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Old 12-13-2004   #21
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oh yeah and i suppose that call really hurt the colts chances of winning huh
--Actually, it has nothing to do with it. Yeah, it came at a bad time for you. Like I said, it sucks. These things have happened to the Colts at bad times too. It's what happens when you have HUMANS making calls.

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They shouldn't be getting all whistle happy until the ball is either out of bounds or underneath somebody who's laying on the ground (or in the endzone).
--Once the play is over, it's over. They have to blow the whistle. I suppose they shouldn't blow the whistle until the pile is UNpiled because someone else may come out with it. The problem is in the replay system. Before replays, these situations didn't come up.

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That and don't let the refs be like gods out on the field.
--Actually, the refs ARE the gods out there. That's their JOB. They make the final judgement, even when respectfully asked to reconsider when a coach throws a red flag. If they weren't the gods out there, you may as not tune in anymore to watch. It's be horrible.

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by the way the freakin whistle hadn't been blown yet on that play.
--Again, it doesn't matter. It was ruled an incomplete pass on the field. That made the play over even though the whistle hadn't been blown yet.

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Here's the thing. They gotta let that play continue. The ref thinks he saw forward motion, but you can't tell me he was really certain about it. He blew the whistle to try and stop EVERYBODY from jumping on the ball. They need to let the play continue and then allow for the review. Just because you sorta, kinda, mighta, thought you saw that the play was over doesn't mean you have to always blow the whistle immediately and screw the defense.
--Nope. The refs actually get PAID to make these kinds of judgement calls. It's their JOB. Did they blow that call? Yep. But he thought he saw the forward motion. What he saw was the arm come forward because it was knocked forward. At game speed, he has to make the call RIGHT THEN. He did that and stopped the play. Not many of us could honestly do it as well as any of these refs. We have the benefit of the replay. They don't, they make the call before it comes up on the Jumbotron.

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the only time that I would think that you might have to pick up a flag is ifthe ball was tipped on a pass interference call and the tip not seen by the back judge.
--Nail on the head, kinda. These guys are making calls at game speed. They may not see something, or their vision may be blocked from something and they make the best call they can. Another ref may have seen something. All info is passed on to the referee (white hat), and he makes the final determination.

Ya'll, you have a good team down there in Houston. They're going to be a force to reckoned with, I think next year. The refs blew some calls, but that wasn't what turned the game. There were blown calls both ways. And believe it or not, it worked both ways in terms of helping the other team, this one was just more visible. And the wrong call. But as long as you have people making the calls, it won't be perfect. I know it's frustrating. Look at the AFCC last year. The Colts receivers got MANHANDLED all day. Really hampered the O, and it was against the rules! But we lost, NE won and went on to win the SB. It happens.

Great game, ya'll. We'll see you next year! By the way, Reliant is SO COOL! Looks like Indy will be getting a retractable roof, too, only I hope we put in FieldTurf.
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Old 12-13-2004   #22
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Originally Posted by El Tejano
I think this game was a bunch of **** and it was obvious the NFL was determined to see Payton Manning break the record. It seemed as if the officials were going out of their way to give Payton the ball back. How convenient it is to make the "correct" calls for this team but make some piece of **** intentional grounding call last week on a miscommunication from QB to receiver. This makes two weeks in a row.

I really feel the NFL wanted their Poster Child to break this record now.
have to agree Tejano. I was looking right at Dunta coming off the top corner around the back side & thru Peyton knocking the ball out before he ever tried to shovel it or what ever the hell they called. The ball came out & Walker I think grabbed it simulstanously as they blew the whistle, I figured for a change of possession. I was standing & screaming ALLRIGHT GREAT PLAY, the next moment I was screaming WHAT THE HELL, THAT WAS A FUMBLE, THAT WAS A FUMBLE. Needless to say I was'nt the only pissed off fan at the game, just that I was paying close attention to the entire play unfold in front of my eyes and the results were completly different than warranted.

