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Old 05-15-2008   #1
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Default Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

I've been pondering the Spygate mess and after hearing Walsh's account of how detailed they were in filming signals and the lengths that were taken to keep it hidden, I find one thing missing that needs to be addressed.

Bellicheat has never admitted purposely cheating. His admission is a glossed over "misinterpretation of the rules".

I think to close this thing completely, he needs to say it.
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Old 05-15-2008   #2
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

Dan Patrick (ESPN) made a great analogy about this situation. He said Belicheck is like Richard Nixon during the '72 election when he was just killing McGovern, but Nixon ordered the Watergate break-in anyway.

It's a shame, because the Patriots players will have to bear the sins of their HC's decisions.
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Old 05-15-2008   #3
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

I think Billecheck needs to be banned from the league, for one year. & the Patriots need to suffer a salary cap penalty.

I thought it was awful smug of them to extend Billecheck's contract the day after the league punished them.

& I think their cheating goes a lot deeper than what's been let on so far.

Think about it, the only Dynasty in the Salary cap era?? We've got more parity in the league than ever before, yet they've been better than just competitive for years?? and they've done it with "avg" players?? Not counting Randy Moss of course..

IMHO, they've wronged the NFL & it's fans much worse than the PacMan Jones', Chris Henry's & Ricky Williams in the league.
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Old 05-25-2008   #4
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

Patriots' Belichick says Walsh isn't credible

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BOSTON - New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick lashed out at the team's former video assistant Friday, saying in a televised interview that Matt Walsh was a low-level staffer who was fired for "poor job performance." "There's not a lot of credibility," Belichick said in an interview broadcast on "CBS Evening News."

"You know, he's tried to make it seem like we're buddies, and belong to the same book club and all. That's really a long, long stretch."

Belichick acknowledged that he was wrong about NFL rules prohibiting filming opponents signals but insisted there was no intent to hide what he was doing.

"I made a mistake," he said in the interview. "I was wrong. I was wrong."

That rationale has already been rejected by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who fined the coach $500,000 and docked the Patriots $250,000 and its first-round draft pick.

"I didn't accept Bill Belichick's explanation for what happened," Goodell said Tuesday, "and I still don't to this day."

But Belichick repeated that Walsh had been fired for "poor job performance" and for making a tape recording of a meeting with player personnel director Scott Pioli. Belichick has said he didn't even know Walsh.

"For him to talk about game-planning and strategy and play-calling and how he advised coordinators, it's embarrassing; it's absurd," Belichick said. "He didn't have any knowledge of football. He was our third video assistant."

In an interview with HBO scheduled to air Friday night on "Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel," Walsh dismissed Belichick's attempts to minimize the impact of the taping. Walsh told HBO he was coached on how to evade NFL rules, and that team officials instructed him on ways to avoid detection.

"When I was doing it, I understood what we were doing to be wrong," Walsh said. "Coach Belichick's explanation for having misinterpreted the rules, to me, that really didn't sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through to hide what we were doing."

Belichick denied telling Walsh to hide what he was doing.

"You look at the tape. You see him filming the game," the coach told CBS. "You tell me how discrete it is."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080517/...zTRbnXODjIyLQF
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Old 05-25-2008   #5
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Patriots' Belichick says Walsh isn't credible
Belichick also said he couldn't pick Walsh out of a lineup. I suppose perhaps that's true, but if it is, then how could he (Belichick) credibly comment on Walsh's football knowledge - or lack thereof.

It takes a pretty fair amount of suspended belief/Patriot goggles to believe BB when he says it was a mistake and he didn't realize he was violating the rules.

Now with the Injured Reserve thing coming out (mentioned by Walsh, confirmed by at least one former player), it's tough not to at least acknowledge that there's a strong possibility that needed or not, cheating's just in Belichick's coaching DNA.
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Old 05-25-2008   #6
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

Belichick is the one who isn't credible.....he's the one that's been lying from the get go. Personally I'll always believe the whistle blower over the guy being fingered and the one who has the most to lose any day. (Which is why I also know Brian Mcnamee is telling the truth and Roger Clemens is just a lying scum bag.)
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Old 05-25-2008   #7
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

personally, I don't give a flying flip. It's over and done with. I wish people would get over it and move on to someting else. He got caught. He got fined. He will be under scrutiny from now on. I'm just tired of hearing about it.

