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Old 12-16-2004   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB.

In any event, just for giggles, for a comparison:

What the Texans did:
#10 Dunta Robinson
#27 Jason Babin
#122 Glenn Earl

What they might have done:
#10+#40 for #5--not sure this would have been acceptable to the Redskins, but it is a slight premium for them.
#5 Sean Taylor
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans
In the 1st couple of rounds last year there was more than a slight premium paid to move up...the Browns paid the 1st and 2nd switch one spot. the texans would have needed to add at least another pick if not more.
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Old 12-16-2004   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB.

In any event, just for giggles, for a comparison:

What the Texans did:
#10 Dunta Robinson
#27 Jason Babin
#122 Glenn Earl

What they might have done:
#10+#40 for #5--not sure this would have been acceptable to the Redskins, but it is a slight premium for them.
#5 Sean Taylor
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans
From what I recall, the Redskins had some insane request. Something like 2 1st's and additional picks to trade up. Lets say that for argument's sake we had to give up a 1st and 3rd in 2004 and our 2005 1st round pick. Would you do that? I remember I personally set the limit at a 1st, 3rd, and 4th. I even thought that may be too much.

I can see your argument against trading for Babin though. That is an entirely separate discussion IMO. Imagine this:
#10 Dunte Robinson
#40 ?
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans

Babin really has to pan out or our trade with the Titans is going to look silly.
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Old 12-16-2004   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
In the 1st couple of rounds last year there was more than a slight premium paid to move up...the Browns paid the 1st and 2nd switch one spot. the texans would have needed to add at least another pick if not more.
I agree, the chart was off last year--the trade I put was 1700 for the #5 for 1300 #10 and 500 #40. IMO that wouldn't have gotten it done. As Ogre said there were reports that the Skins wanted some obscene amount.

And Ogre--I wasn't arguing against the Babin trade just giving a what if we had traded for Taylor and what might have flowed from that--one of the things that would have flowed is that you lose both Robinson and Babin because you wouldn't have had the picks to move up and get Babin.
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Old 12-16-2004   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansCanes
that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the cowboys were going to run the ball. woods didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the pass. also, wasn't vernand hurt during the season, i think it was his hamstring?
that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the Red Raiders were going to pass the ball. Tech's running game didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the rush. also, wasn't BJ hurt during the season, i think it was his blownout knee

does that work both ways?
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Old 12-16-2004   #25
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Originally Posted by astrofan
that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the Red Raiders were going to pass the ball. Tech's running game didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the rush. also, wasn't BJ hurt during the season, i think it was his blownout knee

does that work both ways?
You are a joke. There is a reason Morency will be a 1st or 2nd round pick. And there is a reason why BJ, and his WR, were second day picks, or not picked at all.
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Old 12-16-2004   #26
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mewelde moore and cedric cobbs were much better backs than vernand, and they didn't go until 119 and 128
was that a joke?
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Old 12-16-2004   #27
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Originally Posted by astrofan
mewelde moore and cedric cobbs were much better backs than vernand, and they didn't go until 119 and 128
was that a joke?
Well thats your opinion. And ill respect that.
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Old 12-16-2004   #28
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"Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB"
From this threads origgional post.
Wow, that's so interesting to me because I to knew a lot of people who were downright infatuated with Taylor. While he was an outstanding athelete, as a safety he was playing at the least strategically important position on the D side of the ball. I remember thinking how I thought D-Rob was a better "overall" pick than Taylor for us (or any team), because corners are
so much more important than safeties. And that was before we had any idea how good D-Rob was gonna be. The thing about Taylor (and some others like R.Williams with the Cowboys), is that they are natural LBs playing safety. And that's odd since LB is a very important position.
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Old 12-16-2004   #29
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according to drafthistory only four LBs have gone higher that Babin since 2000
jonny vilma
dj williams
nap harris
dan the man morgan
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Old 12-16-2004   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrofan
according to drafthistory only four LBs have gone higher that Babin since 2000
jonny vilma
dj williams
nap harris
dan the man morgan
Terrell Suggs also.
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Old 12-16-2004   #31
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of course
I think he was on the DE list
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Old 12-17-2004   #32
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I'll admit I was on the Sean Taylor bandwagon for awhile.

I'll admit I had little clue as to who Robinson or Babin were on draft day and questioned the moves, but there's a reason I'm not paid to do this.

