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Old 06-18-2008   #1
threetoedpete
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Default 2013 Hof

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...holm061808.htm

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We might be looking at one of the most impressive lists of names leaving the game this offseason. Brett Favre. Michael Strahan. Warren Sapp. Jonathan Ogden. Steve McNair. Maybe Larry Allen. Is this the greatest outgoing group of players in a single offseason?

First, we must add one more critical name — Bryant Young.
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How many guys can you say that about in this generation? Sapp had his down years toward the end. Richard Seymour? Talk to me in five or six years. Kevin Williams might be in that discussion one day, but to play 14 years as Young has done, and at such a high level, is rare.
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Old 06-18-2008   #2
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

Junior Seau might retire this year also. They were talking about it on Sirius NFL Radio that a couple might not get in the first time. I think Favre and Ogden will be a shoe in the first time and Strahan also.
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Old 06-18-2008   #3
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

I don't see how any of these guys don't get in first ballot they all dominated their positions for the vast majority of their careers. Screw what the committee guidelines, they should all go in 1st ballot.

Brett Favre
Michael Strahan
Warren Sapp
Jonathan Ogden
Steve McNair
Larry Allen
Bryant Young
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Old 06-18-2008   #4
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

I don't see Steve McNair as a HOF QB.
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Old 06-18-2008   #5
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I don't see Steve McNair as a HOF QB.
Really? Wow. Care to share your view?
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Old 06-18-2008   #6
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Really? Wow. Care to share your view?
I think he might eventually get in, but I don't really see him as a first ballot HOFer. Especially in the group he's with. Here are a few to compare him to.

Steve McNair - 174 TD, 119 INT, 31,304 yds, 82.8 Rtg
Dan Marino - 420 TD, 252 INT, 61,361 yds, 86.4 Rtg
Warren Moon - 291 TD, 233 INT, 49,325 yds, 80.9 Rtg
Joe Montana - 273 TD, 139 INT, 40,551 yds, 92.3 Rtg
Boomer Esiason - 247 TD, 184 INT, 37,920 yds, 81.1 Rtg
Troy Aikman - 165 TD, 141 INT, 32,942 yds, 81.6 Rtg
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Old 06-18-2008   #7
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

Steve McNair was a really good QB. A great one at times. He's not a Hall of Fame QB. Not on the first try, not on any try after that. You have to play at a high level for a long time to be a HoF'r. He had a couple of great years, a couple of good ones, and a handful of mediocre and bad ones.
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Old 06-18-2008   #8
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I don't see Steve McNair as a HOF QB.
Steven McNair should have to wait if they made Art Monk sit out so long, IMO.

I like McNair, but he's not a shoo-in for the HoF.
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Old 06-18-2008   #9
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I don't see Steve McNair as a HOF QB.
stats wise I agree. However if there is still room for warrior type QBs who refused to let his team lose no matter what the personal sacrifice, he has a shot. He has a co-MVP, and a SB appearance. He has a shot. Bart Star's stats aren't exactly eye popping.
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Old 06-18-2008   #10
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
Steve McNair was a really good QB. A great one at times. He's not a Hall of Fame QB. Not on the first try, not on any try after that. You have to play at a high level for a long time to be a HoF'r. He had a couple of great years, a couple of good ones, and a handful of mediocre and bad ones.
That pretty much sums it up.

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
stats wise I agree. However if there is still room for warrior type QBs who refused to let his team lose no matter what the personal sacrifice, he has a shot. He has a co-MVP, and a SB appearance. He has a shot. Bart Star's stats aren't exactly eye popping.
The warrior image might tip the balance.
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Old 06-18-2008   #11
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
stats wise I agree. However if there is still room for warrior type QBs who refused to let his team lose no matter what the personal sacrifice, he has a shot. He has a co-MVP, and a SB appearance. He has a shot. Bart Star's stats aren't exactly eye popping.
Neither was Aikmans, but they both won multiple Super Bowls.

If Marino's stats were similar to McNair, Aikman, etc. he wouldn't be in the HOF.
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Old 06-18-2008   #12
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

Terrell Davis has two rings, 1998 NFL MVP, 1997 Super Bowl MVP, NFL Offensive Player of the Year (x2), Pro Bowler (x3), All-Pro selection (x4), and is the Denver Broncos all-time leading rusher, with 7,607 rushing yards (among other honors).

But he's not in the HoF, and many would argue that he might never be in.

If Davis, with everything he accomplished, cannot make it, I don't really see a good argument for McNair at this point. Lots of football players are 'warrior-types', but that's the nature of the sport.
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Old 06-18-2008   #13
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Terrell Davis has two rings, 1998 NFL MVP, 1997 Super Bowl MVP, NFL Offensive Player of the Year (x2), Pro Bowler (x3), All-Pro selection (x4), and is the Denver Broncos all-time leading rusher, with 7,607 rushing yards (among other honors).

But he's not in the HoF, and many would argue that he might never be in.

If Davis, with everything he accomplished, cannot make it, I don't really see a good argument for McNair at this point. Lots of football players are 'warrior-types', but that's the nature of the sport.
Problem with Davis was that he accomplished 6,413 yards in his first 4 seasons. The last four seasons of his career he only rushed for 1,194. He only played in 17 games in his final four seasons and actually never played that final season of his career.

