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Old 12-17-2004   #1
HJam72
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Default Top 50 QBs

The other day I bought a mag named Sporting News, Pro Football's Greatest Quarterbacks, The Fab 50. Their list was in this order:

01) Johnny Unitas
02) Joe Montana
03) Otto Graham
04) John Elway
05) Sammy Baugh
06) Dan Marino
07) Brett Farve
08) Terry Bradshaw
09) Roger Staubach
10) Bart Starr
11) Fran Tarkenton
12) Troy Aikman
13) Steve Young
14) Sid Luckman
15) Dan Fouts
16) Bobby Layne
17) Norm Van Brocklin
18) Sonny Jergensen
19) Jim Kelly
20) Y.A. Tittle
21) Len Dawson
22) Bob Griese
23) Joe Namath
24) Warren Moon
25) Peyton Manning
26) George Blanda
27) Phil Simms
28) Bob Waterfield
29) Ace Parker
30) Ken Stabler
31) Joe Theisman
32) Randall Cunningham
33) Daryle Lamonica
34) Boomer Esiason
35) Ken Anderson
36) Arnie Herber
37) John Hal
38) Jim Plunkett
39) John Brodie
40) Jim Hart
41) Charlie Conorly
42) Paddy Driscoll
43) Roman Garbriel
44) Dutch Clark
45) Steve McNair
46) Kurt Warner
47) Jack Kemp
48) Tom Brady
49) Archie Manning
50) Benny Friedman

They also had an article about running QBs, which included Randall Cunningham, John Elway, Kordell Stewart, Steve Grogan, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Otto Graham, Frank Tarkenton, Michael Vick, and Steve Young.

They also had an article about young guns, which included Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, Chad Pennington, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr, and Philip Rivers (Chargers).

The part about Carr is short and just says that he may be a perennial pro-bowl QB in the future.

Anyway, I just wondered what some of you might feel about the top 50 list. I never saw a lot of those QBs, but, anyway, here's what I think, myself:

01) John Elway
02) Joe Montana
03) Dan Marino
04) Brett Farve
05) Jim Kelly, who is also hinted to be the most abrasive and conceited
06) Roger Staubach
07) Terry Bradshaw
08) Warren Moon
09) Steve Young
10) Troy Aikman
11) Randall Cunningham

I'll just stop there.... I left Peyton Manning out of my list, but I was tempted to "pencil him in" as number 1.

Oh, by the way, they said Warren Moon had the prettiest pass and best spiral of all time!

The "experts" here were Carl Peterson (GM of the Chiefs), Ron Wolf (GM of Packers 91-01), Gill Brandt (senior analyst for NFL.com), Floyd Reese (GM of Titans and Oilers for last 10 years), and Ernie Accorsi (GM of the Giants).

Any comments?

Last edited by HJam72; 12-17-2004 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 12-17-2004   #2
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All I know is that im taking Montana, Favre, and Bradshaw over Unitas.
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Old 12-17-2004   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
The numbers mean different things in different eras, unlike baseball where you can compare stats in a fairly static arena.
haha, now you have "pre-steriod era", and "Steroid era".
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Old 12-17-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
The numbers mean different things in different eras, unlike baseball where you can compare stats in a fairly static arena.
Totally disagree. Football fields are all the same dimensions. Name me two ballparks in MLB that are the same. Bonds has a huge advantage playing in that park in San Fran. Same as in Yankee Stadium, a chip shot will send it over the left field wall. They have raised and lowered the pitchers mound throughout the years also.
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Old 12-17-2004   #5
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Baseball is static? When the pitchers started dominating what did baseball do? They lowered the mound. How is that static? Is baseball played on a uniform field? No. Someone who plays at Yankee Field or in Colorado is always going to have a ton of home runs. How can you objectively compare their careers to someone who played in Atlanta?
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Old 12-17-2004   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Frankly, most people consider Baseball the grand game of statistical integrity.
Maybe in the pre-BALCO world. Baseball has had periods where numbers fluctuate greatly. The pre-Ruthian era where parks were huge and pitchers could legally grease the ball. The AstroTurf age where there was a huge increase in base stealing. And of course, the "Juiced Ball" era. Well, something was juiced. You can find the same types of statistical ebb & flow in the NFL & NBA. That's just the nature of sports.
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Old 12-17-2004   #7
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Lowering the mound, changing the dimensions of ballparks, designated hitters, manufucturing changes in the ball, turf v. grass, specialized performance roles for players ...yeah, the game's dynamics don't change at all.

