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Old 08-19-2008   #81
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
I hate to argue (ok that's a lie), but umm....

1. I don't know that sage has been blind sided like Schaub was against SD. I dont' know that there are that many people that get up and walk away from that. That hit by Worthless we can argue about that all day, but that was ferocious.

2. What does that have to do with who's a better QB? Schaub has a better arm and is more precise. Accuracy and precision are two different things. Schaub puts his receivers in a better position to run after the catch. I keep saying this (and those that know me from the old board know how many times I've watched every game they've played in over and over), and its true. Schaub isn't GREAT at it. Sage is BELOW AVERAGE at it. The numbers beared it out when I looked at it.

3. Even with Vick (who I can't stand, but at least he was a very talented player) ATL was looking for ways to get Schaub on the field. Sage has also been a backup to should have been backups like Fiedler. He has been behind the following quality NFL QBs in his career: Ray Lucas, Jay Fiedler, Brian Greise, AJ Feeley, Gus Frerotte, Tony Banks, Jeff George and Kent Grahm. That's not to say that automatically disqualifies him from being a starter but your premise that they were both career backups is WAY oversimplifying. Vick COULD actually start for all but a handful of teams in this league. His athletic ability was so enticing that there was no way (ok well one way apparently) that he was not going to be the starter.

4. Kubes didn't think Sage could start. If he did, we don't make the deal for Sage. I have yet to see anything remotely consistant about Sage, with or without AJ on the field. I think he is the consumate Commander Cody. He is great at getting guys hyped up, and can come in and play well for a few games at a time, but long term, his tendancy to throw across his body, when he doesn't have a great arm to begin with, as well as his tendancy to throw off balance, results in passes that are off target, catchable (or interceptable) but off target. I did a comparison of the two and their YPC after the catch average a while back, and even with AJ playing with Sage more than Schaub Schaubs was a decent ammount higher. I'll look it up and see if I can find the spreadsheet and post it. Now do you think that's because we call more curls just because Sage is in the game? If it is, is that because we think he needs a wider target? I don't know the answer to the questions, but Schaub made AD look like AJ lite. Sage not so much.

Mike
Great post Mike.


Much As I really respect some of the guys in the club....there is little in talking sense to the Sage for President club.
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Old 08-19-2008   #82
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
He's too busy in that 'other' thread....
So that was him on that bench?
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Old 08-19-2008   #83
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

i guess i have to weigh in now.


First i want to say Schaub will be a good quarterback. I think he has more poise than Sage (less prone to mistakes, and makes better decisions). I even think he deserves to start. But as for the arguments against Sage:

"He is a career backup". This is a crappy argument which has been dispelled numerous times. Sage was better than Carr as I think we can all agree, Sage should have started for this team in 2006. Also the Vikings wanted Sage as their starter, but Kubiak believed Sage was too valuable to give up for a mere 3rd round pick (what does that tell you?). Sage could start for many teams in this league. In fact, he when he did get playing time for the Texans we did very well. The best win of the season last year came against the Denver Broncos, a game that Sage started (and finished). So it is clear, Sage can be an effective starter.

Sage plays kind of wild, he will force balls into coverage, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesnt. He is raw and not as consistent as Matt. Sage's is best asset in my opinion is how he plays in the 4th quarter. He shows tremendous heart and tenacity and really steps it up when the game is on the line. And it is pretty much indisputable that he has the ability to lead the offense. I wont bother posting Sage's stats next to Commander Cody's again, but the difference between the two is clear.
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Old 08-19-2008   #84
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by Mr PC View Post
I have seen many posts similar to this, all because one preseason performance. Schaub did look good vs the Saints playing the "lets throw at Jason David" game. But now everybody is jumping on his nuts because of one preseason game? If Sage happened to look better than Matt, the first thing I would expect to hear is "its just a preseason game." Now people are talking about Matt as a top 5 QB and comparing him to Tom Brady because he had a good preseason game.
Well, at least Schaub did have a 'top' 5 QB type of game- no sacks/no interceptions/2 tds/high completion percentage/high QB rating/high ypc and ypa. I still remember the days when the best thing we said about our starting qb's results were, 'it's only pre-season.'
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Old 08-19-2008   #85
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

You said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post
You do realize that the Texans are leading the NFL in passer rating thru two games right?
So I said,
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Now, I'm scared to look, but would you happen to know who has taken the most snaps through those two games??
then you said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Probably Sage. Not really getting your point here. Both QB's are far superior to Carr.
If Sage took most of the snaps, I think that's a point for Sage.
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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Yes, Carr had a good completion percentage that last year. Hell, my Grandma would have completed 75% of those quick outs, screen passes, and dump offs to the RB's.
another point I'm trying to make...... the system & the coach has a lot to do with those numbers....... maybe we could get some Jake Plummer stats to better illustrate.
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Originally Posted by Porky View Post

OTOH, Schaub and Sage had one of the longest YPA rate in the NFL last year, and still maintaned a high completion percentage.