I don't know how much involvement Bill B. had in all of this, and I really don't care. This whole thing strikes me as a guy that got fired, and will never work in the NFL again, trying to work out a deal so he can get money out of it.
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Old 05-25-2008   #8
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Originally Posted by vtech9 View Post
This whole thing strikes me as a guy that got fired, and will never work in the NFL again, trying to work out a deal so he can get money out of it.
Yeah, because that also explains why some of his ex-players are now coming forward with even more rules that Bill Belichick "misinterpeted".
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Old 05-25-2008   #9
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

TC had a good read about Walsh and the NFL and the agreement they have about the tapes and info
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/...d-review-of-w/
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Old 05-25-2008   #10
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think Billecheck needs to be banned from the league, for one year. & the Patriots need to suffer a salary cap penalty.

I thought it was awful smug of them to extend Billecheck's contract the day after the league punished them.

& I think their cheating goes a lot deeper than what's been let on so far.

Think about it, the only Dynasty in the Salary cap era?? We've got more parity in the league than ever before, yet they've been better than just competitive for years?? and they've done it with "avg" players?? Not counting Randy Moss of course..

IMHO, they've wronged the NFL & it's fans much worse than the PacMan Jones', Chris Henry's & Ricky Williams in the league.

Uh their QB is pretty good there as well. I am NOT a PATS fan at all but their winning goes much deeper than just saying they cheat. They have great players at the skill positions, they have a great OL, and they play smart. To me it's more a matter of why they cheated? They have the players to impose their will on teams. It was all unnecessary.
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Old 05-25-2008   #11
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Uh their QB is pretty good there as well. I am NOT a PATS fan at all but their winning goes much deeper than just saying they cheat. They have great players at the skill positions, they have a great OL, and they play smart. To me it's more a matter of why they cheated? They have the players to impose their will on teams. It was all unnecessary.
Yes, they do have a great QB and have had great players, but so have the Colts and the Colts only have one Superbowl to show for it, while the Pats have had a "unfair edge" over other teams.

Sometimes I wonder if the Colts would have more titles is Peyton (whose great at breaking down defenses) was allowed to know all the other team's defensive signals?
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Old 05-25-2008   #12
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

really it doesn't matter because belichek completely screwed himself and his team out of having undisputed titles. People are always going to wonder about their win vs the greatest show on turf, or their superbowl win vs the panthers.

I find that the most delicious part of this affair. Everybody will always go, "Well the Pats were good, but it came out that they were cheating in 07 and then just crumbled away."
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Old 05-25-2008   #13
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

I'm interested to see how good the Patriots for the next few years. If they're still doing extremely well, then all this spygate stuff (which I've grown tired of, I could care less anymore) doesn't really matter.
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Old 05-25-2008   #14
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWJD View Post
Uh their QB is pretty good there as well. I am NOT a PATS fan at all but their winning goes much deeper than just saying they cheat. They have great players at the skill positions, they have a great OL, and they play smart. To me it's more a matter of why they cheated? They have the players to impose their will on teams. It was all unnecessary.
they have a great OL? did you watch the Super Bowl? that 'great OL' got completely owned and didn't look that good against San Diego either. You can be a good OL and if your QB sucks, the OL will look horrible. The first 5 years of our franchise come to mind. In addition to that, a good QB can make an average OL look pretty damn good, which is what I believe is happening in New England. The bottom line is that the Texans have the same talent that New England does but we are only one year into running a real offense due to the pathetic excuse of a QB that used to play for the Texans.....and no, I'm not talking about Tony Banks.

