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Old 08-10-2008   #21
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

My take on the game.

First and for most, it was just a preseason game. This means the play books were limited and the coach's were looking to work in new plays, schemes, and coverages.

That being said:

Our Pass blocking looked terrific. D.B. won me over to the point were he he gets initials rather than calling him by his full name, ala AJ, Drob, OD, ect..

On the other side of that, our run blocking was horrible. I know a lot of you guys are be critical of the running backs, but in the zone scheme there should be holes. There were no holes and the Broncos LBs roamed free all night.

Schaub looked sharp. He only played one series, 5 passes, 4 completions. Nothing really to evaluate. He did good.

Sage looked good. But Anderson made him look good.

Speaking of Anderson, that corner come back catch was down right ESPN highlight real material. Good Gawd! Anderson just moved up to the #4 spot in my book. Jacoby, you just moved down and barely hanging on to this team. If he runs back wards again during punt returns next week he should be immediately cut.

Speaking of getting cut, Green needs to go. What is it that Kubiak says? You have to be on the field to help this football team win? I remember last year a caller called 610 and kind of grilled Green about his knee and after the call Mark said, So your not in Green Bay anymore.....No, no he's not. His free pass was last year. Taylor did what he was told, one cut and go, which he did, only there was no where to go to. Walker looked good. I like the fact that he put his nose down and crashed into a defender. That was my problem with him last year, he would rather go out of bounds than make contact. Slaton impressed me greatly but it was against scrubs. I would love to see what he could do in the earlier part of games.

Our first team D looked nasty at the start of the game. You could tell the reigns were pulled back a little. If they come out for real like that in the regular season that OH HELL YEAH!!!!

Thats my take.
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Old 08-10-2008   #22
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

I'm not too concerned yet with our running game. This is an entirely new system for them to get to grips with and I saw enough to think there may be light at the end of the tunnel. WRT Green's hamstring: Frustrating I know, but I'm just going to write it off as a freak at this point.

I was very concerned watching the Broncos 2nd possession. The ease with which that drive marched them down the field against our first choice D was disturbing. We've got to find a way of halting these kinds of drive, it hurt us last season and is going to put even more pressure on the offense to score if we can't get average teams like Denver off the field.
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Old 08-10-2008   #23
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Am wondering if our running woes might be a result of the OL trying to "gel" (uggh, I know. I know. I shudder at that word, too).

We have a new center. We have a rookie LT. And they block for Green, Brown, Taylor, Walker, and Slaton--Five guys with different running styles/rhythms. So, this was their first real action against a real opponent.

I'm grasping at the straw of optimism here.

The DL's lack of fire after the first possession is concerning, unless it was planned so as to protect them from injury.

My positives:

1. No major injuries

2. We won, even thought it's a meaningless game

3. D. Anderson, Andre Davis, K. Walter, and Owen Daniels looked good

4. Duane Brown didn't look like a screen door on a submarine

5. Kris Brown and Matt Turk, as well as the ST unit, look ready to go

6. We made two interceptions, which is good for us (since we seem to struggle at getting turnovers for long stretches of time).

7. Few penalties on us


My negatives:

1. Our running game was stagnant, while Denver's was having their way with our D.

2. DL looked hesitant after first series

3. Couldn't seal the deal in the Red Zone

4. Ahman Green, and I don't know what to say on this one. Just tired of it. And I think Chris Brown is going to be the same thing.

5. Turk didn't get the first down. If he doesn't suck it up and get the job done on a measley 4th and 16 run...he needs to get cut. [/sarcasm]
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Old 08-10-2008   #24
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

There's been numerous comments about the sub-par run blocking and the run game in general.

I have a question for those of you who have had the opportunity to really get a grasp on the team this pre-season : I believe I read that our OL'men were not going to cut-block against the Broncos. If this was accurate, just how well does yesterday's game reflect what we will see when we fully implement our running scheme?
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Old 08-10-2008   #25
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
There's been numerous comments about the sub-par run blocking and the run game in general.