I agree with the statement that Warren Moon threw the prettiest ball.
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Old 12-17-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
I agree with the statement that Warren Moon threw the prettiest ball.
Jeff George threw the perfect spiral. Goes to show you just how meaningless that is.
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Old 12-17-2004   #9
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I guess meaningless is in the eye of the beholder. It made an impression on me so obviously it meant something to me.
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Old 12-17-2004   #10
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Quote:
i don't understand how all of these lists can have dan marino (far) ahead of steve young? in his prime, young might well have been the best QB of all time.
Probably because his prime was only about 7 years while Marino's was 17.

Last edited by aj.; 12-17-2004 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 12-17-2004   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hetero doxy
i don't understand how all of these lists can have dan marino (far) ahead of steve young? in his prime, young might well have been the best QB of all time.
Marino holds the record for totals in yards passing, touchdown passes, and completions. He also currently (lol) holds the record for touchdown passes in one season. Most people thought he was better than even Elway for years. Here's a quote fromt he mag:

"His quick trigger allowed him to wait longer for receivers to get open and compensate for his lack of mobility, and his arm strength allowed him to make throws other QBs could only dream about."

They said he threw like a dart thrower and was still powerful and accurate. A agree with them. He changed the game by making it nearly impossible to get to him before he released the ball, albeit nobody ever missed him, lol. It's not his fault that his TEAM did not win Superbowls. They never quite had the overall talent. Not to mention their one SB appearance was against Joe Montana. The mag basically describes Joe Cool's (under pressure) play as "miraculous".
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Old 12-17-2004   #12
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Slightly off topic, but did anybody see Marino get asked about Manning and the record (I believe on Inside the NFL)? He was asked if Manning's setting the record now was as impressive as his setting the record when he did. He gave a borderline positive PC answer, but my impression was that he didn't really believe it and feels that with the "emphasis" on contact this year Manning has had it relatively easier.
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Old 12-17-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
I guess meaningless is in the eye of the beholder.
Meaningless in terms of judging greatness in a QB. Not in how much a fan enjoyed watching the pass.
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Old 12-17-2004   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Slightly off topic, but did anybody see Marino get asked about Manning and the record (I believe on Inside the NFL)? He was asked if Manning's setting the record now was as impressive as his setting the record when he did. He gave a borderline positive PC answer, but my impression was that he didn't really believe it and feels that with the "emphasis" on contact this year Manning has had it relatively easier.

I think I may have seen that, but I let myself forget about it because he had so little to say. I just got the feeling that he had hoped nobody would break it for a long time. I mean I can't blame him.

Last edited by HJam72; 12-17-2004 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 12-17-2004   #15
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Unlike Jeff George, Moon was a pretty damm good QB and he also happened to throw the prettiest ball I've ever seen.
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Old 12-17-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Meaningless in terms of judging greatness in a QB. Not in how much a fan enjoyed watching the pass.
Actually, I disagree with that. The spiral does make a little bit of a difference. It's not meaningless. It's just not nearly as important as some other things. Montana was noted as having a crummie spiral (he said that himself, I think) and not a real strong arm (considering his placement), but was still rated #2 for a lot of good reasons.

Mostly, I'm a homer and just glad to see Warren Moon get some attention. They also talked about what he might have accomplished had he not spent years in the CFL, when he was obviously good enough to play in the NFL the whole time.
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Old 12-17-2004   #17
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Quote by Joe Debranski (Center for Montana's high school team):

"When I think about Joe, I think aobut his hands. It was only at Ringgold High, but already they were the smoothest hands of any QB who had ever lined up underneath me. This was also a problem. Because I could never tell when Joe didn't have this hands there. There was nothing to stop him from playing a practical joke by pulling his hands out at the last minute and watching me snap the ball into my crotch. He thought that was funny. Ha-ha..."
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Old 12-17-2004   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72
The spiral does make a little bit of a difference.
What difference? If aesthetics were a real criterion of a QB's value, Jeff George would vault to the top of this list, and guys like Montana & Young would be absent. What a ball looks like in flight has no merit, what happens at the end of its flight does.

Um, thanks for the Montana visual.
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Old 12-17-2004   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
What difference? If aesthetics were a real criterion of a QB's value, Jeff George would vault to the top of this list, and guys like Montana & Young would be absent. What a ball looks like in flight has no merit, what happens at the end of its flight does.

Um, thanks for the Montana visual.

I think the difference reffered to is that the ball will track truer in flieght the tighter the spiral. It will also be less affected by wind.
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