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Old 05-13-2008   #21
Ole Miss Texan
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
On a side note is anyone else seeing a David Anderson vs Grice-Mullins battle for the 5th WR spot?
That's the problem I keep coming to. There's just so many player I think should make this team and a limited number of spots. First and foremost I look at the OL and RB positions- I could easily fill 15 spots between the two of them. Throw in the necessary QB, TE, FB and I run out of room for these Wide outs. I would like to see 5 because 4 just doesn't seem like enough.

Back to your question- I definitely see that happening. I think Darnell Jenkins (the other rookie fa) just sounds like he'd be a good football player. Havn't seen much of either though, so I think it'd be Anderson's job to lose.

For those that have, how similar type of player is Anderson compared to Grice-Mullins and Jenkins?? And what would we be looking for out of our 5th wide out? I see Johnson, Walter, and even Jacoby so to speak as good possession receivers- Davis a speedster HR threat. And I see Slaton being used in the slot some... I suspect we'd be looking for another 'smaller' faster type of WR?
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Old 05-13-2008   #22
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
That's the problem I keep coming to. There's just so many player I think should make this team and a limited number of spots. First and foremost I look at the OL and RB positions- I could easily fill 15 spots between the two of them. Throw in the necessary QB, TE, FB and I run out of room for these Wide outs. I would like to see 5 because 4 just doesn't seem like enough.
Back to your question- I definitely see that happening. I think Darnell Jenkins (the other rookie fa) just sounds like he'd be a good football player. Havn't seen much of either though, so I think it'd be Anderson's job to lose.

For those that have, how similar type of player is Anderson compared to Grice-Mullins and Jenkins?? And what would we be looking for out of our 5th wide out? I see Johnson, Walter, and even Jacoby so to speak as good possession receivers- Davis a speedster HR threat. And I see Slaton being used in the slot some... I suspect we'd be looking for another 'smaller' faster type of WR?

That's an excellent problem to have too. In years past that was never a problem. As Kubiak began saying before last season, it's becoming more and more difficult to make the Texans squad.

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Old 05-13-2008   #23
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

AJ is far more than a "possession receiver."
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Old 05-13-2008   #24
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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AJ is far more than a "possession receiver."
Exactly. He has grown into one of the most complete WRs in the NFL. He is a deep threat that will go over the middle and pick up the tough yards. Not to mention he's a good blocker. If only he could stay healthy this entire season. With Schaub at QB, 100/1250/10 is not out of the question at all. People keep saying "we need playmakers!!!!!!!!11111!" but everyone overlooks that we have a top 5 WR who can not be neutralized.
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Old 05-13-2008   #25
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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I know Kubes has Spencer penciled in at RG but I can not believe that if he is healthy, Kubes would not give him a chance @ LT. Spencer beat all comp two years ago including the guy who started in his place for 2 seasons and he doesn't even get a chance at LT? If Brown is the guy & CS is at RG, ok, but I'd want to see CS at LT a few plays. No coach is talking about moving Dunta to nickle CB and he is worse physically than CS.
Anyone have any clue how Jordan Black would do in ZBS? I have been against him since he signed but he might do better under Gibbs.
I could see Weary on IR at beginning of season to keep another player on roster for longer eval and to work Fred in. Why make a cut until you have to?
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years.
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Old 05-13-2008   #26
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years.
He probably ment pup
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Old 05-13-2008   #27
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years.
I dunno, but don't think they've got that much invested in Fred ? Actually the only OLineman who is a big investment at this time is Brown. Maybe Chester still has a fair chunk of unamortized cap on the books ?
I'm not hopeful about Spencer. Reports are is that he is still walking with a limp. Frankly, his chances just don't sound very good.
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Old 05-13-2008   #28
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Well until LS becomes an official position it is relevant. He'll be on the roster as either a TE or C.
Pittman is on the roster as a Long Snapper.

Hey, Long Snappers are people, too.
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Old 05-13-2008   #29
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
This is pretty much How I'd call it too Ole Miss. Brisiel looked good last year and Myers and Eslinger could end up in a pretty good battle for center.

I think there are some real variables here in the form of the health of Spencer and Weary. If and its a big if he's cleared and is ready to go by TC both guard spots aren't safe. I think he'll have to make it as a guard to and won't see reps at Tackle. Weary is in a tough place coming of an injury and only signed to a one year deal. I like the guy but I can't help but wonder if he's now a stop gap guy instead of a long term player on the team.

I'd love to see Studdard's tenacity make the team but I think he's got one year or so left for PS eligibility.

On a side note is anyone else seeing a David Anderson vs Grice-Mullins battle for the 5th WR spot?
I think you are spot on regarding the variables described above. I would add versatility, in addition to health and future prospects, as an important variable for making the squad. With the exception of LT, which may flip flop, I think we are set with the first team: Salaam/ Brown, Pitts, Meyers, Brisiel and Winston - 5.

6th Spot - Either Salaam or Brown. Salaam is our insurance policy for Brown this season.
7th Spot - Butler in entrenched at the back-up RT spot.

I think those 7 spots are set, barring injury. I think that competition is fierce for the remaining three spots. My picks are below, but think that the 9th, 10th and first two runners up could easily be interchangable.