I have a question for those of you who have had the opportunity to really get a grasp on the team this pre-season : I believe I read that our OL'men were not going to cut-block against the Broncos. If this was accurate, just how well does yesterday's game reflect what we will see when we fully implement our running scheme?
I definitely saw Brown make a feeble attempt at a cut block.
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Old 08-10-2008   #26
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
There's been numerous comments about the sub-par run blocking and the run game in general.

I have a question for those of you who have had the opportunity to really get a grasp on the team this pre-season : I believe I read that our OL'men were not going to cut-block against the Broncos. If this was accurate, just how well does yesterday's game reflect what we will see when we fully implement our running scheme?
its too early to get all worked up over the running game...but it's a concern since it is unproven. The Bronco running game didn't look much better.
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Old 08-10-2008   #27
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by markn View Post
I'm not too concerned yet with our running game. This is an entirely new system for them to get to grips with and I saw enough to think there may be light at the end of the tunnel. WRT Green's hamstring: Frustrating I know, but I'm just going to write it off as a freak at this point.

I was very concerned watching the Broncos 2nd possession. The ease with which that drive marched them down the field against our first choice D was disturbing. We've got to find a way of halting these kinds of drive, it hurt us last season and is going to put even more pressure on the offense to score if we can't get average teams like Denver off the field.
I just got through rewatching the 1st half. We actually had our 2nd string D line after Denver's first couple of snaps on that posession. However, the 1st string LBs and secondary were still there.

That being said, there are no excuses for our D coordinator this year, many coordinators have done more with less talent. We have the talent to have at least a top 15 defense this year. I better see more 3 and outs starting Sept. 7th.
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Old 08-10-2008   #28
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
Am wondering if our running woes might be a result of the OL trying to "gel" (uggh, I know. I know. I shudder at that word, too).

We have a new center. We have a rookie LT. And they block for Green, Brown, Taylor, Walker, and Slaton--Five guys with different running styles/rhythms. So, this was their first real action against a real opponent.

I'm grasping at the straw of optimism here.

The DL's lack of fire after the first possession is concerning, unless it was planned so as to protect them from injury.

My positives:

1. No major injuries

2. We won, even thought it's a meaningless game

3. D. Anderson, Andre Davis, K. Walter, and Owen Daniels looked good

4. Duane Brown didn't look like a screen door on a submarine

5. Kris Brown and Matt Turk, as well as the ST unit, look ready to go

6. We made two interceptions, which is good for us (since we seem to struggle at getting turnovers for long stretches of time).

7. Few penalties on us


My negatives:

1. Our running game was stagnant, while Denver's was having their way with our D.

2. DL looked hesitant after first series

3. Couldn't seal the deal in the Red Zone

4. Ahman Green, and I don't know what to say on this one. Just tired of it. And I think Chris Brown is going to be the same thing.

5. Turk didn't get the first down. If he doesn't suck it up and get the job done on a measley 4th and 16 run...he needs to get cut. [/sarcasm]
Exactly. I can't believe Kubes didn't bring another punter into camp. lol
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Old 08-10-2008   #29
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.
This is what most impressed me.........his range for such a big guy. As you pointed out, for whatever reason the Broncos were not calling plays down the middle, where we could have probably seen why Okam was our pick. "Disinterested" is not what I came away with. He had limited opportunity to show his wares..........He took advantage of what he was dealt. I would agree, that he should be given some opportunity to take snaps with the "A" team. I believe he could make a lot of those out there "believers."
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Old 08-10-2008   #30
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

I reserve the right to wait after our 3rd preseason game to state my neg's and pos's.
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Old 08-10-2008   #31
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by prostock101 View Post
I definitely saw Brown make a feeble attempt at a cut block.
I believe it was understood by both sides that "cut blocking" was not going to be on the table. When I did think I saw it on a very few plays, they could have been accidentally applied.

Comments on the ZBS by the Texans, for the running game specifically, it was more like the ZERO blocking system. The OL was not fluidly "sweeping" in one direction. It seemed that each lineman had his own agenda separate from the others.........attempts on one-on-one confrontation, which is exactly opposite of the principle of run blocking in the ZBS.

Chris Taylor looked to me, at least in this showing, to be a slow plodding RB. He was very hesitant, and was the furthest thing from a one cut and run RB.