Frankly, if you think there is some correalition between the Sage/Schaub regime, and the Carr regime then I might suggest some strong meds.
Again, my point was that the numbers you first mentioned went up when Kubiak had Carr......

so far, neither Sage or Schaub has shown to be much more than a "system QB" & right now, I don't think there's that much difference between the two.
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Old 08-19-2008   #86
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If Sage took most of the snaps, I think that's a point for Sage.
Actually, through 2 games, I don't consider that a very good gauge.

In the first game, the plan was to play Matt and most of the first string for a quarter, then Sage and the second string for 2 quarters, and then 3rd string for a quarter.

In the second game, the plan was to play Matt for a quarter and a half, then Sage for a quarter and a half, and finally whatever was left was going to go to Brink. So, that's 2 quarters of work for Matt, 3.5 quarters for Sage, and then the leftovers for Shane and Alex.

If Sage had most of the snaps with the first team, then I'd agree but he's not taking the first team snaps.

I think it's standard for the 2nd string guy to get more snaps in preseason.
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Old 08-19-2008   #87
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

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Originally Posted by Mr PC View Post
i guess i have to weigh in now.


First i want to say Schaub will be a good quarterback. I think he has more poise than Sage (less prone to mistakes, and makes better decisions). I even think he deserves to start. But as for the arguments against Sage:

"He is a career backup". This is a crappy argument which has been dispelled numerous times. Sage was better than Carr as I think we can all agree, Sage should have started for this team in 2006. Also the Vikings wanted Sage as their starter, but Kubiak believed Sage was too valuable to give up for a mere 3rd round pick (what does that tell you?). Sage could start for many teams in this league. In fact, he when he did get playing time for the Texans we did very well. The best win of the season last year came against the Denver Broncos, a game that Sage started (and finished). So it is clear, Sage can be an effective starter.

Sage plays kind of wild, he will force balls into coverage, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesnt. He is raw and not as consistent as Matt. Sage's is best asset in my opinion is how he plays in the 4th quarter. He shows tremendous heart and tenacity and really steps it up when the game is on the line. And it is pretty much indisputable that he has the ability to lead the offense. I wont bother posting Sage's stats next to Commander Cody's again, but the difference between the two is clear.

Well apparently we disagree.

Quote:
Also the Vikings wanted Sage as their starter, but Kubiak believed Sage was too valuable to give up for a mere 3rd round pick (what does that tell you?).
There's no evidence that they wanted thim to be their starter. They wanted him to push Jackson. If they wanted him to be their starter, if they felt he was their guy then they are idiots if they didn't offer a second round pick. If you see a guy on another roster that you feel is ready to come in and start at a skill position that you have a need you make that move; Every day and twice on Sunday.

To speak to the second part of that point; That doesn't mean he saw him as a starter. Schaubs durability is at least somewhat in question. I don't know if you chalk it up to two hellacious hits, the need to prepare better in the offseason, having a glass jaw, or a little of all of them but you certainly need to have a viable backup. Considering Sage is the only other person on our roster who has thrown an NFL pass (to my knowledge) you don't get rid of him cheaply. Personally, I would have done the deal anyways. But if your argument is that one team wanted him bad enough to give a 3rd round pick, considering the shape of many of the leagues QB position, that doesn't really mean much. There are at least 5-7 teams who are in a terrible position at the QB spot. Whey wasn't there a great auction held for Sage's services?

I think the reason there was no auction, is that most NFL GMs/Coaches don't see him as a long term starter. He might be able to step in and fill the shoes for a season but that's about it.


At best, he's a journeyman starter (see Jon Kitna) at worst hes a good backup. I think those are the best and worst you do with him. That DOES make him valuable. But honestly, I want better than Jon Kitna out of my QB position. Now somebody will post his stats. And they were good. Very good at times. But it was always on a team that went nowhere. He didn't really stay anywhere very long and his career has been marred by long stretches of bad play followed by long stretches of good play, you just never know what you're going to get. Could he Dilfer his way to a SB? Maybe.