I'll also admit Robinson is a stud so far and I have no regrets at this point, and feel like Babin will prove his worth when we get a DLine that performs atleast average.
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Old 12-17-2004   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Any chance we can just dredge up all the Sean Taylor posts from last year and search and replace for Derrick Johnson?

OK that was half a joke.

The one significant difference is that the cap arguments are much better for making such a move for a LB (in the top ten will get a contract among the highest paid LB's) than they are for a safety (in the top ten will get a contract almost $2 mil per year over the franchise tag number).
I understand that, I have been around this board along time, I just dont ever really see a reason to post, I am more of a college football fan to be honest. However, I am a huge Texans fan.
As many of you may have experienced, the NFL lost its luster to me when the oilers moved, so I became strictly a college football nut.

I am not saying its anywhere near negative if we dont move up. I thought Sean Taylor would have been great, but I dont think he fit our team, and we had more pressing needs than safety IMO. Dunta Robinson was a hit or miss, and it definately looks like a hit at this point. The reason I like DJ so much, because I think he is one of the only sure things in this years draft.

However, comparing a playmaking safety to a playmaking linebacker, is not a fair comparison. As great as Ed Reed has been this year, Would you rather have Ed Reed on your team over Ray Lewis? Obviously DJ is not Ray lewis, I am just pointing out that LB is a more important position.

Quote:
some draft productions have him slipping to around 15 because of his inability to take on blocks
That is DJ's main weakness, and I dont think it would be exposed as much in a 3-4 defense that is designed for the dlinemen to take up blocks, to free up the LBs. A similiar system is in place at Texas however run out of a 4-3/

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don't really know what that means. that is not the right comparison anyway. if you want to compare DJ to anyone on the miami team it would be McGahee. i think your comparison is that when ever a big play is made, DJ has something to do with it. when miami needed a big play they went to willis, maybe i'm wrong. remember andre was never the focus point of the offense, althought ken did start to look more to him during his junior season. also you are just stating the obvious by saying that we need DJ. i think everyone one the board has said that some way
I should clarify my statement. I was comparing DJ's and Andre's attitudes as opposed to there college careers. Derrick Johnson is a fiery player on the field, but is quiet, low key,and mild mannered off of it. Fitting into what the Texans want from their players.

Quote:
I agree, the chart was off last year--the trade I put was 1700 for the #5 for 1300 #10 and 500 #40. IMO that wouldn't have gotten it done. As Ogre said there were reports that the Skins wanted some obscene amount.
I dont think we should enter into an obscene trade, I was just making the statement, if it wasnt that obscene of a trade to the Texans, I think he is worth going for.

Sean Taylor has a chance of being a Roy Williams. Dunta Robinson has a chance at being a shutdown corner. This is a totally different scenario from this year.

There are no sure things to improve our offensive line immediately in this years draft which is the consensual biggest weakness of this team. Another Dlinemen would just be a rotating player that would replace one of the old guys eventually, that is only intended to take up blocks. Our corners are set, and there arent any incredible talents out there at safety.

So I assumed it could be worth a shot at going after a franchise linebacker, that can blitz the QB, run stop, and play well in pass coverage.
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Old 12-17-2004   #34
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I thought I should throw in some of his interviews/quotes/letters that suggest what a gracious guy DJ is.

Regarding the Bronko Nagurski award day:

"Today they have a full day planned for us. We got up bright and early for breakfast and then we went to speak to some high school kids about leadership. I really enjoyed having a chance to talk to the kids. I do that a lot in Austin and it's really rewarding to be able to share your experiences and to help them out. We are in such a great position to be role models for kids and I take that very seriously. After spending about an hour and a half with the kids it was off to the awards luncheon. Mark May from ESPN is the emcee tonight. He's someone everyone will recognize from Game Day. I enjoyed meeting him at lunch. After lunch we had a chance to give a little more back in visiting patients at a local children's hospital. The kids really lit up while we were there. That made us all feel great. I probably enjoyed that time more than anything else thus far.

Now it's time to get dressed up in my tux for the banquet. We have a press conference, the banquet and then the award. Hopefully the next time I write, it will be as the Bronko Nagurski Trophy winner.

Cross your fingers.

Hook 'em

D.J."

"After the luncheon, we went and spoke at the Burnett Bayland Home for Juveniles and tried to encourage them to be able to learn from their mistakes and build their character. We took pictures and signed autographs afterward and I enjoyed talking to a lot of them. I hope we were able to inspire them to work for their dreams.

