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Old 08-11-2008   #81
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I remember watching Steve Deberg in Kansas City run for 70 yards on a 4th and one bootleg. I expect there will be a number of times when Schaub gets 10-15 yards on bootlegs because the defense overpursued the zone stretch.

I'm concerned about the running game also. However, if the QBs are bootlegging outside of containment and we're getting 15 yards on our end arounds this season then that means our running game is being respected and accomplishing what last year's didn't.

I'm bothered by the negativity that seems pervasive following a preseason game that we won, where I saw a lot to be encouraged about. Certainly, it's a bummer that Green went lame on the first play. However, he was the only injury and it was a minor one.

What I saw was a team that physically overmatched the Broncos. We committed 3 penalties while the Broncos were desparately clutching and grabbing all game long.

It was our first attempt at cut blocking. The first time the RBs saw it in live action and had to react to it. So, I'm fine if we improve the next two weeks-which I would expect.

My only conern, frankly, is the fact that we never covered the flats. It didn't matter whether it was 1st, 2nd, or 3rd string guys, the flats were constantly exposed. That reminds me of my lack of faith in our Defensive Coordiator. I'm trying to convince myself that they weren't interested in adjusting in game since it's the preseason. But, I am worried about that.

Finally, I'm shocked that you and some of the other knowledge posters aren't raving about some of the performances of our young guys:

Butler and Frye were outstanding...

Fletcher looked great- how many of us really expected him to look so good?

Barber and Adibi looked good.

Brown was solid.

A lot to be encouraged about, yet the focus seems to be on the negative- which I didn't see a whole lot of.
Yeah, and eventually, Denver did pretty well shutting down the bootleg. And in the regular season, nobody will respect the bootleg if the Texans can't run.

And personally, I don't get too excited about rookies not sucking so much in the preseason. I mean, I am happy when they play well, but the regular season is different and more complex. That Brown didn't look awful against the Broncos is nice, but it says little about how he will do against the Steelers on the road.

The running game has been a plague on this offense, and Green makes the decision making harder. Do you keep a guy who might have been your best running back, or do you decide that he is not a reliable option for the season?

Then you have Chris Brown who has his own injury problems, and a bunch of young guys who might get your quarterback killed and are unproven (a bunch of Wali Lundy's--not saying that they play the same game but present some of the problems for the team that relying Lundy did).

I was just looking for something. Something to be encouraged about with the running game. But yeah, it is still early.

It's the old wound. We watched a game with a scary secondary and ungood running game.
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Old 08-11-2008   #82
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by wolf123 View Post
I think its its unfair to judge chris taylor off of just last nights performance b/c the whole line struggled to get any movement in the first half.

Are WR's are very good. I hope that david anderson's good play lights a fire under Jacoby jones.

Earl Cochrans play impressed me and I liked his hustle. the whole second DL unit got it handed to them all game.

I'm likeing the depth at CB and really wish I could have seen molden out there.
Would you guys quit banging on JJ. Good Christ. The guy is under enough pressure. He's a good prospect and if you cut the guy a little slack he's going to be ok. He's not John Taylor in a box. He's a raw prospect who's body went mushroom cloud when he was a sophomore in college. They told you when they drafted the guy...he's raw. Raw means raw. He's still learning. He's going to make errors. Might as well relax and enjoy his development. When Kubiak's lip is quivering in the presser when he's talking about you, you're in the dog house for sure.

David Anderson is what he is. A smurf with hands of gold , smart, runs great routes and unafraid to go where angels wouldn't tread. When the coach smiles as soon as your name is mentioned in the post game interview...that there thingy is a lock to make the team.

Last point...all of you guys telling me that J.J. is going to beat out Walter...by the bye week, Walter had three pancake blocks Saturday....It's going to happen eventually. But I believe some of you are vastly exaggerating the gap between the two. J.J. is still a work in progress.
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Last edited by threetoedpete; 08-11-2008 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 08-11-2008   #83
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system...
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Old 08-11-2008   #84
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).

Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk

All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.
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Old 08-11-2008   #85
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post

Butler and Frye were outstanding...

Fletcher looked great- how many of us really expected him to look so good?

Barber and Adibi looked good.

Brown was solid.

A lot to be encouraged about, yet the focus seems to be on the negative- which I didn't see a whole lot of.
IMO, you disdain for Salaam is corrupting you mind. LOL!

Yes, Butler had a decent game. To say Frye was outstanding is just laughable. I watched the game again yesterday and came away with the same feeling about Frye. The dude was being controlled by Dlinemen while being shoved into the backfield.

IMO, he'll be lucky to make the 53.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system...
I think the same could be said for the rest of the RB's. The blocking was less than desirable too.
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Old 08-11-2008   #86
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).

Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk

All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.
Additional Negative:
1) Television announcers who were too stupid to understand that the run by Matt Turk was a busted play, and not an intentional fake. I don't know if it's worse that they couldn't tell by simply looking that it wasn't planned, or that they apparently didn't realize that you don't practice fake punts on 4th and twenty by running your punter up the gut in a preseason game (or regular season game, or practice, or coaches daydreams, or anywhere else).

Additional Positive:
1) No turnovers by the offense. Despite the early comments on Slaton's fumbling problems, the only turnover of any kind we saw was on a special teams play. So far in '08, we're +1 in the turnover dept.
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Old 08-11-2008   #87
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

I don't think the O-line did that great a job run blocking. It's still early, they have new guys, and Gibbs still has to get things refined. So I am not overly concerned. It is the first preseason game, after all. That said, the only back that showed me anything exciting was Slaton. Walker is not a starting-caliber RB in the NFL, and I'm not even sure he has a place in the NFL. Taylor didn't have much to work with, but I didn't see the quickness I would have liked to see. Slaton had nice quickness, speed when he could use it, and didn't seem too hesitant for a rookie. I don't think he could be a feature back, but if he could play himself into 10-15 touches a game, in varying capacities, he could be a game-changer, I think. He's still a bit away from that, but I can see the potential.