As far as the Pats go, they are forever tainted and nothing made me smile like 18-1. Belicheat is a cheat of a head coach and pretty much a worthless douchebag of a human being. Luckily for Belicheat, Goodell/NFL didn't want a landslide of bad press and lawsuits so they destroyed the evidence, which would obviously largely implicate Belicheat as a cheater to a far greater magnitude.

The punishment was a total joke. Belicheat should have been suspended at least for ONE GAME for crying out loud. We all know Kraft is covering Bill's fine. Kraft has three reasons to love Bill and like any other billionaire, they don't really care how you succeed...as long as you succeed. ethics tend to be an ancient word nowadays....

I guarantee you one thing, the next time the Belicheat comes to Reliant, I will have a nice 18-1 sign waiting for him.
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Old 05-26-2008   #15
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think Billecheck needs to be banned from the league, for one year. & the Patriots need to suffer a salary cap penalty.

I thought it was awful smug of them to extend Billecheck's contract the day after the league punished them.

& I think their cheating goes a lot deeper than what's been let on so far.

Think about it, the only Dynasty in the Salary cap era?? We've got more parity in the league than ever before, yet they've been better than just competitive for years?? and they've done it with "avg" players?? Not counting Randy Moss of course..

IMHO, they've wronged the NFL & it's fans much worse than the PacMan Jones', Chris Henry's & Ricky Williams in the league.
Well, I've read a whole slew of gross overestimations of just how much this "cheating" actually affected the Pats W-L column, but this one tops them all.

Kudos!
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Old 05-26-2008   #16
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

Do you guy's really believe the Pats are the only team doing this kinda stuff ? ....... They just got caught .
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Old 05-26-2008   #17
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Originally Posted by corrosion View Post
Do you guy's really believe the Pats are the only team doing this kinda stuff ? ....... They just got caught .
Actually on NFL Live they talked to a few long time NFL vets who have played on multiple teams and all of them said, they've never heard of such a thing....especially players on IR practicing with the team, they said most of the time IR players aren't even on the same practice field as the regular team.
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Old 05-26-2008   #18
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Originally Posted by corrosion View Post
Do you guy's really believe the Pats are the only team doing this kinda stuff ? ....... They just got caught .
Oh, that is just great. The Pat's get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so naturally the whole NFL is guilty by association. Whatever happened to good old fashioned integrity?
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Old 05-27-2008   #19
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
they have a great OL? did you watch the Super Bowl? that 'great OL' got completely owned and didn't look that good against San Diego either. You can be a good OL and if your QB sucks, the OL will look horrible. The first 5 years of our franchise come to mind. In addition to that, a good QB can make an average OL look pretty damn good, which is what I believe is happening in New England. The bottom line is that the Texans have the same talent that New England does but we are only one year into running a real offense due to the pathetic excuse of a QB that used to play for the Texans.....and no, I'm not talking about Tony Banks.

As far as the Pats go, they are forever tainted and nothing made me smile like 18-1. Belicheat is a cheat of a head coach and pretty much a worthless douchebag of a human being. Luckily for Belicheat, Goodell/NFL didn't want a landslide of bad press and lawsuits so they destroyed the evidence, which would obviously largely implicate Belicheat as a cheater to a far greater magnitude.

The punishment was a total joke. Belicheat should have been suspended at least for ONE GAME for crying out loud. We all know Kraft is covering Bill's fine. Kraft has three reasons to love Bill and like any other billionaire, they don't really care how you succeed...as long as you succeed. ethics tend to be an ancient word nowadays....

I guarantee you one thing, the next time the Belicheat comes to Reliant, I will have a nice 18-1 sign waiting for him.


I stand by what I say regarding their OL. They had a dominating OL this last year. The games were usually over in the first half because Brady had time to throw and had already thrown a games worth of TD's in the first half. If the Texans had the same talent they'd have been in the playoffs...don't get your logic there at all. But to each his own. I don't judge them by the SB. Their OL was stout all year.
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Old 05-27-2008   #20
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Default Re: Bellicheat needs to make a real apology

more news on the Pats

Quote:
Cheaters never win: The risk of breaking rules not worth reward


Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh and I have only one thing in common. We both drew our paychecks for a while from one of the most detail-oriented and successful teams in the NFL, but also a franchise that wasn't afraid to break the rules.

