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Old 12-16-2004   #21
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Originally Posted by Cincinnatikid
Payne is the best Dline this season, and what about Peek? Why is everyone on this message board so bipolar all the time. One day they hate the team, the next they love it. One day they say peek sucks and cant stop the run, the next day they love how he played and say he should be a starter, then now he shouldnt even be kept on the team? Some of these people on here need to make up their minds. Ridiculous

Don't you know some of us sill need lithium?
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Old 12-21-2004   #22
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
"But the playmakers in the 3-4 defense are the linebackers, especially hybrid defenders on the edge, guys who perhaps were 245-pound ends in college but who can convert to playing in a two-point stance."
OK Len, tell us something we didn't know. We've got a couple young guys (Babin & Peek), who fit that description but they are still adapting to their new positions.
In the meantime, the D played a very good game Sunday. Think how good they would be if we had used the #1 and #3 overall in the 2002 and 2003 college drafts, respectively, on defensive personnel.
Clearly, the offense is more to blame for us not being > 5-8 than the defense.
Here's another ESPN story about the 3-4 (but this time SD), and includes some very glowing remarks about Steve Foley. How did we ever let that guy
slip thru our fingers ?
"Look at Steve Foley," Edwards said. "He's about 270 pounds and he can move. He can get back in coverage when necessary and he can rush the quarterback."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=1940744
As I remember, Foley jumped at a big ol contract & gave Casserly no chance to meet it. He was good. However, our dline is not suppose to make sacks! a 3-4 is for linebackers to get to QB & occasionally a c/b like Dunte. Walker Payne & Smith are to tie up 4 O linemen & sometimes a TE and a blocking full back! Two have been injured & we still might be 8-8. Most of us would have grabbed that before game 1. I think a first pick will ease the dline some in 05.
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Old 12-22-2004   #23
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
There is a certain irony to punching the Texans D the week after they limited the Colts to their lowest score of the season.

Saw a good point somewhere today--Scouts, Inc. I believe--that the Texans D isn't as flabby as the stats reflect because of 13 games, 6 have been against the league's top 5 offenses--Indyx2, Denver, Minnesota, Green Bay and Kansas City.
The Jags played all those teams + San Diego and are ranked 12th.
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Old 12-22-2004   #24
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Originally Posted by jagsfanincanada
The Jags played all those teams + San Diego and are ranked 12th.
Could you let us hang on to our delusion, please?
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Old 12-22-2004   #25
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In the 3-4 you need a dominant 2-gap nose tackle and though Payne may be our best d-lineman this year he's far from dominant. Peek/Babin both need to be on the field at the same time. Wong needs to be moved to the inside whether he likes it or not. We need another MLB to complement Sharper either Wong or through draft/FA.
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Old 12-22-2004   #26
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Originally Posted by fresno8
In the 3-4 you need a dominant 2-gap nose tackle and though Payne may be our best d-lineman this year he's far from dominant.
Cut him a little slack for this season--he is just coming back from three surgeries. He has been steadily improving as the year has gone on. If you want to see a dominant 2-gap NT--look at Payne in the Miami game last year.
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Old 12-22-2004   #27
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point is our front 7 isn't getting the pressure on the QB that they need to. something needs to change.
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Old 12-22-2004   #28
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Originally Posted by jacquescas
point is our front 7 isn't getting the pressure on the QB that they need to. something needs to change.
Well it has been getting better the last few games. FYI--Manning has been sacked a total of 9 times this year--3 of those were by the Texans. All the blitzing in the world didn't get the vaunted Ravens D a sack last weekend. Which brings up the last point is that sacks do not adequately measure pressure. The Texans have moved the QB around and hurried them quite a bit this year--they just aren't getting them to the ground. Definitely can be improved upon though. Some improvement should be automatic from Babin and Peek having this year under their belts.
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Old 12-22-2004   #29
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All this talk about the D-line. Its the O-Line that has been the biggest disappointment this season. The D has regressed since the inagural season and the O-Line has regressed from last season. If we had the 1st years D the 2nd years O-Line and this years backs and receivers we would be going to the playoffs
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Old 12-22-2004   #30
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Originally Posted by Jwwillis
All this talk about the D-line. Its the O-Line that has been the biggest disappointment this season. The D has regressed since the inagural season and the O-Line has regressed from last season. If we had the 1st years D the 2nd years O-Line and this years backs and receivers we would be going to the playoffs
The O-line has at least had the nerve to be inconsistent. Teams have pretty much ran on our D-line all year and there has been no pass rush from the front 3.
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Old 12-22-2004   #31
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Texans D has looked good at times just as the O. They are both woefully inconsistant. However, I would say the Texans have lost more games due to the O's inability to protect the QB than the D's inability to stop the run or pass. The D spends WAY to much time in the field after yet another 3 and out.

There has been NO time to throw downfield.
There has been NO scoring in the red zone.
There has been NO run blocking.
There HAVE been plenty of safetys.
There HAVE been more drive killing penalties.

I expected better from the O after the off season aquisitions. I was more skeptical of the D after Walker and Pane were coming of injuries while still starting 2 rookies.

