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Old 12-18-2004   #41
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I haven't taken any stats from one particular game and said DRob was a playmaker. He has been doing his thing for the entire season with the exception of probably his first to starts. He has been challenged game after game and continues to make plays. 5 picks, 2 sacks, 69 tackles and 13 passes defensed and you're saying he hasn't made any plays. Sure the guys a rookie and wont be considered to be in the top 5 or maybe 10, but he is on his way if not already there.

I don't know how many games you have seen champ bailey play in this year, but he hasn't exactly been doing as good as most make it out to be. It is probably due to the new BS, no touch rule, but i dunno and don't care. He has been burned previous times by multiple recievers this year and is not having an outstanding season. His stats are 3 picks, 0 sacks, 69 tackles and 7 passes defensed.

And in response to being a shutdown corner. AS OF 2004 THERE IS NO SUCH THING. That new rule has made it so most recievers can get open in limited time one on one. If you want to disprove me you take any CB in the world, I'll have Moss or hell Andre Johnson for that matter. Give him 3-5 seconds throw the ball up and see who comes down with it.
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Old 12-18-2004   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreJ
I haven't taken any stats from one particular game and said DRob was a playmaker. He has been doing his thing for the entire season with the exception of probably his first to starts. He has been challenged game after game and continues to make plays. 5 picks, 2 sacks, 69 tackles and 13 passes defensed and you're saying he hasn't made any plays. Sure the guys a rookie and wont be considered to be in the top 5 or maybe 10, but he is on his way if not already there.

I don't know how many games you have seen champ bailey play in this year, but he hasn't exactly been doing as good as most make it out to be. It is probably due to the new BS, no touch rule, but i dunno and don't care. He has been burned previous times by multiple recievers this year and is not having an outstanding season. His stats are 3 picks, 0 sacks, 69 tackles and 7 passes defensed.

And in response to being a shutdown corner. AS OF 2004 THERE IS NO SUCH THING. That new rule has made it so most recievers can get open in limited time one on one. If you want to disprove me you take any CB in the world, I'll have Moss or hell Andre Johnson for that matter. Give him 3-5 seconds throw the ball up and see who comes down with it.
I agree with pretty much every statement you made. But you proved a point for me. Not many corners have an opportunity to take over a game. I can only think of one in the history of the NFL, and that was Deion Sanders. Safeties can be huge playmakers also, but a linebacker is the key to a playmaker on defense. There arent too many opportunities to land a player of his caliber.

But this is just my opinion. For all I know he could do nothing in the NFL. But for me, he is the only sure thing in this years draft. And I think he would make an immediate difference in our defense as a rookie.

By the way, 69 tackles for a corner is ridiculous. Another reason we need a playmaker at linebacker.
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Old 12-19-2004   #43
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well.. by definition a playmaker is someone who makes it a habit to perform HUGE plays when the team needs it most.

SO.. if we were behind and needed the ball back.. could we count on Robinson to intercept it? I dont think we could.. it just doesnt work that way.

I agree that there is no such thing as a shutdown corner anymore, and so I really dont think there is such thing as a playmaker at CB anymore.

If there was though.. Dunta would be as close as you could get to it. The guy can do everything. Hell who knows.. he still may end up being a huge playmaker for us based solely on his tackling and rushing ability.


When I think of a playmaker though.. Im thinking about someone who we can depend on on 3rd and long, in a tight game, to break through that line and get the sack or force an errant pass. Someone who can constantly disrupt the opposing offense for us.
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Old 12-19-2004   #44
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As rookies you could make a favorable comparison between Sean Taylor & Dunta Robinson.

Sean Taylor was the top rated defensive playmaker of the 04 draft and was selected 5th overall by Washington.

This years flavor is Derrick Johnson, most likely another top 5 pick (my best guess the Saints) would be formidable for the Texans to trade up & costly.

Traditionally in the 3-4 defense the playmaker comes from a LB. Does not mean it has to be but does make sense & works best historically.

Therefore the best course of action would be to select the best of the rest for a 3-4 defense, a lesser known talent like Dunta was last year (Dunta was the second corner taken, Hall first).

Several draft savy posters here have suggested Ahmad Brooks, Virginia. First he will need to declare his intention to enter the draft early.

The 3rd top playmaking LB is Channing Crowder also underclassman, in the Ray Lewis mold, aggressive & physical.

If both underclassman stay is school & Derrick is gone look for the Texans to draft a young, physical fast DT like Marcus Spears, LSU.

Then address the need in the 2nd round or bump that up to the 1st like they did last year with the Babin trade & take the next best LB who fits the 3-4.