Its kind of a catch 22 in his case as I see it. He is a great backup (where I think his actual value lies) because he is such a competitor. He fires guys up. He doesn't wilt. He takes chances. You need that from a guy when your guy goes down. At the same time, he's not the most physically gifted guy on the team. If he took fewer chances, played within himself a little more, he might be exactly that, Dilfer.


Quote:
Sage plays kind of wild, he will force balls into coverage, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesnt. He is raw and not as consistent as Matt. Sage's is best asset in my opinion is how he plays in the 4th quarter. He shows tremendous heart and tenacity and really steps it up when the game is on the line. And it is pretty much indisputable that he has the ability to lead the offense.
See above. You're right about the last sentence. The problem is you never know which way the offense is going to be led when he's in. The fact that he's still raw, 6 years in, might be an issue. I personally don't want a guy who forces the ball into coverage very often. Unless my guy is Manning or Farveesque that is. Sage has a Manning mentality with a Wurfel arm. Care to give a reference for the 4th qtr bit? I can think of good and bad 4ths.

I'd have done Sage for a 3rd in a heartbeat to be honest. Another player like slaton at a different position? A guy who might push to start by the end of the year? But you and I feel differently about Sage. I don't want him as my starter. Not long term. If I had a young QB I was grooming to start, then I'd be ok with it but I don't want him as my plan for the next 5 years because I think that would be 5 years of just above mediocre QB play.

Wow that was longer than I thought. Maybe I need offseason football counseling.

Mike
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Old 08-20-2008   #88
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

Nicely done, Mike!

Even though I think I would value Sage a bit higher than that.
He's getting a bit closer to Garcia, especially in the overachiever mode.

Sage's roll-out move to the left should rank among the best quarter in the league, at the least.

I think he'll do better with a standard pro O-line, in which he can afford another 1/4 of a sec to make the read.
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Old 08-20-2008   #89
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post


Again, my point was that the numbers you first mentioned went up when Kubiak had Carr......
Only the completion percentage, the rest wasn't even close.

Last edited by ReliantTexan; 08-20-2008 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 08-20-2008   #90
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
How you can watch the two QBs and come to that conclusion is beyond understanding...

Now, regarding taking a hit, that's a different story. However, a decision on that doesn't need to be made until after 2009. Until then, both Qbs are signed and no decisions regarding their contracts need be made. So, who cares who can take a hit better: Play the better QB until he gets hurt... then, play Rosenfels.

Schaub seems to get hurt quite a bit son. Riddle me this Batman:

1. How many games did Schaub miss last season?

2. Of the games Schaub started (and completed) last season, how many did the Texans win?

3. How many games did Rosenfels start last season?

4. Of the games Rosenfels started how many resulted in a Texans victory?


Do you mean to imply that in the games in which Rosenfels played he DIDN'T take any hits? I SERIOUSLY beg to differ.
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Old 08-20-2008   #91
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

I'm not dining on Crow just yet. I still don't have any faith in Schaub AND I think the man is injury prone. You muff-huggas can make this an "attack Dread-head" forum all you like (So this is what it's like to be Porky?) But I stand by my earlier statements.
And you're all overlooking something...Looking good in preseason isn't worth a steaming pile of Toro chips when the regular season starts. Scoring a Touch Down over a guy who'll be a baggage handler next week means about as much as being the prettiest girl in BearCreek, Montana (population 83) Who cares? It doesn't mean shhhhhht.


I'm Dread-Head...and I approve this message.

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Old 08-20-2008   #92
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by Dread-Head View Post
Schaub seems to get hurt quite a bit son. Riddle me this Batman:

1. How many games did Schaub miss last season?

2. Of the games Schaub started (and completed) last season, how many did the Texans win?

3. How many games did Rosenfels start last season?

4. Of the games Rosenfels started how many resulted in a Texans victory?


Do you mean to imply that in the games in which Rosenfels played he DIDN'T take any hits? I SERIOUSLY beg to differ.
OK. First of all, you broke this complex question down into four parts for one reason. Either you lack confidence in the ability of the members in this forum to follow subject object agreement, or your ability to maintain it while constructing a sentence. I'm not sure which. Care to enlighten?