Walsh's comments to commissioner Roger Goodell earlier this week that New England had players on injured reserve participate in practice wasn't news to me. I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, "Every team in the league does that." I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

Basically, the Patriots would put a player on IR, knowing it meant he couldn't play in a game or practice with the team for the remainder of the season. By skirting the rules and practicing him anyway, it allowed them to develop his skills during the year. A side benefit is that they were also able to give some of the older players less repetitions and, therefore, additional rest.

Bending rules is a fact of life in the NFL. From ballboys allowing the opposing team's footballs to get soaked, to hotel employees scouring rooms for game plan sheets after a team heads to the stadium, there are several ways to get in on the act. Seemingly no organization, no matter how accomplished or destitute it may be, is immune from the win-at-all-costs mentality. Some teams cheat and never get caught. Others simply refrain from breaking the rules but bend them right to the breaking point.

I remember a game earlier in my career during which I was assigned to stand on the sidelines and watch Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer on every play, dutifully looking for the specific signal I had been told to watch for. Once I identified that Zimmer had in fact called for the blitz, I alerted a member of the coaching staff, who waved a red flag to the offensive linemen on the field, making sure they were aware that the designated blitz was coming. I distinctly remember times when I wasn't sure whether Zimmer had signaled the blitz, and deciding I wouldn't say anything to our staff unless I was completely confident. It wouldn't have been good, of course, for my fellow linemen to be looking for and anticipating a blitz that never came. The thing is, although I think it helped my team's cause to some extent -- we picked up that stunt on a couple of occasions -- we still lost the game.

To this day I do not know how our coaches knew that Zimmer's gesture indicated a strongside dog by the Sam and Mike linebackers. My guess is that the signal had been decoded by an advance scout who had attended a prior game, or perhaps another member of the coaching staff had previously worked with the other team's defensive coordinator.

One season when I was with the Bills, the offensive line coach for the team we were were about to face was fired days before the game. He subsequently called our offensive line coach, Jim McNally, and let him know some of the unique defensive formations we could expect to see that week. Needless to say, the defenders were very surprised how well prepared we were.

The point is that situations like these arise in every NFL city over time and teams constantly walk the slippery slope between bending and breaking the rules.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...=si_topstories


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...?urn=nfl,84123

Quote:
But Ross Tucker, a former NFL lineman and New England Patriot, wrote about the practice last week at SI.com, and appeared yesterday on NFL Live to further discuss the practice, and what was said might be useful in deciding about how you're going to think about Bill Belichick from now until his retirement, and again when he's up for Hall of Fame induction.

Here's the interesting thing to me: Tucker, who played for four teams, said he never saw an IR player used in a practice anywhere except New England. James Hasty and Marcellus Wiley were panelists on the show, and when Trey Wingo asked them about it, Hasty said he played for three teams, and said he never once saw it happen, and Wiley played for four teams, and said he never once saw it happen.

Again, I still don't believe the Patriots gained any huge advantage because of the practice. The idea is that you get a young player some repetitions with the first team, and you get to rest veterans during practice. It's not something that's going to make or break your season.

But the fact that Tucker, Wiley and Hasty never saw it happen anywhere else does cut into the "oh, everybody does it" argument. Tucker's take is that there's so little to be gained by practicing players on IR that it doesn't make sense for a coach to take the risk of getting caught. But Belichick did it anyway.

And on top of everything else that we've learned about Bill Belichick, it helps paint a picture of a guy who has no regard for the rules, no matter how big or small, is willing to do things that other coaches won't, and is hellbent on getting any advantage he can, legal or otherwise. It's not an issue that I'm terribly concerned about in terms of competitive advantage, but I don't know if it can be so easily dismissed in regard to the issue of Bill Belichick's legacy.
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