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Old 12-12-2004   #21
HJam72
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
He got 190 total yards and we lost because teams will be happy to give Davis 190 yards. Do you not think that if the Colts wanted to stop Davis, they would bring people up to the line??? They didnt bring people up on the line because they wanted Davis to carry the load, they werent scared of him. I dont think I will find one person on this board, including yourself Beastly and TexansTrueFan, who would say that the 190 yards Julius Jones got last week wasnt a different 190 yards that Davis got. Jones' 190 got safties creeping to the line and allowed Keyshawn-freaking-Johnson to catch a 40 TD pass, Davis' 190 yards didnt allow AJ to get free deep. Of the 6 games where Davis has touched the ball 30 times, we are 0-6. The 3 times that Julius Jones has had 30 touches in a game, the Cowboys are 2-1 with the lone loss against the Ravens. Davis will produce but his producing doesnt make defensive coordinators lose sleep. Opposing coaches think everytime Davis touches the ball instead of AJ is a plus. I dont think I have seen a CB jump on a play action fake to Davis all year long.

Yes, DD got 190 yards. 62 of those yards were on dump off passes, because Carr couldn't find a real receiver. Why? Because the O-line couldn't protect him long enough. It's true. They love for DD to get the ball ON PASS PLAYS. I don't know if DD is the real deal or not. I'm just not sure. What I do know is that our O-line is a much, much bigger problem. Handoffs to DD should happen often and are a good thing. Passes to DD should be embarrassing to the O-line (and sometimes Carr, who just can't FIND the open receiver at this point). SHAME, SHAME!!!

If DD always played the way he did today, this team SHOULD win A LOT of big games, but it's not his fault that he's our #1 receiver. He doesn't even want that job.

"I dont think I have seen a CB jump on a play action fake to Davis all year long."

Yeah, that's because DD has had a bad year, for the most part. Like I said, I still don't know what to think about him. But, today it was absolutely not DD's fault that we lost. Anytime he RUNS well, it's not his fault that he is also the #1 receiver.

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Old 12-12-2004   #22
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Originally Posted by HJam72
Because the O-line couldn't protect him long enough.
Point excatly, shouldnt Davis carving up the run defense allow a little more time on pass plays??? It doesnt because teams are playing pass. One play that signifies that was after Davis had a couple of good carries in a row and Carr did a play fake to Davis, Freeney who had gotten by Wand didnt even attempt to go to Davis and just put his head down and went after Carr. The play fake wasnt even done and Freeney made up his mind that he was going after Carr. The result a sack. Yeah, Wand didnt do a good job but shouldnt a play fake at least freeze Freeney for a second??? He wasnt scared of Davis, he was scared of Carr finding one of the wideouts open. The same thing happened the other way but when Manning faked it to James, the entire front seven for the defense STOPPED. There was no stopping when the fake was issused to Davis. The Texans defense was scared of James, the Colts defense wasnt scared of Davis.


Everyone here would agree with me that the O-line for the Chargers last year was horrible, right??? Well, LT made it look good and because defenses fear LT, they waited on the play fake and in return the Chargers only allowed 29 sacks last year which was 6th best in the AFC and 11th best in the entire league. A play fake to the RB is suppose to freeze people, play fakes to Davis dont scare people.
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Old 12-12-2004   #23
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Davis' production for the year may be a problem. I'm just saying that his production today was not. Maybe you have to make a name for yourself by playing well for several games in a row before the defense bites on fake handoffs. At the same time, though, the O-line needs to protect Carr better, whether the DLs are worried about DD or not.

Some people have said that when DD does well it automatically hurts the team somehow. I'm simply refuting that--at least the part where it's DDs fault that they lose. There's no such thing as a runningback who rushes for 128 yards (with no fumbles) and catches 68 yards in passes, who can also be blamed for the loss on that particular day. I suppose he could drop all the pass and teach Carr to stop throwing everything to him, lol. Now, that might help a little bit in the long run.
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Old 12-12-2004   #24
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It doesnt automatically hurt us but the games we win are the games where Andre Johnson goes off, like earlier in the year.

The following link is a link to what happens when Davis is the focal point of the offense and when AJ is the focal point of the offense:
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zon...ead.php?t=3391
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Old 12-12-2004   #25
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There is another possiblity here. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to what the other teams defense is doing. If they're playing zone cover 2s (or zone cover whatever) on every play and dropping back the LBs, while maybe even pulling DLs and moving them all around to pressure the QB, then DDs rushing yardage is much less impressive. If they're using cover one, man-on-man covers on every play and letting the LBs stay in place and just watch the ball, then DDs rushing yardage is much more impressive.

I noticed that our D used a lot of 2 DL defenses today and A LOT of DBs to try and stop the passing, but they still got some pressure on the QB and mananged to STOP THE RUN. I was impressed. I've no doubt they were dropping the LBs back most of the time too, but they STILL stopped the run pretty well.
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Old 12-12-2004   #26
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Davis had 201 total yards today. What's wrong with DD catching it on dump off? He averaged 12 yards a catch today. That's 12 yards. A back who can catch out of the backfield is a weapon, not a liability. LT caught 100 balls last year. I would love for Carr to hit AJ, Bradford, or Gaff deep, but until the protection is there I have no problem with DD catching and running for 8-9 yards.