I'm not sure about Slaton as a returner. He seemed to run behind his wall of blockers, but instead of taking adavantage of his quickness and speed breaking laterally when his wall met resistance with their opposition, he chose to run right up their butts.
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Old 08-10-2008   #32
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.
Aww you beat me to it. There were also some outside runs that Okam looked like he had no chance of reaching, but the big dude sprinted after them anyway. Poor fella I thought he was going to be gassed so quick, but he played really well.

On the near-interception by Roberson, Okam was the one that deflected the pass at the line of scrimmage. (It was a fricken sweet acrobatic move)
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Old 08-10-2008   #33
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.

I was at the game using binnoclucars also. Like you, I was focusing on Okam.
I saw him stand up straight, engage his arms with the guard and/or center and waltz horizontally with him, often giving ground and disengage and stop moving towards the ball at the end of the play- I never saw him hustle through the whistle. Also, I never saw him penetrate at the point of attack on a run.

I will say this: He looked better as the game continued. I think I saw three positive plays from him.

1. Maybe 7-8 snaps in, he was blocked one on one with the Denver RG, and got a good push and a hand in the face of the QB.

2. He and a LB? made a tackle for a 3 yard loss. Certainly that was encouraging. However, it looked like a blown blocking assignment.

3. He held his ground well against a double team late in the game.

I've not reviewed the game on DVR yet, and perhaps it's difficult to appreciate the effort of a 340 lb man from my vantage point in section 636.
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Old 08-10-2008   #34
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I believe it was understood by both sides that "cut blocking" was not going to be on the table. When I did think I saw it on a very few plays, they could have been accidentally applied.

Comments on the ZBS by the Texans, for the running game specifically, it was more like the ZERO blocking system. The OL was not fluidly "sweeping" in one direction. It seemed that each lineman had his own agenda separate from the others.........attempts on one-on-one confrontation, which is exactly opposite of the principle of run blocking in the ZBS.

Chris Taylor looked to me, at least in this showing, to be a slow plodding RB. He was very hesitant, and was the furthest thing from a one cut and run RB.

I'm not sure about Slaton as a returner. He seemed to run behind his wall of blockers, but instead of taking adavantage of his quickness and speed breaking laterally when his wall met resistance with their opposition, he chose to run right up their butts.

The backside cut blocking was pretty rough. I wouldn't worry, though, since it was their first attempt at those blocks ever. Brown certainly struggled on the backside in the run game.

Same for the RBs... They're relearning what to key on and how to react. I thought CTaylor was close to breaking a few big runs. I thought he looked fine.

Also, their was a lot of overpursuit last night. Particularly the backside tackle is going to look kind of silly trying to block when the DE and OLB overpursue. That's fine, though, because that's what creates the bootlegs and end arounds.

If you want to see effective cut blocking, watch Frye and Butler in the second half. I'm shocked people aren't raving about their play. They were fantastic... Butler, for instance, played RT for the second quarter and then played LT for the second half. He was solid in pass protection and good in the run game on both sides. Frye came played the entire second half at RT (except one play at LT when Butler limped off) and was good in pass protection and great at the point of attack and on the backside. I thought he played nasty and aggressive. Certainly, he seemed a little unsure on a couple of blitzes. Otherwise, I thought he was fantastic.
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Old 08-10-2008   #35
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Honestly, if our lack of running game is due to the ZBS not being utilized in the denver game, then I'm OK with the yeards and runs we got. If however, our running game creates the same amount of yards when the ZBS is being used, then we're in big trouble.

I guess we won't REALLY know until game 1.
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Old 08-10-2008   #36
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

The fact that we didn't run the full ZBS against Denver pisses me off.

#1) It basically admits that Kubiak and Shanahan agreed not to use cut blocks in order to avoid injuries. This totally corroborates how cheap cut blocks are, and how risky they are to Dl. I don't have a problem with playing within the rules, but by avoiding using cut blocks on Denver DL and against our own guys during practice, we are just asking for other teams to call foul against us.