speaks to conspiracy theory

the next moment the refs where handing the ball back to the Colt offense.
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Old 12-13-2004   #23
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IMO, I'm more concerned with the false starts and the sacks as well as our QB productivity than a call made by a ref. Our team shouldn't have allowed themselves to be put in a position where a call by a ref would dictate the flow of this game. Was it a bogus call, I think so but did it cost us the game, no.
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Old 12-13-2004   #24
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you can't say it did or did'nt we'll never know for sure. momentum is fickle

that being said I sure would like all of those things too but thats no more real than any other aspect of a game including the rules and how they are applied.
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Old 12-13-2004   #25
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YES the nfl wanted manning to break the record on us, and the officals seemed determined to do just that. And dont give me all that **** about we're whinning, maybe its just we're not blind
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Old 12-13-2004   #26
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Originally Posted by Doug
Our team shouldn't have allowed themselves to be put in a position where a call by a ref would dictate the flow of this game.
Football is a game of momentum. I totally disagree that a very bad call cannot effect a game.
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Old 12-13-2004   #27
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If you add the TD Walker would've/should've counted the score is 24-23 on that alone. Let's not also forget that when James fumbled, it was clearly recovered by Polk and they immediately (without compromise) said that it was still Indy ball. If the correct call is made there, you can wipe off 7 points from that drive and the Texans aren't down 14-0 to the Colts. However, Manning was very close to throwing in the redzone where most of his TDs have come from so hey--Colts ball.
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Old 12-13-2004   #28
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Am I the only one had a feeling of dread come over them when Hochuli walked out of the tunnel before the game?

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Old 12-13-2004   #29
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Originally Posted by El Tejano
If you add the TD Walker would've/should've counted the score is 24-23 on that alone.
wait, do you mean on the play where you guys said it should have been intentional grounding?
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Old 12-13-2004   #30
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Hochuli should be tested for steroids.
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Old 12-13-2004   #31
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Welcome to Houston Pro Football Hell. Historically we have always been screwed by the officials. Anyone remember Renfro's corner of the endzone catch or the dreaded "inadvertent whistle"? I have come to expect it.
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Old 12-13-2004   #32
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Originally Posted by LenMan
Welcome to Houston Pro Football Hell. Historically we have always been screwed by the officials. Anyone remember Renfro's corner of the endzone catch or the dreaded "inadvertent whistle"? I have come to expect it.

Yea I hear you but I'm not really complaining about the officiating. There's enough crappy calls to go around. However I told my wife during the coin flip that he'd nail us before the game was over. I'm not implying (nor would any sane person on this board) that the best team lost but I sure would like to be able to go back in time and see how things play out if Sharper scoops up the fumble and runs the other way with it.
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Old 12-13-2004   #33
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Originally Posted by coltsrock
----Once the play is over, it's over. They have to blow the whistle. I suppose they shouldn't blow the whistle until the pile is UNpiled because someone else may come out with it. The problem is in the replay system. Before replays, these situations didn't come up.
The play wasn't over and nobody had to blow any whistle because it wasn't over until they did. They need to change that rule where you have to blow the whistle just because you THINK the play is over. Defenses get COMPLETELY BURNED because of that way too often. He blew the whistle because he was about 51% sure that that play was over. That's a STUPID, STUPID rule.

OK, so maybe we would still have lost, but I'm still really tired of that kind of ****. Instant replay helps them get things right, but it can't do it if they are too hardheaded to change some of the stupid rules that were designed to work before instant replay. Maybe when it has a major effect on a Superbowl or Championship game they'll change the rule. Nah, it's the NFL. They'll just get emarrassed and do away with instant replay again.

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Originally Posted by coltsrock
The problem is in the replay system.
Really? You mean the replay is wrong? That can't be right. Payton can't be sacked. I hope you're talking about how stupid it is to have to stop a play that needs to continue and be reviewed later.
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Old 12-13-2004   #34
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Hochuli should be tested for steroids.
LOL!! I want this dude to come and play for my team.

About the REFS: I understand how you can MISS a call because someone is in your line of sight, you're too far away, you're hit by a player and on your rump, etc. However, there has been so much BS this year with refs completely blowing it because they do not execute the rules correctly.

Examples: last night in the Redskins game, being in the final 2mins of the game, a play that clearly gets a first down but is marked way short - they don't go to the official's replay until the Skins call a timeout and they have a chance to think about it <- inexcusable. Last Mon night, Keyshaun's TD catch in the final 2mins, clearly not a catch and never looked at <- inexcusable. You won't like this one - the play in the Colts/Texans game where Manning threw the ball right before being sacked. The ball hit Edgerrin James (an eligible reciever) and the play is called a sack (BTW, Texans fans wanted "intentional grounding" but the result was the same - loss of down and ruled a sack). Horrible call because the rule states that if it hits an eligible reciever, he has a chance to catch it, and the call should have been 'incomplete'. Again, poor execution of the rules. Finally, the famous Peyton fumble recovered by Texans (again, an identical situation Colts fans saw last week vs TENN) that was challanged and actually ruled a fumble, the correct call but Colts retain possession. I call this BAD refereeing because the whistle blew so quickly. They need to let the play CONTINUE and then they can decide amongst themselves if it was actually an incomplete pass! They have the power to overturn themselves and if they don't then it can be challanged. I feel like I've seen complete mental breakdowns in refereeing this year and it sucks.

Anyhow, my condolences on the loss. I wish you guys weren't in our division because I like the Texans. Sweetest logo in the league. Peas ...piece ... peace
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Old 12-14-2004   #35
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Hochuli sucks Toro's "mountain oysters". His favoritism is more obvious than those extreme makeover pecs and bi-sex....errr um.. ..bi-ceps that he displays. It's a disgrace for someone like him to blatantly make bad calls. These refs' calls should be over-ruled when they are as obvious as they are. Respect my arse..if you don't repremand these Ref's calls such as some of the calls Hochi has made in the last few games, it becomes rampant.
Refs like him play God on the field because the NFL allows them to do so, and they don't have the skills to be real football players.
Note: Not all Refs are biased and make bad calls. But whe the obvious stares you right in the face, there should be some type of grievance that coaches can take to overturn the ruling of the refs, even after the game. Penalize them monetarily or with suspension for making crappy calls, especially after the call has been reviewed and they stick to their guns when it is so obvious that they blew the call.
Assinine calls like this cause a Team to either lose a game or lose momentum.
Don't let these guys determine the outcome of the game.
A Ref should be impartial, which is more than I can say for this Hoochie butthole. Somebody poke him with a fork and deflate his ego. He's way over-done.
I can accept calls against our team when they are legit. Open your eyes Hooch or are you somebody's biatch!?!

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Old 12-14-2004   #36
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A Ref should be impartial
What about when Hochuli left his mike on while explaining a call to the coaching staff and he turned to Peyton and said "you know you can't spike the ball out of the shotgun, right?" To which Peyton said "Uh....yeah." It wasn't audible in the stadium but the guys in the booth heard it. That would be called coaching, and refs shouldn't really be having those conversations with players. Now if he would be explaining it after it happened, yes, but not before.

Bad calls happen. Tennessee got a really bad one last night. It doesn't only happen to us.
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Old 12-14-2004   #37
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Look...it was bad call...no offense intended, but if the calls went the Texans way, all of you who are FURIOUS would not be complaining. While stationed in Cali, I got the opportunity to try my hand at refereeing. Granted, this was basketball, but the point that I am going to make is on the same premise.

We started ref'ing games on film. We studied the rule books, and took test after test after test. We were graded, and the top 10% of us moved on to ref actual games. We started with HS basketball games, and the top performers there went on to the college ranks, and so on and so on. Those HS games were already at a speed that it was difficult to make the right calls. I could not imagine what the college game was like. Fortunately for me, my military commitments would not give me the time off to ref the college games, and I had to withdraw from the program.

What that experience gave me was a GREAT understanding and sympathy for referees, and the job that they do. I no longer question the umpire in my softball leagues, because he is human, and prone to make mistakes. If I get a bad call in my pickup b-ball leagues, I don't complain...I just go to the other end of the floor.

Oh, and for you conspiracy theorists who think the NFL is "in on" PM's getting the record, I'm about as tired of that garbage as I am of Reggie Miller's crying to the NBA about small market teams. And Uncle Reg is probably one of my favorite all time basketball players. If PM were the Texans QB, you would be defending him with all your fingertips on these message boards.