At the moment my favorite sleeper LB is Marcus Lawrence from Dunta Robinsons old school South Carolina, Texans could reunite teammates. http://uscsports.collegesports.com/s..._marcus00.html

Last edited by beerlover; 12-19-2004 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 12-19-2004   #45
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I agree with the Texans probably not getting Derrick Johnson, I just thought he would be a good fit. I think we are more likely to draft Thomas Davis S from Georgia.

I dont think we are good enough at this point to draft a high first round pick, and have him sit the bench most of the games. Which is what would probably happen if he drafted a dlinemen.
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Old 12-19-2004   #46
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While I'd love to see the Texans draft a sudden impact player that'll put us over the top, common sense tells me that no single player is going to be able to carry this team to the playoffs. We still have a lot of needs to fill & I believe that this year is the year to set the table for next year's draft.

Depending upon how high we pick in the draft, I'd look to trade down for additional picks, with the intent being to pick up an extra #1 pick next year. That would put us in position to make a bold (& expensive) trade next year to move up & take the best impact player available. Two #1 picks in the same draft will usually get someone's attention.

In my opinion, we need to take the best available player of need with our 1st pick & add quality 1st day talent for depth. We need to upgrade the depth of the DL, OL, TE, LB, & the CB's. We should be able to sign a starting DL in free agency to upgrade the DL.

Impact players make a difference from the 1st day they step on the field (that's why they call them impact players), but your depth & role players generally don't hit the ground running. They tend to need a year of seasoning before they are ready to significantly contribute to the team. That's why I believe that we should fill out our depth this year & make a move for that impact player next year. Giving up extra picks to move up for 1 impact player this year is, in my opinion, just putting a bandaid on an open wound. It's just a matter of time until it starts bleeding again (in other words, injuries to your starters).

Besides, not every impact player is an obvious top 10 player. There are always the late round gems to be found, if the scouting department has done it's job.
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Old 12-19-2004   #47
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Ok, for all you who thought Duntae Rob wasn't a playmaker please tell me you saw the game today. The amn was all over the place!!!!! He had 7 solo tackles, 1 Int, 1 Sack and a Forced Fumble. I think i rest my case.

As far as a playmaker at LB, there were alot of guys who stepped up today. Kailee Wong had a great game even though he didn't get any sacks he was in Hutch's face all game long and Peek and Babin did the same. I would still like to see someone at MLB though like most of you say. Another good solid tackler, who could stuff the run and force fumbles next to Jamie Sharper would be great. But I would be just as happy with a good D-Lineman that would keep us in a 4-man rotation to keep them fresh.

Just my thoughts..........
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Old 12-19-2004   #48
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Quote:
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Dunta Robinson is not a defensive playmaker.
Funny.....
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Old 12-20-2004   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreJ
Ok, for all you who thought Duntae Rob wasn't a playmaker please tell me you saw the game today. The amn was all over the place!!!!! He had 7 solo tackles, 1 Int, 1 Sack and a Forced Fumble. I think i rest my case.

As far as a playmaker at LB, there were alot of guys who stepped up today. Kailee Wong had a great game even though he didn't get any sacks he was in Hutch's face all game long and Peek and Babin did the same. I would still like to see someone at MLB though like most of you say. Another good solid tackler, who could stuff the run and force fumbles next to Jamie Sharper would be great. But I would be just as happy with a good D-Lineman that would keep us in a 4-man rotation to keep them fresh.

Just my thoughts..........
Amazing, the defense played real well against *gasp* one of the worst if not the worst offense in the NFL at the moment. They are on their 4th starting QB this year.

Dont get me wrong, we do not have many bad players starting on the team. But they are pretty much average. Wong is an average OLB. Babin has potential... but is below average at this point.

If you want to compare what is average or below, compare to other 3-4 defenses in the league, and see who the better players are. The raiders and texans have the two worst 3-4 defenses in the league. Bottom line.

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haven't taken any stats from one particular game and said DRob was a playmaker. He has been doing his thing for the entire season with the exception of probably his first to starts. He has been challenged game after game and continues to make plays. 5 picks, 2 sacks, 69 tackles and 13 passes defensed and you're saying he hasn't made any plays. Sure the guys a rookie and wont be considered to be in the top 5 or maybe 10, but he is on his way if not already there.
And then you do exactly what you said you werent going to do. Dunta is a very good corner. If you think you can depend on him to make a sack a game, and a forced fumble, you are in the dark. Dunta Robinson will be a very good cornerback. Will he stop good running teams from ramming it down our throats? Will he be the only source of defensive pressure we get?