Maybe the better question is why does David Carr always say "they covered up all my receivers." Can our receivers find a window in the cover 2? Apparently not.
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Old 12-12-2004   #27
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LT caught 100 balls last year.
And didnt the Chargers have the first pick in the draft??? Last year LT averaged 7.7 catches per game and they were the worst team in the league, this year LT is averaging 3.6 catches per game and the Chargers are leading the AFC West. I wouldnt mind if Davis was catching these balls and we were winning but he is catching them and we arent winning. At the end of the day, I want "W's." That is what a team is measured by.
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Old 12-13-2004   #28
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This is how I understand it. On a cover 2 the defense is smuthering the sidelines (basically) with DBs (and maybe some LBs) to stop the wideouts from getting receptions. Specifically, they're sending the safeties back and to the sidelines. Shouldn't that mean that there would be open areas in the middle, especially deep? Why isn't someone getting open deep down the middle? Tight-end? Or receiver? My guess is that by the time this happens Carr is on the ground. Add to that the fact that Carr is not reading all of his receivers on the play anyway and you've got a real problem throwing against the cover 2. Also, on the cover 2 the LBs should be dropping back (not blitzing, most likely), so that means the DLs are getting to car on their own, without any help from the LBs. This is really bad.
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Old 12-13-2004   #29
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Originally Posted by HJam72
This is how I understand it. On a cover 2 the defense is smuthering the sidelines (basically) with DBs (and maybe some LBs) to stop the wideouts from getting receptions. Specifically, they're sending the safeties back and to the sidelines. Shouldn't that mean that there would be open areas in the middle, especially deep? Why isn't someone getting open deep down the middle? Tight-end? Or receiver? My guess is that by the time this happens Carr is on the ground. Add to that the fact that Carr is not reading all of his receivers on the play anyway and you've got a real problem throwing against the cover 2. Also, on the cover 2 the LBs should be dropping back (not blitzing, most likely), so that means the DLs are getting to car on their own, without any help from the LBs. This is really bad.
You are suppose to attack the seams in the Cover 2 and the safties cover split the field in half. The CBs jam the WRs at the line and then play the flats and the LBs do drop into coverage so you have the main scheme of the thing down. And yes the TE should be open but Carr doesnt even look at the TE. You can tell when the pass is going to Davis because Carr makes up his mind at the snap of the ball so his drop back is different. And thats not on Davis...
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Old 12-13-2004   #30
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If as David Carr says "all our receivers were covered up," then you have to throw to Davis. If you go with an empty backfield and take DD out of the game Carr will get killed. Teams only rush four guys because that's all it takes to sack Carr five times. If our O-line can protect better, then the defense will have to bring more than four guys and maybe then our receivers can get open.

We don't lose games because of DD. We lose games because we are not a good team. Our O-line is bad and we have one of the worst defenses in the league.
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Old 12-13-2004   #31
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And didnt the Chargers have the first pick in the draft??? Last year LT averaged 7.7 catches per game and they were the worst team in the league, this year LT is averaging 3.6 catches per game and the Chargers are leading the AFC West. I wouldnt mind if Davis was catching these balls and we were winning but he is catching them and we arent winning. At the end of the day, I want "W's." That is what a team is measured by.
Your runningback should NOT be your #1 receiver. That's just really bad. A dump off to your RB is just a good run play. That's all it is. If all your passes are dump-offs like that, then it's like you have no passing game at all. Even the most staunch rushing advocates will want that occasional and unexpected pass that's good for 45 yards to AJ and a possible TD run after the catch. No matter how good your offense is otherwise, you still need to get SOME big plays to win games, because the other team certainly will.
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Old 12-13-2004   #32
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Your runningback should NOT be your #1 receiver. That's just really bad.
See, thats what defenses dictate. They want Davis to be the #1 reciever because Davis wont take a 5 yard dump down 40 yards for the TD.
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Old 12-13-2004   #33
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Originally Posted by wags
Our O-line is bad and we have one of the worst defenses in the league.
Dont call the defense bad today. They held Manning and Co. to only 23 points. They werent a problem.
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Old 12-13-2004   #34
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Fiddy, you've given some good stats on how the Texans have lost when DD had big games. Obviously, we agree that DD should not be the #1 receiver, but you seem to also be saying that even in spite of his efforts on good rushing days, he is somehow hurting the passing game. You eve argued that he hurt the passing game last year, when he was rushing so well, and gave stats to that effect.

My question is HOW is he hurting the passing game. Could it be that Carr is just thinking, "Hey, DD can run. I'll just throw all my passes to him." Other than that kind of bonehead thinking by Carr, which I don't know is the problem or not, I don't see how DD is hurting the passing game. I know that Carr's not getting enough protection. You've stated that the D is not biting on the fake hand-offs right now. I THINK that's becuase DD hasn't rushed well for most of this year. Were they not biting on fake hand-offs last year either?