Great game Sunday. The Texans showed me that they are a force to be reckoned with...and I think this off season will be different from previous ones. I think you'll see a lot more Carr and the offense working together to get the rapport that Manning has with his receivers.
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Old 12-14-2004   #38
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I don't know about all this conspiracy stuff either, but blowing the whistle so soon was a bonehead move. When he did it, he was saying, "I'm 100% sure that that was a forward motion pass." How can you be so sure when a QB gets hit and throws the ball in the dirt (I mean grass, lol) and not even in the direction of a receiver or in the direction that he was even looking when it left his hand? You can't. Referees in the NFL are whistle happy. The idea is to blow the whistle before anyone can start scrambling for the ball and also so they'll have less play to decipher in the first place. It's an automatic reaction. Blow the whistle and ALWAYS give the ball back to the offense--almost like DO OVER!

It's kind of like the call in basketball where, if you have the ball, you can run into anyone and throw the ball up at the hoop, because it's ALWAYS a foul on the defensive player, unless he's been standing there for an eternity waiting for you to run into him. [I could go on and on about the rediculous way games are called in basketball. I rooted for Charles Barkley as a rocket, but he was footketball player.] And it's the same exact problem: TOO MANY WHISTLES.

I understand what you're saying about refereeing (stange word) being a tough job, but there's a rule there somewhere that needs to be changed. Maybe it's an unwritten rule. Here's the jest of it: STOP ENDING PLAYS THAT AREN'T OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know what they should have had to do after it was decided that they had made a mistake blowing the whistle? This would embarrass the officials and I love it. They should have had to flip the coin to see who gets the ball where it landed. With all the fans at the game and on TV and, no doubt, on the news everywhere later, the officials have to flip the coin in the middle of a game to decide who would have recovered it, because they GOOOOOOFED AGAIN.

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Old 12-14-2004   #39
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Originally Posted by HJam72
I don't know about all this conspiracy stuff either, but blowing the whistle so soon was a bonehead move. When he did it, he was saying, "I'm 100% sure that that was a forward motion pass." How can you be so sure when a QB gets hit and throws the ball in the dirt (I mean grass, lol) and not even in the direction of a receiver or in the direction that he was even looking when it left his hand? You can't. Referees in the NFL are whistle happy. The idea is to blow the whistle before anyone can start scrambling for the ball and also so they'll have less play to decipher in the first place. It's an automatic reaction. Blow the whistle and ALWAYS give the ball back to the offense--almost like DO OVER!

It's kind of like the call in basketball where, if you have the ball, you can run into anyone and throw the ball up at the hoop, because it's ALWAYS a foul on the defensive player, unless he's been standing there for an eternity waiting for you to run into him. [I could go on and on about the rediculous way games are called in basketball. I rooted for Charles Barkley as a rocket, but he was footketball player.] And it's the same exact problem: TOO MANY WHISTLES.

I understand what you're saying about refereeing (stange word) being a tough job, but there's a rule there somewhere that needs to be changed. Maybe it's an unwritten rule. Here's the jest of it: STOP ENDING PLAYS THAT AREN'T OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know what they should have had to do after it was decided that they had made a mistake blowing the whistle? This would embarrass the officials and I love it. They should have had to flip the coin to see who gets the ball where it landed. With all the fans at the game and on TV and, no doubt, on the news everywhere later, the officials have to flip the coin in the middle of a game to decide who would have recovered it, because they GOOOOOOFED AGAIN.
while i understand your frustration...flipping a coin MIGHT embarass the refs, but that is the only thing it would accomplish. The teams would get screwed, and you can rest assured that Your team will get screwed more than mine, but I'll say mine gets screwed more than yours, and it will just be another thread on the MB.

When refs make mistakes like this, they get hit in the wallet...they are skipped over when the schedule is made out, and FORGET working the playoffs. The league does it's job in recruiting these guys, and for the most part, they do a good job. They make mistakes, and when they do, they appear to do so in bunches...

I would encourage any of you who are vehemently complaining to sign up to referee...ref a few games, and see if you can do what they do, even on a rec league game. I think you will see just how difficult it is. Being an armchair referee is as easy as being a Monday Morning QB.
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Old 12-14-2004   #40
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Originally Posted by txhoosier
Being an armchair referee is as easy as being a Monday Morning QB.
Amen to that. Sometimes I have to see the replay every time to be sure I was right or not. We should add a bit of reality tv to the refs' lives for when they blow obvious calls A LOT. Let's throw them on an island with the team they screwed over and come back in about a week. Any takers on that?
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