Some might liken that to the proverbial "flash in a pan".
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Old 06-18-2008   #14
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Problem with Davis was that he accomplished 6,413 yards in his first 4 seasons. The last four seasons of his career he only rushed for 1,194. He only played in 17 games in his final four seasons and actually never played that final season of his career.

Some might liken that to the proverbial "flash in a pan".
2001, 2002, and 2003 were good years for McNair. They weren't great years, compared to what other QBs have done statistically or with regard to team acclaim. After those three, give me a fourth year that puts McNair in the company of Terrell Davis, or any other flash in the pan. 2005, maybe? He threw for 3161 yards, 16 TDs, and 11 INTs. Statistically, nothing there makes you say "Wow". What did the Titans do in 2005? Nothing that is going to make McNair's career stand out. His career rating of 82.x is nothing to get excited about, either.

Does anyone think of Jeff Garcia as a HOF QB? Here's a basic comparison between the two, just to get you thinking:

McNair
Games: 161
Career PaYd: 31304
PaYd per game: 194.4
Comp %: 60.1
Career YPA: 6.9
Career YPC: 11.5
Career PaTD: 174
Career INT: 119
Career Fumbles: 99
Career Fumbles Lost: 43
Career RuYd: 3590
Career RuTD: 37
Career Rating: 82.8

Garcia
Games: 112
Career PaYd: 22825
PaYd per game: 203.8
Comp %: 61.2
Career YPA: 6.9
Career YPC: 11.3
Career PaTD:149
Career INT:77
Career Fumbles: 52
Career Fumbles Lost: 21
Career RuYd: 1994
Career RuTD: 25
Career Rating: 87.2

Based on statistics, Garcia has as much a shot at the HOF as McNair (which is none, IMO, much less first-ballot). Furthermore, Garcia's best four years are at least the equal of McNair's best four, and you could argue they're superior to McNair's. However, stats don't tell the whole story. This is a team sport, so looking at what McNair's teams accomplished vs. Garcia's should add to the discussion. However, beyond a few memorable playoff games here and there, neither have had their teams win anything of note. Sure, McNair had a SB appearance, but HOF careers are not made on appearances, unless you have a ton of stats to back it up. McNair clearly does not have that.

As I said above - not only is McNair not a first ballot HOF'er, but he's not even a HOF'er. Of course, they gave Al Gore a friggin' Nobel Prize, so I guess anything can happen.
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Old 06-18-2008   #15
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

After going over everyone's stats - I would like to change my view from 1st ballot to eventual HoF. The guy put TEN on the map as a contender every year. He had to be game planned for. Don't underestimate that heart of a warrior angle. His stats do not reflect his value to his team, city and even the league to an extent. Then again, this is on my view.
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Old 06-18-2008   #16
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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I don't see Steve McNair as a HOF QB.

I'd definitely say he's "questionable".



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Old 06-18-2008   #17
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Problem with Davis was that he accomplished 6,413 yards in his first 4 seasons. The last four seasons of his career he only rushed for 1,194. He only played in 17 games in his final four seasons and actually never played that final season of his career.

Some might liken that to the proverbial "flash in a pan".
Gayle Sayers only played 7 years, too. He was only great in four and a half of those years, same as TD. Both had their careers ended because of injuries. Nobody considers Sayers a 'flash in the pan'.

Sayers - 4,956 total yards.
Davis - 7,607 total yards.

TD has pedigree. He earned some high accolades and was surely as much of those two Denver championships as Elway was (John even said as much). The 6,413 yards he gained during his first four seasons were the second highest four-year total in league history. He is one of only four players to gain 2,000 yards in a season. The other three -- Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders and O.J. Simpson -- are either in the Hall of Fame or will be.

'Flash in the pan'? Horse crap to those people that perpetuate such nonsense.

I don't think McNair should get in just because he hung tough for more years. This "warrior" stuff is overrated. Please save that tag for soldiers putting their lives in harms way every day. It diminishes the term when we throw it around for sports figures, who are elite athletes to be sure, but they are just entertainers at the end of the day.
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Old 06-18-2008   #18
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

It appears there's an arguement for practically every player that shouls or should've been inducted. As well as some that already are inducted.

I guess it all boils down to asshats like McClain who are on the Selection Commitee. I mean, how else can you explain situations like Monk's? Or Irvin (I know, I know) for that matter?

BTW, TD was a product of "The System".
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Old 06-18-2008   #19
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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BTW, TD was a product of "The System".
Players make systems work, not the other way around.
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Old 06-18-2008   #20
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Default Re: 2013 Hof

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Gayle Sayers only played 7 years, too. He was only great in four and a half of those years, same as TD. Both had their careers ended because of injuries. Nobody considers Sayers a 'flash in the pan'.

Sayers - 4,956 total yards.
Davis - 7,607 total yards.

TD has pedigree. He earned some high accolades and was surely as much of those two Denver championships as Elway was (John even said as much). The 6,413 yards he gained during his first four seasons were the second highest four-year total in league history. He is one of only four players to gain 2,000 yards in a season. The other three -- Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders and O.J. Simpson -- are either in the Hall of Fame or will be.
Didn't Jamal Lewis break 2000 a few years back?
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