Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2008   #1
b0ng
Ooops
 
b0ng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 34
Posts: 7,768
Rep Power: 80379 b0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respected
Default [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Article found here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Williamson
2. Mario Williams, DE, Houston Texans: Williams will secure Charley Casserly's legacy. Casserly's last move as Houston's general manager was to take Williams over Reggie Bush in the 2006 draft. Casselry was hammered for the decision initially, and the criticism only intensified when Williams struggled as a rookie (4½ sacks).

But Williams came on strong last season and was dominant in the final month. His 14 sacks tied for third in the NFL. This high ranking for Williams might be considered a reach by many, but this is a player who has already figured out the NFL and will be dominant for the next several years.
Love by ESPN. Who knew. I guess they don't all hate him now?

I guess this question is worth it now:

Is Mario Williams getting a lot of love for a really good second half of 2007? Is he teetering on going from draft bust, to over-hyped?

Last edited by b0ng; 05-19-2008 at 01:44 PM.
b0ng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #2
barrett
Hall of Fame
 
barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,687
Rep Power: 18818 barrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Love It!!!!
barrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #3
Goldensilence
hipster elite
 
Goldensilence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Austin
Age: 32
Posts: 5,143
Rep Power: 13669 Goldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Secure what legacy?

I hate how ESPN makes it seem like Mario Williams was Casserly's swan song/ final gift for Houston. What about the past bungled Picks or trades? I guess when shoved in their face the golden boy failed miserably and with Vince Struggling they have no choice but to in a round about way say they were wrong.
Goldensilence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #4
barrett
Hall of Fame
 
barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,687
Rep Power: 18818 barrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

either way, he was the GM at the time. It was his last draft. It was a great draft. He doesn't deserve all of the credit. He may not deserve any of it. But we don't know that.

What we DO know is that Mario Williams and the Houston Texans are beginning to see the light at the end of the expansion franchise / "habitual looser" / "draft F-ups" tunnel! and the Media is recognizing it!
barrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #5
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,820
Rep Power: 14626 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

I also hate how they say we passed up Reggie for Mario. They hardly acknowledge the fact that most of us in Houston feel we passed up Vince for Mario.

But no matter which way you look at it, we made the right choice.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #6
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,452
Rep Power: 56780 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

I beleive Mario was Kubiak & his coaches pick. Casserly was initially for Bush & Dan Reeves, who was brought in as consultant was in favour of dumping Carr & taking QB, Vince Young. in the end & with the signing issue resovled going with Mario they came to a consensus opinion, at least thats how I rememeberd it
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #7
kravix
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 9 kravix is on the Pro-Bowl ballotkravix is on the Pro-Bowl ballot
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

It should be a pretty easy assumption to to say that CC had squat to do with that draft and the picks based upon his previous drafting record. He had two good draft picks and 3-4 more ok draft picks in 4 years.

Since Kubes has been here we have had more good draft picks than CC could probably claim for his entire career.
kravix is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 05-19-2008   #8
barrett
Hall of Fame
 
barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,687
Rep Power: 18818 barrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respectedbarrett is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by kravix View Post
It should be a pretty easy assumption to to say that CC had squat to do with that draft and the picks based upon his previous drafting record. He had two good draft picks and 3-4 more ok draft picks in 4 years.

Since Kubes has been here we have had more good draft picks than CC could probably claim for his entire career.
it's very easy to make assumptions. that's the problem.

i'm in no way sticking up for CC. I'm just saying, who cares... Mario is getting credit, the Texans are getting credit.
barrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #9
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,092
Rep Power: 90172 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
I also hate how they say we passed up Reggie for Mario. They hardly acknowledge the fact that most of us in Houston feel we passed up Vince for Mario.

But no matter which way you look at it, we made the right choice.
I disagree with that. VY supporters were definitely more vocal, and more hardcore about it, but in terms of numbers, I think Reggie still had it. (If for no other reason than the early renewing of Carr).
ChampionTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #10
NBT
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: S.E. Texas Coast
Posts: 241
Rep Power: 124 NBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respectedNBT is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Casserly was weak. He let Capers make all the decisions when he was the head coach, and in the one draft where Kubiak was the head coach, Casserly gets all the credit because he was the G.M.? Jeez what a load!
NBT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #11
b0ng
Ooops
 
b0ng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 34
Posts: 7,768
Rep Power: 80379 b0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

I think you guys are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, whether Williams was a Casserly pick or not, I didn't see too many of the other NFL franchises and try to swoop up the smart GM who picked Williams.

I think that's the most telling part of this whole saga.
b0ng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #12
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
 
Texans_Chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,248
Rep Power: 74671 Texans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
I beleive Mario was Kubiak & his coaches pick. Casserly was initially for Bush & Dan Reeves, who was brought in as consultant was in favour of dumping Carr & taking QB, Vince Young. in the end & with the signing issue resovled going with Mario they came to a consensus opinion, at least thats how I rememeberd it
I believe that from at least what John McClain has said, Casserly wanted to announce the Bush pick early. There were some media leaks that said Bush was the guy. Reeves said why decide so early, let's make sure. Kubiak said same thing.

Casserly ended up saying Mario was the top defensive player on the board and Bush was the top offensive player on the board, and we went offense. Casserly was very high on Mario, saying he graded out higher than Julius Peppers.

Reeves said that the Texans should look at Young, even if they were keeping Carr. This, of course, made little sense salary cap wise to invest that much money in the QB position. If Reeves thought Carr was an issue and had lost the lockerroom, he should have pushed the organization not to keep him. Reeves specifically said that Carr was not a problem for the organization.