Ok that was a bad joke made by a tired man a 2:30 when he should be home in bed.


Seriously though.

If you don't believe Schaub's the answer, that's fine. I haven't been basing this on one game. I've based it on the time I've watched each play (which is considerable since I record and rewatch every game several times). I'm basing it on what I see the receivers first move is after catching the ball (are they gathering balance or making a move). I'm basing it on the exhaustive statistical analysis I've done, trying to eliminate useless data and extract something meaningful.


If you want, go look at the difference in the quality of games they've won. I'm not going to walk through it or dig up spreadsheets again. There is a difference. When the stros were going through their little winning streak before the allstar break, everyone was talking about "oooh, ahhh, they're better than we thought". Yeah, then we started playing good teams. Anyone seen what people've done to them? Maybe the same thing applies here.

As for the hits they took. I was at a sports bar when Schaub took the hit vs SD. That hit elicited a collective "ooooooooooo" from everyone in the bar. Twice. VS Tenn, that was a nasty, dirty play. No Sage hasn't been subjected to either type of play. Not that I recall. he's been hit, everybody gets hit. Not every QB in the league gets hit like Schaub got hit. That hit in SD was one of the worst headshots I can remember.

Oh, and theres never anything personal. I'm not coming out and attacking you or whatever (from your last post in this thread). I'm just trying to have intelligent discussion (sometimes) with fellow Texans fans. I've been that way from the start. If I thought Sage was the answer, I'd say so. I just don't.

Mike
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Old 08-20-2008   #93
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

Some Texans fans can come across inequivocally confident in their thought process [See LINK]:shots:
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Old 08-20-2008   #94
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Default Re: Chomp Chomp Chomp

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
We can also say that he tried to turn and run because he didn't think that the ball would be tipped. That is, if the ball wasn't tipped, it probably would have been a big play.
Guys are athletic in the NFL...Sometimes they get their hands on passes...

I'm pretty sure the recievers coach didn't cut him any slack for dropping that pass because "it was tipped"...
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Old 08-20-2008   #95
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
Well apparently we disagree.
In Response to the career back-up.... how do you explain Kurt Warner, Doug Flutie, and Trent Dilfer? True Journeymen, who have led teams to success.

If you are convinced Matt is all that and a bag of chips, then that's that. Others aren't quite convinced, and would have preferred that we drafted someone to groom, while Sage started. NO one believes Sage is the long term answer, we believe he is a good stop gap, while we search for the long term answer.

Personally, I would have rather we drafted a guy to groom, right now, we're wasting our time, & Bob's money to prove that Schaub is as good as Sage, to date, that's all that we've seen.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
But if your argument is that one team wanted him bad enough to give a 3rd round pick, considering the shape of many of the leagues QB position, that doesn't really mean much. There are at least 5-7 teams who are in a terrible position at the QB spot. Whey wasn't there a great auction held for Sage's services?
I believe it's mostly because of Age. Why should a team spend a second rounder on a guy who is just going to get them by, especially if he's going into his 8th season??

Same reason Kurt Warner is still in Arizona, and Dante Culpepper can't find a job. There aren't any teams out there, in need of a QB, that is on the bubble. Where the QB is that final piece. All the teams in QB trouble, need work on both sides of the ball.

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I think the reason there was no auction, is that most NFL GMs/Coaches don't see him as a long term starter. He might be able to step in and fill the shoes for a season but that's about it.
And while we are on the subject, when we offered two 2nd round picks to Atlanta, how many teams were we fighting off?? From what I recall, we were the only team that made any offer whatsoever.

Am I wrong??
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I don't want him as my starter. Not long term. If I had a young QB I was grooming to start, then I'd be ok with it but I don't want him as my plan for the next 5 years because I think that would be 5 years of just above mediocre QB play.

Mike
I don't know about mediocre... I think Sage has just as much ability to excel in this system as Schaub..... I honestly don't see Schaub's ceiling being any higher than Sage's right now.



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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Nicely done, Mike!

Even though I think I would value Sage a bit higher than that.
He's getting a bit closer to Garcia, especially in the overachiever mode.

Sage's roll-out move to the left should rank among the best quarter in the league, at the least.