#2) We waste one of only 3 real opportunities for our OL to practice cut blocking before it counts for real. We only have 4 preseason games, and starters usually don't play the last game. So we have 3 games, and if we don't cut block in the first, that leaves us only 2 real games to practice. If this is the scheme we are running as our main run scheme, I'd like to know that the guys have actually done it before in a game time situation.
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Old 08-10-2008   #37
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

My positives and negatives from the game:

Positives:
1) Matt Schaub looks calm and collected in the pocket. He made good decisions. He made accurate throws that didn't put our WRs in tough situations

2) Our OL looks like it can handle pass blocking pretty well. We had minor pressure most of the night

3) Owen Daniels is going to be a star. He is one of the toughest guys I've ever seen on our roster. He catches everything his way and hangs on through tough hits

4) David Anderson really shined tonight. He made some really tough grabs and showed good awareness throughout the game

5) Mario Williams looked very strong against the run, something that I have considered a weak point of his

6) Our safeties looked competitive. On a couple of plays, I noticed them taking good angles to help deep routes. Lower string guys made some bonehead moves (Barber getting beat by Schefler), but all in all they looked OK

7) We played smart, and didn't get penalized. This won us the game

8) We seemed to take to heart the take care of the football slogan, and didn't commit many turnovers

Negatives

1) Our Dl looked slow and passive after the 1st series. They weren't getting pressure nearly as easily. They did well in the 3rd and 4th quarters occassionally, but I noticed a big drop off after that 1st drive

2) Our LBs disapointed me most of the night. Greenwood took a bad angle, Demeco got beat pretty badly by a TE and he had to resort to a heel trip (luckly a no-call) to save a TD. I was mostly concerned with their pass coverage skill

3) Our defense still doesn't understand how to play the screen or the draw. If it wsn't for penalties, there were a few plays we would have gotten killed with. This isn't year 1 for most of these guys. They bite on the fake too often

4) Our run game was really embarassing. We didn't use our future scheme, which annoys me. Chris Taylor looked terrible. He didn't hit the hole with conviction. He spun around a lot and went no where. Walker looked the best in my opinion. He didn't break off anything long, but he consistently found 2-3 yards, which is better than a bunch of losses followed by a 10 yard gain imo. Slaton did OK for his first NFL actoin, but you can tell he is going to try and stick with his college speed advantage. He tried for the edge and got beat a lot. Walker is the ONLY guy I saw take 1 cut and go.

5) Sage Rosenfels looked uncomfortable. He did pretty well, but he seemed nervous. Although I think Payton looks nervous too, so maybe this is nothing

6) Our WRs did not get good separation in my opinion. Most of their catches were spectacular grabs or grabs in traffic. I never really saw a guy get open, except for Tim Carter, who promptly whiffed on the catch. We didn't have any opportunities really for YACs.
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Old 08-10-2008   #38
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
Positives:

1) Kris Brown is about as good as it gets when it comes to NFL kickers.
yeah buddy, I still reflect back (can't help it) to the 2005 season against Tennssee to win the game, y'all remember the one, shanked OB, the kick that earned the Texans the #1 pick & Mario Williams. yes we have alot to thank Kris Brown for.

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2) Looks like we'll have some solid WRs if Anderson gets the opportunity to carry over his play to the regular season. The guy isn't big or fast but he finds ways to get open and catches everything thrown at him, those types of guys should always have a place on an NFL team.
once again very competitive group, WR has gone from one of weakness to one of strength. some mention needs to be made also of the positive play from LaRon McCoy, he's fringe proto-typical NFL WR body that might be the best back-up to Andre in terms of size & athletic strength. very impressed with him as well as Anderson (Wes Welker like).

1 Andre Johnson
2 Kevin Walter
3 Andre Davis (KR)
4 David Anderson
5 Jacoby Jones (PR)
6 LaRon McCoy

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
3) Duane Brown held his own against a premier edge rusher in Elvis Dumervil. He had the feet to match him in pass protection. Needs improvement in run blocking and against the bull rush however.
have no complaints not even run blocking (did they run behind him on his side?) for those of us long suffering "get a LT degenerates" Houston we have a good looking, young LT. thank you Rick Smith/Gary Kubiak/Alex Gibbs

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
4) Steve Slaton showed flashes of his potential. He's gonna have to grow up real fast though if the production from the other backs will be similar to tonight's all season.
forget the change of pace thingy, if Chris Brown cannot take snaps along with Ahman Green, Slayton will be the starting tailback for the 08 Houston Texans. He has the natural instincts, speed & quickness to hit the hole in Gibbs ZBS better than anyone left standing. somewhat dissapointed with Chris Taylor too, I know he's inexpereinced but he just doesn't have good vision & see the cutback lanes, has to be more deceisive & explosive coming off the ball.