EDIT to add -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system...
- That's what I'm getting at. I agree.

I was actually happy with Jacoby Jones on one hand - he seemed to have his confidence back and was really trying to make something happen. That was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone. On the other hand, that was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone - reckless and dumb. He has to secure the ball. I'm sure Kubiak will get that nailed down. Jacoby Jones with a swagger is a good Jacoby Jones, if Kubiak can get his mind right.

Mario is going to be as good as he wants to be. I don't really think anyone can consistently stop him.

Dominique Barber is FAST. I like that guy.

I agree with TC's take on Okam. I think he could be a good project at DT, and I would like to see him make the team.

Further edit - the D-Line was getting such good pressure early that the Broncos started running those flat-pass plays and a screen or two. We did nothing to defend that, and it hurt us. I think the coaches will get that part sorted out, but the pressure from the D-Line really made me happy.
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Last edited by eriadoc; 08-11-2008 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 08-11-2008   #88
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).

Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk

All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.
What about Mario? Did you see him push Clady into the rb twice and completely blow sh*t up along the line?
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Old 08-11-2008   #89
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
IMO, you disdain for Salaam is corrupting you mind. LOL!

Yes, Butler had a decent game. To say Frye was outstanding is just laughable. I watched the game again yesterday and came away with the same feeling about Frye. The dude was being controlled by Dlinemen while being shoved into the backfield.

IMO, he'll be lucky to make the 53.



I think the same could be said for the rest of the RB's. The blocking was less than desirable too.

Frye was very good at the point of attack, he never got beat by his man during pass protection, and he was excellent blocking for the running game on the back side. So, I'm not sure what you're looking at.

I'm not a fan of Chris White's game either, but that doesn't stop me from seeing that Eslinger was lousy. The fact that I don't think Salaam is good has nothing to do with my assessment of Frye.
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Old 08-11-2008   #90
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.

Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:

Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?

Before you jump me, think about it.

Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.
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Old 08-11-2008   #91
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.

Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:

Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?

Before you jump me, think about it.

Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.
I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.
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Old 08-11-2008   #92
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.
THAT's when we run.

It would be great if we had the running attack to burn clock when we are ahead in the 4th and all that, but we don't. Until we get one, we will pass or we will punt.
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Old 08-11-2008   #93
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

We have a rookie LT...We don't want to get our QB's killed....As a team we still aren't great at pass protection...We've gotten better at it, but not good enough to say it's a strength...

Our QB's both have tendencies to make dumb throws...

Running the ball wears down opposing defenses and keeps our defense fresh...Passing a lot increases the likelihood of turnovers...
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Old 08-11-2008   #94
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.

Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:

Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?

Before you jump me, think about it.

Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.
I think we're focused on the run this off-season because it was last year's glaring weakness. Kubiak believes running the ball is essential to success. I don't think he believes being run-dominant is the only way to win. I expect we will throw quite a bit but it's important to the overall success of the team that we can capably run the ball- that will keep the QBs healthy and making our passing game more effective. Balance is the goal. I think we'll run more, run more effectively and also throw for more yards and TDs this season if Kubiak gets his wish.
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Old 08-11-2008   #95
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Well, hopefully we will get a running game going, because I do agree that it's very important. I just don't like to stick with things too much that aren't working.
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Old 08-11-2008   #96
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

OK, so I went back and I was able to watch the first half for the first time.

Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.

I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.

On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.

On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.

On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)

So I don't think we're that far away.
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Old 08-11-2008   #97
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Taylor sounds like Carr, except he doesn't run out of bounds as much.
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Old 08-11-2008   #98
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.
That's what draw plays are for and I'm not thinking full blown Run & Shoot... I'm thinking more West Coast offense where curls and outs and short passes to the backs are like long handoffs. A passing game based on mainly 3 or 5 step drops will minimize the rush.

I'm not pushing any panic buttons. I'm just saying our running attack isn't - and won't be -a strength without a stud RB we can depend on. The only studs we can depend on on offense are in our passing game.

I guess I should look on the bright side. We still moved the ball up and down the field with our 3rd, 4th, and 5th RBs. Not well, but well enough.
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Old 08-11-2008   #99
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
OK, so I went back and I was able to watch the first half for the first time.

Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.

I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.

On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.

On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.

On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)

So I don't think we're that far away.
I watched the NFLN replay of the game and saw the same things you did. Missed blocks by JJ (man he looked bad on that play) and Brown on a couple of plays. And I saw Taylor make bad reads on some plays too. If Taylor had Walker's ability to set up his blocking, he could be special.

Maybe when Taylor sees the vid of the game he'll see his mistakes.
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Old 08-11-2008   #100
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
That's what draw plays are for and I'm not thinking full blown Run & Shoot... I'm thinking more West Coast offense where curls and outs and short passes to the backs are like long handoffs. A passing game based on mainly 3 or 5 step drops will minimize the rush.

I'm not pushing any panic buttons. I'm just saying our running attack isn't - and won't be -a strength without a stud RB we can depend on. The only studs we can depend on on offense are in our passing game.

I guess I should look on the bright side. We still moved the ball up and down the field with our 3rd, 4th, and 5th RBs. Not well, but well enough.
Isn't that what we had with YKW?
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