I think he'll do better with a standard pro O-line, in which he can afford another 1/4 of a sec to make the read.
The Denver WCO is ideal for a mobile QB.... Sage is more mobile than Schaub, and he's better on the run..... if he's going to do better anywhere, it's going to be here.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
If you don't believe Schaub's the answer, that's fine. I haven't been basing this on one game. I've based it on the time I've watched each play (which is considerable since I record and rewatch every game several times). I'm basing it on what I see the receivers first move is after catching the ball (are they gathering balance or making a move). I'm basing it on the exhaustive statistical analysis I've done, trying to eliminate useless data and extract something meaningful.
Now, I see the problem. You and I are looking at two different guys. The Matt Schaub I'm talking about, is the guy who starts for the Houston Texans. The guy you're talking about is on some other team.

Matt Schaub's game doesn't resemble your description at all. Last year, there was not one catch, not one throw that matches your description, and in the last two preseason games, he's thrown nothing but hitches & crossing patterns.

Not once hitting anyone in stride. I'll go back and watch the game again, I could be wrong. But the things you mention, are the things I'm looking for, and I'm not seeing.

What did you think of that first pass to Davis, where he was wide open, running an out route. Davis had to stretch to dig it out of the dirt, and his momentum took him out of bounds. If the Matt Schaub you are describing had put that ball like you said he can, Andre could have turned that upfield for at least another 10 yards.

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As for the hits they took. I was at a sports bar when Schaub took the hit vs SD. That hit elicited a collective "ooooooooooo" from everyone in the bar. Twice. VS Tenn, that was a nasty, dirty play. No Sage hasn't been subjected to either type of play. Not that I recall. he's been hit, everybody gets hit. Not every QB in the league gets hit like Schaub got hit. That hit in SD was one of the worst headshots I can remember.
I'll agree with you on two of those hits. The one against San Diego, regardless how my QB felt, If I were Kubiak, and I just spent two 2nd round picks on him, I wouldn't have let him back in that game.

The first one against Tennessee...... I'm good with that one. but the second one....

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If I thought Sage was the answer, I'd say so. I just don't.

Mike
That's understandable, and in a message board thread, you'll actually have two/three or more arguments going at the same time.

I don't believe Sage is the answer either, but I don't think Schaub has proven to be worth what we gave up. Think about that.

Let's just say I'm right, for the sake of this argument, and Sage performs just as well as Matt will in the next season or so...... with those two second rounders, we could have had another DE to replace Weaver/Colvin.... we could have had Jamaal Charles, instead of Slaton, or whoever you liked in the second.....

We'd have added another playmaker on Defense, another playmaker on offense.... and possibly have our QB of the future in the wings.

Now I'm not writing Matt Schaub off. I don't want Sage to start, if Matt is healthy. I want Matt to have every opportunity to separate himself from Sage. But as much as I want that, I'm not seeing it.
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Old 08-20-2008   #96
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The Denver WCO is ideal for a mobile QB.... Sage is more mobile than Schaub
More mobile, sure, but so was David Carr. Schaub is plenty mobile and has a better pocket presence. See clip below.

Quote:
Last year, there was not one catch, not one throw that matches your description, and in the last two preseason games, he's thrown nothing but hitches & crossing patterns.

Not once hitting anyone in stride. I'll go back and watch the game again, I could be wrong. But the things you mention, are the things I'm looking for, and I'm not seeing.
Not one huh? LOL Link

Cracks me up comparing Schaub to Sage on deep balls and then nitpicking placement. Sage has been much less likely to complete the pass at all and has been assisted greatly by WR adjustments. Sage completion % 21+ yards--33%. Schaub completion % 21+ yards--44% (which is actually slightly better than Brady and Manning although both had many more attempts).
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Old 08-20-2008   #97
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Default Re: Q

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.... Sage is more mobile than Schaub, and he's better on the run.....
That's akin to saying a Three-toed Sloth is faster than Garden Snail..
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Old 08-20-2008   #98
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Our first QB was a disaster, from day one, so I'm glad we didn't go the 'groom' route all over again. Schaub has already shown he can work the pocket/make good decisions/has good ball placement/will throw the ball down field, etc. ...so has Sage. And, both are outstanding team players who do not blame everyone around them for their failures.

I feel good about our QB position, and believe we can win with either one on the field. Between them, remember, we had 24 tds last year-- a 50% increase over DC's best year...and, the sacks, where did they go??!!
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Old 08-20-2008   #99
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Default Re: Q

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
And while we are on the subject, when we offered two 2nd round picks to Atlanta, how many teams were we fighting off?? From what I recall, we were the only team that made any offer whatsoever.