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
5) MARIO IS A BEAST!!! He looks to be picking up where he left off last season..that's a scary thought.
Lawrence Taylor-ish from the end position

Negatives:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
1) Ahman Green injured on his 1st touch of the game. This takes away pretty much any tiny bit of confidence I had left in him playing a full NFL season.
release him, & let Rick Smith work the waiver wire, they're are going to be alot of RB's hitting the open market with teams 53 man roster cuts, practice squads were a team might think they can hide a player would be an excellent starting point.

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2) Our interior OL/DL was beaten most of the game. The holes we weren't opening seemed to be opening for the Broncos. Aside from a few key times when we could stuff them.
can't understand this other than our stength in these positions comes from our starters, that the Texans still lack quality depth in this area so they are running them out there to see what they've got in back-ups.

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
3) Chris Taylor didn't look like the training camp beast some of the members here have built him up to being. He looked subpar to be honest. Darius Walker looked average and Slaton looked the best for no reason other than he showed flashes of his elite burst through the hole at times. Our running backs were one of the weakest units tonight.
see above; Gibbs will earn his money here.

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
4) Jacoby Jones needs to learn that ball security is of the utmost importance even when the games dont count. That fumble should've never happened because the play should've been over like a minute before it happened lol.
not a good game for sure but in Jacoby's case a wake-up call, he'll improve greatly from here on. one of the negatives in a playmaker is the risk-reward mind set of taking something & trying to make a big play out of nothing.

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5) It seems our outside linebackers still have trouble stopping the screen pass. We're gonna need to work on this before Pittsburgh eats us up with it on opening day.
once again mostly back-ups by an large the Texans speed intermediate zone has improved greatly. really like Dominique Barber's play I would not leave him exposed on the practice squad, even if that means saying goodby to Earl or Harrison.
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Old 08-10-2008   #39
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
The fact that we didn't run the full ZBS against Denver pisses me off.

#1) It basically admits that Kubiak and Shanahan agreed not to use cut blocks in order to avoid injuries. This totally corroborates how cheap cut blocks are, and how risky they are to Dl. I don't have a problem with playing within the rules, but by avoiding using cut blocks on Denver DL and against our own guys during practice, we are just asking for other teams to call foul against us.

#2) We waste one of only 3 real opportunities for our OL to practice cut blocking before it counts for real. We only have 4 preseason games, and starters usually don't play the last game. So we have 3 games, and if we don't cut block in the first, that leaves us only 2 real games to practice. If this is the scheme we are running as our main run scheme, I'd like to know that the guys have actually done it before in a game time situation.


I just rewatched a good portion of the first half and I saw them cut blocking on numerous running plays. The problem was they were not very good at it. Most of the plays I saw, the DL they were attempting to cut was way past them and they just threw themselves at his legs. Too little too late.
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Old 08-10-2008   #40
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Default Re: Your positives and negatives from the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
The fact that we didn't run the full ZBS against Denver pisses me off.

#1) It basically admits that Kubiak and Shanahan agreed not to use cut blocks in order to avoid injuries. This totally corroborates how cheap cut blocks are, and how risky they are to Dl. I don't have a problem with playing within the rules, but by avoiding using cut blocks on Denver DL and against our own guys during practice, we are just asking for other teams to call foul against us.

#2) We waste one of only 3 real opportunities for our OL to practice cut blocking before it counts for real. We only have 4 preseason games, and starters usually don't play the last game. So we have 3 games, and if we don't cut block in the first, that leaves us only 2 real games to practice. If this is the scheme we are running as our main run scheme, I'd like to know that the guys have actually done it before in a game time situation.

It is very common for teams that have a history or a linkage like Houston and Denver to have agreements like this, and it is why they play in week one versus any other week. With starters only working a series or two, it is not like they are going to get this huge work load in this game. Starters play as much in game four as they do in game one.
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