Oh, and by the way the front 3 are not pass rushers in the 3-4

Last edited by Jwwillis; 12-22-2004 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 12-22-2004   #32
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ok ok now i know we have not had many safties. I only remember 1 and that was the last game ! well one this year !
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Old 12-22-2004   #33
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Originally Posted by Jwwillis
Its the O-Line that has been the biggest disappointment this season.
Yup, its arguable that last years combination of Pitts & Randall was a better
combination than this years Wade & Wand. This years O-line has had some
good quarters, but they have been so streaky. I dunno, gotta really second
guess the judgement of the coaches on these topics - switching to the zone blocking and going too quickly with Wand. Maybe both will work out eventually, but in the meantime Carr is getting shell shocked and starting to
dance like Sammy Davis Jr.
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Old 12-22-2004   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwwillis
Texans D has looked good at times just as the O. They are both woefully inconsistant. However, I would say the Texans have lost more games due to the O's inability to protect the QB than the D's inability to stop the run or pass. The D spends WAY to much time in the field after yet another 3 and out.

There has been NO time to throw downfield.
There has been NO scoring in the red zone.
There has been NO run blocking.
There HAVE been plenty of safetys.
There HAVE been more drive killing penalties.

I expected better from the O after the off season aquisitions. I was more skeptical of the D after Walker and Pane were coming of injuries while still starting 2 rookies.


Oh, and by the way the front 3 are not pass rushers in the 3-4
It is a myth that the D-linemen in 3-4 are not expected to generate pass rush. Their 1st, but not ONLY, duty is to tie upblockers to free the linebackers, next is to stuff the run, and finally create an inside pass rush. they are not the primary pass rushesr, but those 3 guys have to generate some pass rush.

DL leaders from the other 3-4 teams.
Smith-Pittsburg (8.5)
Douglas-Baltimore (5.5)
Seymour-NE(5)
williams-Sd (4)
Payne/Smith -texans (2 each)

No great sack totals but those guys are generate some pass rush.

Also, 4 of the top 6 DLman are FA. The team literally needs bodies. it is a more urgent situation.

Not really wanting to give those guys too much credit, but The Texans have went from like #31 in offense this year to somewhere in the middle of the pack, (think like 14 or 15 in yards and 21 in points). The offense is better in virtuely every category, scoring, 1st downs, time of possession, yards. While the OL is probably what keeps the offense from being better saying that the OL has nothing to do with across the board improvement would be irresponsible.

the texans have actually spent a ton of money in both lines and neither is performing up to the investment that has been made.
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Old 12-22-2004   #35
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To follow up on AT's comments--Gary Walker 2002 6.5 sacks--2004 0.5 sacks. You will not see 13 sacks from a 3-4 DE, but 6 on one side 4 on the other and 8-12 from each OLB is what builds a Capers D. Robaire needs to show he can adapt to the 3-4 and Walker needs to show he deserved his signing bonus next year. JMO, but Payne will be fine at NT.
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Old 12-23-2004   #36
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ok ok now i know we have not had many safties. I only remember 1 and that was the last game ! well one this year !
Ok Ok so I may have crossed the line on that one. Thought there were at least 2 though

It just that I feel Carrs frustration. He has been silent for 2yrs while getting the **** kicked outa him then things get progressivly worse. Then when he says something he is whining. Im tellin ya it looked like the ol' "Longest Yard" blocking scheme on that safety. Im glad Carr is speaking out. The next drive they started to hold and Carr went to work. Whats up with that?? What? Carr yells a little bit and they decide to block all the sudden?? To me its about heart when that happens.
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Old 12-23-2004   #37
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Its kinda sad to think Millionaires have to be motivated like that. All my work does is gives me donuts.
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Old 12-23-2004   #38
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Originally Posted by gwallaia
I'm telling you, Marcus Spears, DE from LSU. That's the guy we want in the draft.
In the early ratings I've seen, Spears is being listed as a top ten talent and will probably be taken before our mid-round draft position.

Ahmad Brooks, ILB, is a third year sophomore and has not declared for the draft, but may be leaning in this direction. If he does declare, he will probably be the first LB taken and is also probabably a top ten pick.
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Old 12-23-2004   #39
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Originally Posted by wags
Why? He's our best D-linemen this year. He has more sacks and tackles than Walker and Smith.
Payne weighs in at only 315 lbs, maybe 15 lbs lighter than ideal for a NT. We could maybe upgrade two positions by drafting a NT and shifting Payne to Walker's DLE position.
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Old 12-23-2004   #40
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Originally Posted by Jwwillis
All this talk about the D-line. Its the O-Line that has been the biggest disappointment this season. The D has regressed since the inagural season and the O-Line has regressed from last season. If we had the 1st years D the 2nd years O-Line and this years backs and receivers we would be going to the playoffs
You forget two points : (1) We have new players at three positions, and (2) We changed our blocking scheme.

Realistically, we started back at square one and it will take two full seasons and three training camps before they begin to really master the new blocking.

Mistake? Maybe. But it was a coaching decision we have to live with.

We have four picks in the first three rounds of this next draft. Two of these need to be a Center and a Guard. They probabably will not play much in '05 but may be ready by '06.
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