8th Spot - Eslinger. The guy is young, has experience in the ZBS system and has the body type for the system. He is also a guy that can move over to guard if necessary.
9th Spot - Studdard. Just a hunch. The knock on him last year was that he may be a little small, which may work to his advantage in the current system. He has a mean streak that the coaches like. He was ahead of Frye last year and I don't see why that changes.
10th Spot - Spencer. If he is back healthy, he has the updside, versatility and tenacity to take a chance on. Everyone sees him projected as a guard, but if he can get a full season under his belt, I think he would have the ability to move to tackle. I think we know sooner than later on Spencer.
First Runner Up - White. I was rootnig for White last season and was disappointed when he got hurt. He is a guy that has put his time in and has experiance and can play both guard and center. All things equal, if we think if we can keep Studdard on the PS without risk of losing him, maybe he takes that spot.
Second Runner Up - Weary. It is hard to complain too much about his production, but I think this team is looking forward. He is coming off injury and has a one year deal. All things equal, I think one of the younger guys takes his spot.
Third Runner Up - Frye. The potential may be there, but I think you can keep this guy on the PS one more year.

One thing is for sure, you have to believe that the final 10 will be a strong group. The competition should bring out the best in this unit.
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Old 05-13-2008   #30
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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He probably ment pup
He probably did. But he still didnt say it so I was just covering the angle.

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
I dunno, but don't think they've got that much invested in Fred ? Actually the only OLineman who is a big investment at this time is Brown. Maybe Chester still has a fair chunk of unamortized cap on the books ?
I'm not hopeful about Spencer. Reports are is that he is still walking with a limp. Frankly, his chances just don't sound very good.
They have just over a million with some playing time escelators in his contract. While in the grand scheme of things it's not alot, it would still be a waste of money to sign a guy to a 1 year contract to just ut him on the IR.

We really dont know what the contract for Brown is going to be but the 26th overall pick wont make that much. He probably wont make more than 1.5 mil this year. Which incidentally is a little less than the max that Fred Weary could make this year.

I am not really hopeful about Spencer either but it is still worth him getting the chance to prove himself. The only thing that you give up at this point by giving Spencer a little playing time is reps for Brown. And you dont really have to give Spencer that many reps to see what he can do. And if you run him on the 2nd squad instead of the 1st then Brown doesnt lose any reps.
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Old 05-13-2008   #31
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Pittman is on the roster as a Long Snapper.

Hey, Long Snappers are people, too.
Heck yeah we are!

Signed,

Tyler Schmitt (LS) San Diego State.
Seattle's 6th round pick
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Old 05-13-2008   #32
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

Here is my Lineup at the season opener.



Starters:


RT* Eric Winston 6'7" 310
RG* Charles Spencer 6'5" 350
C* Chris Myers 6'4" 300
LG* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
LT* Duane Brown 6'4" 308


Backups

RT* Rashad Butler 6'4" 298
RG* Fred Weary 6'4" 308
C* Greg Eslinger 6'4" 295
LG* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
LT* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300


Go Texans!!!!
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Old 05-13-2008   #33
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

If the coaches see enough out of Brown to man the LT spot and Spencer is healthy enough to play I thin k the Oline will look like this:
Brown Pitts Myers Spencer Winston
That has the potential to be a very good Oline. I still think we need to keep Salaam because he is a very capable Tackle. Let Spencer gain some experience and prove that he is healthy. If he does, then Spencer becomes very valuable because hge can now be a swing Tackle while being a starting guard. I say this because it is easier to plug someone in as guard if Spencer has to slide over to tackle. It's a very good problem to have, one that we have never had before.
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Old 05-13-2008   #34
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years.
Think I got the two confused. Is it PUP that allows player to come back after 5 games or so?
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Old 05-13-2008   #35
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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That's the problem I keep coming to. There's just so many player I think should make this team and a limited number of spots. First and foremost I look at the OL and RB positions- I could easily fill 15 spots between the two of them. Throw in the necessary QB, TE, FB and I run out of room for these Wide outs. I would like to see 5 because 4 just doesn't seem like enough.

Back to your question- I definitely see that happening. I think Darnell Jenkins (the other rookie fa) just sounds like he'd be a good football player. Havn't seen much of either though, so I think it'd be Anderson's job to lose.

For those that have, how similar type of player is Anderson compared to Grice-Mullins and Jenkins?? And what would we be looking for out of our 5th wide out? I see Johnson, Walter, and even Jacoby so to speak as good possession receivers- Davis a speedster HR threat. And I see Slaton being used in the slot some... I suspect we'd be looking for another 'smaller' faster type of WR?
I agree on thinking we'll see 5 WR. I have heard Grice-Mullins is fast and great hands. Can't recall perfectly as I really didn't get to see a lot of the Texans games last year because of work and school as the season wore on. I rememeber David Anderson having good hands but not enough speed. You'll have to help me on this one.