Am I wrong??
I would say yes. The reason we offered two seconds, is he had been offered the highest tender possible. We were actually bidding against everyone the following year. When he would hit the free agent market, and worse than giving up two second rounders, it would have cost us cap space for the next 5 years to sign him.


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In Response to the career back-up.... how do you explain Kurt Warner, Doug Flutie, and Trent Dilfer? True Journeymen, who have led teams to success.
No offense, this is the worst most ignorant argument I've ever seen you put forth. By that logic, we should go out and just sign everyone's backup. I usually like reading what you write, and respect your ability to debate, but you're falling short. This is almost a case of the exception that proves the rule. For every Kurt Warner, there are 100 Scott Mitchells. (DET backup went to Miami, was terrible). And you didn't really even name the best example. Steve Young was your knight in shining armor.

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Now, I see the problem. You and I are looking at two different guys. The Matt Schaub I'm talking about, is the guy who starts for the Houston Texans. The guy you're talking about is on some other team.

Matt Schaub's game doesn't resemble your description at all. Last year, there was not one catch, not one throw that matches your description, and in the last two preseason games, he's thrown nothing but hitches & crossing patterns.

Not once hitting anyone in stride. I'll go back and watch the game again, I could be wrong. But the things you mention, are the things I'm looking for, and I'm not seeing.

What did you think of that first pass to Davis, where he was wide open, running an out route. Davis had to stretch to dig it out of the dirt, and his momentum took him out of bounds. If the Matt Schaub you are describing had put that ball like you said he can, Andre could have turned that upfield for at least another 10 yards.
As the season wore on, he lost effectiveness.. maybe due to injuries. But from what I saw of him in atlanta, and what I saw early in the season, you must not have started watching the same team you are right.

Mike
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Old 08-20-2008   #100
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Default Re: Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
More mobile, sure, but so was David Carr. Schaub is plenty mobile and has a better pocket presence. See clip below.
But David Sucked......
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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post


Not one huh? LOL Link
OUch........ maybe not one was a little strong.


Damn he looked good in that clip. Which does more for Matt Schaub, than his play in the preseason, which is what this thread(and argument) is based on.

He hasn't done anything in the last two preseason games, that trumps that highlight clip.
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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Cracks me up comparing Schaub to Sage on deep balls and then nitpicking placement. Sage has been much less likely to complete the pass at all and has been assisted greatly by WR adjustments. Sage completion % 21+ yards--33%. Schaub completion % 21+ yards--44% (which is actually slightly better than Brady and Manning although both had many more attempts).
I never said Sage had better placement.... I just said Schaub needs work..... your stats may very well prove me wrong. But even in your highlight clip, I only saw one, where the reciever didn't have to slow down, turn around, or make a heck of a jump.

That one touchdown, where AJ had to turn around, and pick the ball out of the air, I'll agree that was exactly where that ball needed to be, and there are some others where that is the case.

And I'll point out, I'm not nitpicking his placement, another poster said he was better at it, than I thought he was. I don't think you can count his ball placement as a strength just yet. That's all I'm saying.





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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
I would say yes. The reason we offered two seconds, is he had been offered the highest tender possible.
He wasn't offered anything, by any body..... the Falcons placed the tender on him.
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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post

No offense, this is the worst most ignorant argument I've ever seen you put forth.
It's hard not to take offense to language like that.
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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post

By that logic, we should go out and just sign everyone's backup.
I'm not following that logic. You're saying Sage is a career backup, therefore he isn't capable of accomplishing anything worth while..... I disagreed, and gave you examples of guys who fell into the same career backup category, yet they found lots of success in the NFL.

My point, just because he was a backup for three other teams doesn't mean he isn't good enough to be a starter.

is not the same as

Every backup in the NFL is worthy of being a starter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
I usually like reading what you write, and respect your ability to debate, but you're falling short. This is almost a case of the exception that proves the rule. For every Kurt Warner, there are 100 Scott Mitchells. (DET backup went to Miami, was terrible). And you didn't really even name the best example. Steve Young was your knight in shining armor.
Well, my point is that there are exceptions to the rule. I'm not even saying that Sage is that exception, just saying that there are exceptions to the rule.

& I guess I'm a little off on my Steve Young history, but was he ever considered a career backup?? Playing in NFL Europe, the Canadian League, or Arena Footbal??
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