Quote:
Funny.....
That was said due to the fact that Dunta will not be able to control every game. As a linebacker, you control the whole game. Unless Dunta plans on stopping the run every game and being the only player to put pressure on the QB, and cover their second best reciever....
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Old 12-20-2004   #50
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i just wanted to say that i thought our offense had some problems, but atleast when carr throws his 15 dump-off passes to DD everygame (except this one), they actually get to him, their offense is horrible . their offense might make us a little blind. just because we had a great game, we still have the same defensive weaknesses that he had last week. actually i was a little disappointed, i read in the post this morning that the bears have given up like 4 sacks in each of their last 10 games, and from my count (from mid second quarter on) we only had one or maybe two. i know we had pressure but we weren't able to finish it off.
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Old 12-20-2004   #51
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Dunta has taken advantage of many of the opportunities that have presented themselves and turned them into big plays. If you don't call that a "playmaker" then we have different definition for the term. Really the only positions on the field that cannot be "playmakers" IMO are along the O-line.
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Old 12-20-2004   #52
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I will be suprised if DJ is in a Texan uniform.. I think our draft position is going to be too high and it will cost too much to move up in the 1st given we only have 1 extra pick (3rd round) and many holes to fill. I don't see us trading up in the early 1st.. now moving up in the 2nd round. I could see that (like we did last year)
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Old 12-20-2004   #53
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I think we have more than enough needs NOT to shoot up for a player like DJ. Ahmad Brooks, Marcus Spears, Thomas Davis, and even someone low 1st like Channing Crowder. So anywhere we are in the draft, I see us sticking there, and taking BPA.
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Old 12-20-2004   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
Dunta has taken advantage of many of the opportunities that have presented themselves and turned them into big plays. If you don't call that a "playmaker" then we have different definition for the term. Really the only positions on the field that cannot be "playmakers" IMO are along the O-line.
Ugh... Yall are all misunderstanding my word usage of playmaker.... or I am not clarifying it well enough.

Dunta Robinson is good in coverage. Dunta Robinson will make tackles to the outside. Dunta Robinson is good for an occasional sack on a corner blitz.

Dunta Robinson cannot stop runs to 80% of the field. Dunta Robinson cannot cover every wide reciever. Dunta Robinson cannot be our main source or one of the main sources for pressure on the QB.

The fact that Dunta has so many tackles is ridiculous upon itself. A corner having that many tackles?!?!? Is it because he is such a great tackler, or is it because the rest of our defense cant make one?
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Old 12-20-2004   #55
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Good lord man, it is not Dunta's job to shut down the run even though he comes up and makes stop sometimes his job is to be out in the secondary stopping passes and picking of balls and thats what he's been doing lately. I think you're trying to say we need another playmaker in the front 7 to stop the run.

We're not saying Dunta is goin to do that for us, were just saying he makes plays in the secondary with and occasional sack. You are saying you want another playmaker to stop the run and pressure the QB am i correct?
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Old 12-20-2004   #56
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Back to Derrick Johnson. There is no way in the world he will still be available when the Texans pick. Perhaps his teammate Rodirique Wright would fit in nicely with the Texans as DT.
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Old 12-20-2004   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComstockLode
Dunta Robinson cannot stop runs to 80% of the field. Dunta Robinson cannot cover every wide reciever. Dunta Robinson cannot be our main source or one of the main sources for pressure on the QB.
Nobody can do all of that. By your definition, there are no playmakers.
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Old 12-20-2004   #58
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all dante needs to do is shut off HIS side of the field and let the others do their thing. If he can cut the field in half then he did his job
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Old 12-20-2004   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreJ
Good lord man, it is not Dunta's job to shut down the run even though he comes up and makes stop sometimes his job is to be out in the secondary stopping passes and picking of balls and thats what he's been doing lately. I think you're trying to say we need another playmaker in the front 7 to stop the run.

We're not saying Dunta is goin to do that for us, were just saying he makes plays in the secondary with and occasional sack. You are saying you want another playmaker to stop the run and pressure the QB am i correct?
YES! I am saying we do not have a playmaker who can be all over the field and do pretty much everything. That would mean a LB....

And since you think we apparently have a playmaker in our front seven also, I was just wondering why is our defense ranked in the bottom 1/4 in the league? Can we not accept that the Texans are below average on defense?

Have one of the worst if not the worst pass rushing team in the NFL?

I am not suggesting Dunta should do all that, I am saying there is only so much Dunta Robinson can do. He is a corner.... And I was pointing out that our defense is so pathetic, that we depend on a corner to make sacks....

Quote:
Nobody can do all of that. By your definition, there are no playmakers.
I was explaining, that none of those Dunta Robinson is able to do. There is only so much he can do. Unless we throw Ronnie Lott out there at safety, no defensive back can do these things.

At the linebacker position in the 3-4, you can stop the run, drop into pass coverage, and give the defense the much needed pressure on the QB. That was the only point I was trying to make, nothing less, nothing more.
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Old 12-20-2004   #60
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