why is Fangio the "golden boy" and Palmer the "Goat"?

[Porky]

Originally Posted by Vinny

We call deep patterns, we send aj out. We send Gaffney out. We send them deep, short, and long. Choosing the WR to throw to falls on the quarterback. When you lock on to your first option then go right to your safety valve you will have an offense that looks much like ours.

First off, wouldn't AJ be the first option a good portion of the time? Secondly, Derrick Armstrong was inactive and instead we had the unstoppable Matt Murphy active. What does that tell you about the game plan? The QB's job is to execute the game plan given to him. Lastly, Capers specifically said on channel 13 (according to people I know who saw it) that Carr executed the game plan exaclty how it was drawn up. Carr is certainly not blameless and he definetely checks down from #1 to last resort quickly, but the coaches are ultimately responsible, just like a manager is responsible for "coaching" his or her employee's.

[Hervoyel]

Matt Murphy's unstoppable? Damn! We should have been using him since opening day!

Damn that Chris Palmer! What could he have been thinking? Damn him!

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Porky

First off, wouldn't AJ be the first option a good portion of the time?

Sure, when he is covered Carr checks straight down to Dom. Just like he went straight down to Miller his first year. Have you not noticed that teams play us this way for a reason? We will get tons of yards but we don't score. 14 points a game doesn't get it, but everyone points to yards as if they were the same as TD's. If you take away AJ you take away our offense because all we do is dump it to our safety valve.

Originally Posted by Porky

Secondly, Derrick Armstrong was inactive and instead we had the unstoppable Matt Murphy active. What does that tell you about the game plan?

It tells me that we don't look at options 2 and 3 enough. Why have them in the game if we don't look at them?

Originally Posted by Porky

The QB's job is to execute the game plan given to him. Lastly, Capers specifically said on channel 13 (according to people I know who saw it) that Carr executed the game plan exaclty how it was drawn up. Carr is certainly not blameless and he definetely checks down from #1 to last resort quickly, but the coaches are ultimately responsible, just like a manager is responsible for "coaching" his or her employee's.

If the coaches don't trust Carr to throw into coverage that tells me a lot about what they think of his ability to win those battles.

[Porky]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Matt Murphy's unstoppable? Damn! We should have been using him since opening day!

Damn that Chris Palmer! What could he have been thinking? Damn him!

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Vinny

It tells me that we don't look at options 2 and 3 enough. Why have them in the game if we don't look at them?

Man that's got me wondering. Maybe next up against the Bears we could sign another TE or two and just not bother with the wideouts. Seriously, we can sign some big ol' no catching TE's and then "four yard's and a cloud of dust" the rest of the day. From time to time Davis could slip out and catch a dink pass but mostly it would just be Davis left and Davis right. No point in Davis up the middle obviously what with McKinney and all.

There's your way to beat the Cover 2.

[Vinny]

Everyone else can throw on the cover 2 but us. Indy is one of the worst in the league.

[Chance_C]

It tells me that we don't look at options 2 and 3 enough. Why have them in the game if we don't look at them?

It was because of the fact that we went into the game with a ball control game plan. Run the ball. What I want to see is some progression towards beating the cover 2. We can run the ball all day and pile up the yards, but if we can't put points on the board we won't win. Derrick Armstrong is a valuable receiver, and him being inactive didn't make sense to me. Wasn't there someone else that could have been inactive, thus allowing him and Murphy in the game?

[Vinny]

Armstrong is averaging one catch a game the last 4 games. It's not like we deactivated a guy we are overworking.

[Chance_C]

And just exactly who's fault is that? He is another valuable receiver who makes plays. If he's in there, it gives the defense someone to worry about. Armstrong should be more of a part of our game plan.

[Vinny]

I only see one man throwing the ball on game day.

[Chance_C]

Armstrong is averaging one catch a game the last 4 games.

and Gaffney has averaged .5 catches over the last 4 games. 0 against Green Bay, 0 against Tennesee, 2 against NY, and 0 against Indy. Hell we should deactivate him too. And Bradford, and Miller....

[Vinny]

That falls on Carr. He has not demonstrated any consistancy finding anything but his first and last options in three years of play.

[Chance_C]

I agree with that but it's hard to go through a complete progression of your options when you have approximately 2 seconds to get rid of the ball, and on top of that they are covered. Look at the games where Carr has had the time and he spread the ball around pretty good. Bottom line is that when the o-line protects Carr, he does a pretty good job. I mean, I can't dig a ditch with a broke shovel, or hammer a nail with a broke hammer, and a pro QB sure as hell can't spread the ball around if he is on his backside more often than not.

[gcolby]

Well, for what it's worth, my opinion is that Palmer needs to go.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by gcolby

Well, for what it's worth, my opinion is that Palmer needs to go.

Under Palmer, Tim Couch had better numbers than Carr did in their first year. Under Palmer, Mark Brunell had the best years of his career. Under Palmer, Drew Bledsoe had his best career years also.

How did Palmer all of a sudden become a bad coach?

[pek281]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Under Palmer, Tim Couch had better numbers than Carr did in their first year. Under Palmer, Mark Brunell had the best years of his career. Under Palmer, Drew Bledsoe had his best career years also.

How did Palmer all of a sudden become a bad coach?

I think it's largely due to the philosophy of Capers. While Palmer is an offensive-minded risk taker, he's gotta play by Capers' rules... Defense will take you to the playoffs, as long as you don't turn the ball over on Offense.

[BigWig]

How bout this?
1. Have Dom be def. coord.
2. Hire new head coach, not sure who?
3. Keep Palmer one more year
4. Try 4 wideouts more often, so Armstrong ( Spiderman) can catch more balls cause he dont drop em much!
5. Have Carr work with the 8 ft ladders again so he doesnt sidearm like he is now
6. Have a gr8 draft
7. Have a 10 win season next year

Thats my 7 step program, better go get a beer now!@

Vinny is making some good points. but Carr looks like a deer in headlights from the beating he has been taking sor far. Wand just look horrible in pass protection. What confidence can you gain in having that guy protecting you? Carr found Gaffney earlier this year what has changed? Dominick Davis and the safety valve. Carr (PAlmer) puts too much emphasis in checking down to him. How many times over have we seen a 3rd and long and Carr passes short to Davis? that is what the play calls for. Why Davis even an option on that type of play?? I heard all the ramblings about throw the ball to AJ more and now Carr is looking to him too much, its him or Davis, Davis or AJ, everyone else is holding their pee-pees in their hand,