I think with Davis coming on last year like he did this WR corps is deep and complete across the board. Not too bad considering some people last preseason thought we were throwing anything on the wall and hoping it'd stick at WR. I think LB this year has the possibility to make the same jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike View Post
I think you are spot on regarding the variables described above. I would add versatility, in addition to health and future prospects, as an important variable for making the squad. With the exception of LT, which may flip flop, I think we are set with the first team: Salaam/ Brown, Pitts, Meyers, Brisiel and Winston - 5.

6th Spot - Either Salaam or Brown. Salaam is our insurance policy for Brown this season.
7th Spot - Butler in entrenched at the back-up RT spot.

I think those 7 spots are set, barring injury. I think that competition is fierce for the remaining three spots. My picks are below, but think that the 9th, 10th and first two runners up could easily be interchangable.

8th Spot - Eslinger. The guy is young, has experience in the ZBS system and has the body type for the system. He is also a guy that can move over to guard if necessary.
9th Spot - Studdard. Just a hunch. The knock on him last year was that he may be a little small, which may work to his advantage in the current system. He has a mean streak that the coaches like. He was ahead of Frye last year and I don't see why that changes.
10th Spot - Spencer. If he is back healthy, he has the updside, versatility and tenacity to take a chance on. Everyone sees him projected as a guard, but if he can get a full season under his belt, I think he would have the ability to move to tackle. I think we know sooner than later on Spencer.
First Runner Up - White. I was rootnig for White last season and was disappointed when he got hurt. He is a guy that has put his time in and has experiance and can play both guard and center. All things equal, if we think if we can keep Studdard on the PS without risk of losing him, maybe he takes that spot.
Second Runner Up - Weary. It is hard to complain too much about his production, but I think this team is looking forward. He is coming off injury and has a one year deal. All things equal, I think one of the younger guys takes his spot.
Third Runner Up - Frye. The potential may be there, but I think you can keep this guy on the PS one more year.

One thing is for sure, you have to believe that the final 10 will be a strong group. The competition should bring out the best in this unit.
Agree on the strong unit no matter who starts with the way the TC battles are setting up. I thought I saw some video on Spencer on HT.com coming out of his stance. He looked good for a guy trying to get back into playing shape. I know people are talking about the limp but as his weight gets back down and he starts to fully trust the leg again I think we'll see a difference.
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Old 05-13-2008   #36
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

Concerning Spencer. On yesterday morning 610 radio program I caught Mark and Andre both casting doubts on Charles looking like he will make it back. Not sure exactly if they meant as LT or at RG or at all.
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Old 05-13-2008   #37
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Think I got the two confused. Is it PUP that allows player to come back after 5 games or so?
It's 6 games. After 6 games, the team has the option to activate him at any point between the 6th game and the 10th week of the season. If he is not activated by week 10, he must be placed on IR, ending his season.
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Old 05-13-2008   #38
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by D-ReK View Post
It's 6 games. After 6 games, the team has the option to activate him at any point between the 6th game and the 10th week of the season. If he is not activated by week 10, he must be placed on IR, ending his season.
To expound--players on PUP cannot practice with the team. Between weeks 6 and 10 a team can have a player practice with the team for two weeks and then must either IR him or put him on the active roster. So start practicing week 6, a decision must be made week 8. Start practicing week 8, a decision must be made week 10.
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Old 05-13-2008   #39
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Brown Salaam
Pitts Frye
Myers Eslinger
Spencer Briesel
Winston Butler

Studdard, is he P.S. eligible
C. White PUP


Who knows... I think Salaam may get cut if they're confident in spencer's health. I've got Weary and Studdard not making the squad- those are a couple tough cuts. Also, I've got 10 on the roster when it's unlikely we carry more than 9.

I don't know... this is going to be a tough camp!
i agree with the possibility of Salaam getting cut. It's hard to swallow how cut throat NFL organizations can be but it's the nature of the game. Look at McKinney. As soon as you are expendable you are gone. It's the nature of the game.

It's a big if but IF Spencer comes back strong as a guard and they are confident in his health and mental state after two years of no football then It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest to keep him on as a guard who is capable of playing LT with Butler staying on as the official "swing tackle" but at that point you've got several guys on the line that can play multiple positions which is exactly what you need to be successful when you have a limited number of roster spots. Having a guy like Spencer IF he's healthy is extremely valuable and frees up a roster spot. (see the decision to keep less WR's last year because of Jacoby Jones' apparent ability to be productive on special teams as well as some natural ability to compete at a high level at WR strait out of college. or two years ago we kept one less guard because McKinney could play both guard and center)
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Old 05-13-2008   #40
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Default Re: O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?

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AJ is far more than a "possession receiver."
Thanks for critiqueing such an integral part of the post...

I guess I really gotta be careful how to phrase things- trying not to be long winded and trying not to completely derail this thread from OL to WR.

I was really intending to talk more about their size:
A. Johnson 6'3 219lbs
K. Walter 6'3 214lbs
J. Jones 6'2 210lbs

So I don't see us needing another 'big man' wide receiver.

Andre Davis 6'1 195lbs

Battle for the 5th spot- Small 'slot' type of wr or deep threat?
David Anderson 5'10 194lbs
Ryan Grice Mullins 5'10 187 lbs
Darnell Jenkins 5'10 188lbs
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