From there, we went to a radio station to do an interview before going to a dinner reception with a lot of people from the Rotary Club of Houston and the Lombardi Committee. I met a lot of nice people, plus there was more picture taking and autograph signing before we came back to the hotel where I was glad to see my bed.

Today was a really special day. We had another pretty early wake up call at 7 a.m., but we got ready, had some breakfast and went to two children's hospitals where most of the kids were having cancer treatment. A lot of people say what we do inspires them, but I met so many young kids who have to fight each day, and they were the ones who really inspired me. All of us were just glad to be able to brighten their day. The Texas Children‚s Hospital even has its own little radio station and one of the kids interviewed us for the whole hospital to hear."

What was your favorite moment from the trip?
My favorite moment was having the opportunity to meet Dick Butkus. He's my idol. He's the best linebacker to ever play the game of football. For me to get a chance to him was remarkable. Also, getting to meet all of the kids at the hospitals on the trip was really special. They show what true courage and character really is.

Going to the awards was an experience that I will cherish for the rest of my life. It's something I will tell my kids and my grandkids and I will tell them that all of the awards I was up for were all very prestigious awards.

What was it like coming back after that long week?
The Lott Trophy ceremonies really gave me a chance to relax. I did that. So I was able to catch up on all my rest. My teammates welcomed me when I finally got back. They showed me a lot of appreciation. They said that they were honored to play with me and I am honored that they appreciate me.

What happens next?
Just doing a lot of work and getting ready for the bowl game. School is out but we have a lot of things to focus on, that's Michigan and our game plan.

What have you seen from the Michigan offense?
I've been really impressed with the way they get the ball to Braylon Edwards, the best receiver in the country, and they do it a lot.

What does Derrick Johnson want for Christmas? I want a new video game and a Rose Bowl win for The University of Texas.
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Old 12-18-2004   #35
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[quote=ComstockLode]

Our defense is missing one thing that makes any defense great. A playmaker.

[quote]


Couldnt have said it better myself .
And there is no comarison between Sean Taylor and Derrick Johnson other than they are both great athlete's .
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Old 12-18-2004   #36
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Someone said our D was missing a playmaker, apparently they were not aware that the Texans drafted a rookie conerback last year, who continues to pick off QB's and had two sacks on Peyton last week, sure he gives up a few passes here and thee but he makes great open field tackles and even with the BS no touch rule this year he is playing wonderfully.

If he hasn't made any plays, i dont know what a playmaker is? (Ed Reed, maybe? Yeah he's one in about a trillion)
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Old 12-18-2004   #37
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I think most people agree that we still need a playmaker in our front-7. That is probably what the reference is to.
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Old 12-18-2004   #38
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would DJ line up between Sharper and Babin?
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Old 12-18-2004   #39
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Derrick Johnson would be perfectly suited to play ILB in the Texans 3-4 defense

DRob Coleman Earl CARLOS ROGERS(AUBURN)
Wong DJ Sharper Babin
Smith GABRIEL Walker
WATSON
(NOTREDAME)


THATS what im talking about!
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Old 12-18-2004   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreJ
Someone said our D was missing a playmaker, apparently they were not aware that the Texans drafted a rookie conerback last year, who continues to pick off QB's and had two sacks on Peyton last week, sure he gives up a few passes here and thee but he makes great open field tackles and even with the BS no touch rule this year he is playing wonderfully.

If he hasn't made any plays, i dont know what a playmaker is? (Ed Reed, maybe? Yeah he's one in about a trillion)
Dunta Robinson is not a defensive playmaker. He is a very good young cornerback. You cannot take stats from one game and automatically consider a player a playmaker. There is only one corner in the game at the moment IMO, that is a playmaker: Champ Bailey.

When I talk about playmaker I am talking about an upper echelon player. Can you honestly say Dunta is even a top 5 corner in the league at this point? Top 10? Top 15? He isnt the best corner on the team at this point. He could become one, but at the moment he is not. And there is no guarentee that he will be a shutdown corner. He could just end up being a very good corner. He could end up being the next champ bailey. But he probably wont be.

The Texans need someone to stop the opposing team from running the ball down our throat. The Texans need better coverage against the underneath routes. The Texans need better pass rushers, because we are in the bottom 1/4 in the league in sacks.
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