You've given evidence that something might be happening, but I don't think anybody knows WHY it's happening. Got any ideas?

How was Carr's passing on the day that Wells rushed for over 100? I don't remember.
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Old 12-13-2004   #35
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I think that what Davis can give you is enough if you can also throw the ball. He's not going to ever be the second coming of Barry Sanders but Davis producing isn't the problem. Davis is going to get you a hundred yards if the blocking is there like it was the majority of the afternoon today and that's "good enough". The problem is the offense not being able to protect the QB when they have to pass. There's no time and you end up with a dump off to Davis and a game summary that's way lopsided.

1. When Davis gets the ball on a handoff is that his fault? No of course not. His number is called and he runs the ball. Good for Davis when he gets some yards out of it. If he could run the ball like he did today all the time then the Texans would be in posession of their coveted "franchise back". So take his 128 yards and call them good stuff.

2. When Davis is dumped off the ball as a result of Carr not finding anyone open (or not seeing the guy who is open) is that Davis fault? No, of course not. He's getting the dump off and he's going to do whatever he can with it. Generally I'd say we have a very good target in DD as far as safetly valves go. He's got good hands and he generally gets good yardage off of those passes.

So what's wrong here? What's wrong is that the Texans seem unable to use Davis AND use anyone else. Defenses are taking away the pass and leaving us the run for as long as they can without it hurting them. Eventually they take that away when it starts to threaten. The whole point is that when the Texans can't run the ball they become one dimensional and teams crush the pocket and kill Carr. When the Texans CAN run the ball teams still crush the pocket on pass plays and kill Carr.

Problem? Pass protection. Solution? Protect the damned QB for more than 2 seconds.

If the Texans can figure out how to do this then there it is. I'm very curious to see what they do on the ground next week against Chicago. If they can run the ball against the Bears then I'm wondering if they're not starting to get the blocking scheme down. If they can run the ball roughly at this level over the last three games then I'm starting to feel good about the blocking scheme finally coming together. It won't win us games without the pass protection being there but at least it will mean they've solved half the equation.

They might just figure out how to run block before they figure out how to pass protect. Now if they'd just figure out how to stop the false starts.
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Old 12-13-2004   #36
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It is true that DD is not a major threat to break one for 80 yards, whether he gets it by hand-off or pass, but he still gets first downs. You'd think they would bite on those fakes more. There was a time when I thought Carr's fakes were a joke that wouldn't fool anyone, but I don't really think that's the problem now. Or is it?

I know one thing: I saw some O-linemen on their butts today. I bet that has something to do with it.
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Old 12-13-2004   #37
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As I sat and watched the game against the colts today, I saw the Texans defense sorta step up. Domanick Davis finally has broken out and it seems that he is just now starting his season. He helped us stay in the game. One thing that was so terrible to me, were the calls made by the refs. It seems like the whole NFL just wants Peyton Manning to clench the record. I watched as Peyton walked to the Texans line to cry to the refs. about the fumble that was clearly the Texans ball. There was also another fumble that again could have been the Texans ball. Aaron Glenn was called for pass interference late in the game and he never even was around the guy when the ball was near him. It's bad when everyone in the NFL organization just wants to help out Peyton so he can get his record. I also thought it was very childish to walk up to the refs and whine so much. I think that that is the main reason why we lost todays game.
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Old 12-13-2004   #38
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What about DDs production? He rushed for 128 yards. Is it possible that that's not enough? What I mean is that if the D focused on the pass on every play the entire game (this is kind of a make believe scenario...I think?) then is it possible that DDs 128 is really not enough. Is it possible that he should've had 200 yds. today if he was actually a good RB?

What if you could beat a good passing team by focusing on the pass and allowing their goofy, over-valued, RB to run for 128 and catch a bunch of dump-offs? The safeties split the field on every play, the corners won't allow the quick-out (or whatever it's called), the LBs drop back, and the DLs pin their ears back, ignore the RB, and zone in on David Carr. What if you did this the whole freaking game and they get 128 rushing and a total joke of a passing game against you? shouldn't a good RB just ABSOLUTELY KILL YOU in that situation? Is that what their defense did to us? Isn't that kind of what we tried on them and they still passed on us, lol?

Could it be that DD really did have a bad game?

Nah....I think Seth Wand sat on his rear end too much, but I'd sure like to see DD catch a dump-off and bust one for 80 yards, while running over a few DBs in the process. He needs to do that. It would really help the situation.
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Old 12-13-2004   #39
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hmmm they say the o-line isnt the problem huh,,,hmmm i wonder why Carr got sacked 5 times today. if they cant pass block for anything what makes ya think they are much better at run blocking ? D.D has what it takes and LATELY he has had is form from last year back, and has been injury free for a while. I dont see how some of you can say he is only a 3rd down back. We would of been shut out today if not for Davis !!!!!!
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Old 12-13-2004   #40
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I think you're right about the pass blocking, but the run blocking actually was pretty good. I don't know about great, but it was pretty good.
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