Mario was not on Reeves radar.
__________________
More? Please check out Ultimate Texans Chronicle Blog & Steph Stradley Blog & Twitter @StephStradley
Texans_Chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #13
tulexan
Hall of Fame
 
tulexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 5,080
Rep Power: 28 tulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famer
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

I believe there was a Sporting News article that was inside the draft room for the Texans and said that Casserly was high on Mario very early and Kubiak fell in love with his potential after watching film on him.

I know the article has been posted in this forum before.
tulexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #14
tulexan
Hall of Fame
 
tulexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 5,080
Rep Power: 28 tulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famer
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

found it

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...ic.php?t=88233
tulexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #15
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,249
Rep Power: 169923 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan View Post
I believe there was a Sporting News article that was inside the draft room for the Texans and said that Casserly was high on Mario very early and Kubiak fell in love with his potential after watching film on him.
A lot of people were high on Mario. When he entered the draft, Mario was considered a top 5 pick. Really, nowhere in the article does it state that Casserly didn't want to announce early that Bush was the pick. Coaching candidates were asked to look at tapes of Bush and describe how they would implement him in the offense. Attner wasn't around the Texans offices for those discussions.

From the Attner piece in TSN:
Quote:
For Kubiak, this decision about No. 1 will become a watershed moment in his early months as a head coach. He already made one franchise-shaping choice when he advised owner Bob McNair and Casserly to pay David Carr an $8 million bonus to retain the quarterback's services for at least the next three years.
The decision to keep Carr was made before the Texans interviewed coaching candidates. That wasn't Kubiak's decision. That he agreed in keeping Carr was probably a prerequisite in landing the job.

Not that Kubiak was being dishonest in his desire to keep Carr on, or in his final evaluation of Mario being the pick. Just that he didn't have autonomy in making those choices. In the end, they were Bob McNair's calls.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #16
aj.
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,769
Rep Power: 658 aj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

In terms of Casserly's legacy, if he gets any of the credit for the Mario selection then he also deserves some of the blame for the litany of distastrous coaching and player personnel decisions during the first four years of his tenure.

I'm sure Casserly had a vote on the Mario pick but I think McNair had learned enough by April '06 to not allow his lame duck GM to unilateraly or even highly influence a 50 million dollar decision for him that would affect his organization for years to come.

Kubiak said during his first ever public speaking event as the Texans HC that Carr was his guy - meaning it was a condition of getting the job. It would take McNair several more months to finally see the light.

Last edited by aj.; 05-19-2008 at 06:52 PM.
aj. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008   #17
BornOrange
All Pro
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 45
Posts: 556
Rep Power: 15 BornOrange was voted MVPBornOrange was voted MVPBornOrange was voted MVPBornOrange was voted MVPBornOrange was voted MVP
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Another big factor, if not the deciding factor, was the controversy about Bush's relationship with several agents while he was in college. I think Casserly and McNair were concerned that would blow up much more than it has so far and they didn't want to be associated with the first Heisman winner who had to forfeit his trophy.

Combined with the difficulty that they were having in negotiating a contract with Bush, Williams started looking like a much safer pick.
BornOrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008   #18
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,060
Rep Power: 41444 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

If we would have taken Bush we would have had ~27m wrapped up in three offensive skill position players (Carr, AJ and Bush) for four years on a 102M cap that does go up incrementally. We would have a lopsided differential between the offensive and defensive units to the tune of ~62m vs ~40M.

In essence, if we took Bush the Texans situation would have been more like the 2005 Texan campaign for many more years.

FWIW, I was told by a very reputable source that Kubiak wanted Bush when he joined the Texans.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008   #19
nunusguy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,991
Rep Power: 185 nunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by BornOrange View Post
Another big factor, if not the deciding factor, was the controversy about Bush's relationship with several agents while he was in college. I think Casserly and McNair were concerned that would blow up much more than it has so far and they didn't want to be associated with the first Heisman winner who had to forfeit his trophy.

Combined with the difficulty that they were having in negotiating a contract with Bush, Williams started looking like a much safer pick.
That's the version of the Texans & their 2006 Draft saga that I've always understood to be so far as how it all went down with Mario & Bush.
Possibly choosing VY was preempted by a pre-draft decision by McNair & Casserly to retain Carr.
As far as trading the pick, I dunno about the latest version of the story about any opportunities the Texans may have had ? I've heard the Jets
were interested because they wanted Bush, but others are skeptical they
or any other team made a bona fide offer to the Texans for their top pick ?
nunusguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008   #20
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 41
Posts: 5,777
Rep Power: 63855 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: [ESPN] Strahan passing torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
If we would have taken Bush we would have had ~27m wrapped up in three offensive skill position players (Carr, AJ and Bush) for four years on a 102M cap that does go up incrementally. We would have a lopsided differential between the offensive and defensive units to the tune of ~62m vs ~40M.

In essence, if we took Bush the Texans situation would have been more like the 2005 Texan campaign for many more years.

FWIW, I was told by a very reputable source that Kubiak wanted Bush when he joined the Texans.
Well, Kubiak himself said he wanted Bush. It was later into the process after watch Mario on tape that Kubiak became intrigued by him and approached Casserly about his opinion. After the two met about Mario, that's when the Mario Williams train started moving.

Anyway, that's the story that Kubiak tells. I think Casserly was trying to trade out of the spot the whole time- that's why they were floating VYoung's name out there for so long as well as RBush.
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger