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Old 05-07-2008   #21
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Too true Bill, Oh so true. It sucks! I hope we at least get some decent coverage of this weeks mini-camp. Then we can beat the shit out of that for the next month or so until there's something else to beat the shit out of.
There's always good fall back or fill in material..... see Tracie.
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Old 05-07-2008   #22
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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There's always good fall back or fill in material..... see Tracie.
Truth be told, I get pissed just thinking about Teabag and the Rockets these days. Actually, the NBA pisses me off these days. I think the WNBA players play harder than NBA players at the sport. Buncha panzy ass windbags who've forgotten how to play the game the way it's supposed to be played. Of course the referees aren't helping either.

Long story short, the NBA in general isn't worth any sort of lengthy conversation on my part, much less Tracie McLady.
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Old 05-07-2008   #23
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Default Re: Dan Riley

I'm thinhing we may need a new team chaplain, maybe he can talk to the man upstairs about all of the injuries.

In 06 DR & AJ wre hit with muscle related injuries.

I would like to know C-N-D's thoughts on our injury situation.

I was just thowing out a new topic for conversation.

Riley seems to have a good reputation.
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Old 05-07-2008   #24
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Default Re: Dan Riley

I see the time in the offseason for the Dan Riley thread has arrived.

See you again next year.
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Old 05-07-2008   #25
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Default Re: Dan Riley

Dan Riley video


I don't see a transcript of it.

Basically, he says that this year is only a little different in that assistant Ray Wright has them doing football specific drills earlier in the season and that they got a little bit more equipment.

He says that their program is different than some in that some programs have the players doing more plyometric stuff in the offseason. It's his belief that if you don't use a particular function you lose it, so his in-season program is the program.

I know in other talks I've heard him give, he talks about how he wants nothing in the weight program to possibly hurt the players. That, for example, he prefers them to do machine squats that do not compress the spine.

Overall, I don't think that I know enough about the program to say anything yay or nay about it. As has been said before, lots of the injuries have been flukey.

I do know that the most fit guy on the team is Andre Johnson, and from what I understand, he does a lot of plyometric stuff with the Miami people in his offseasons.

I also don't really understand Riley's belief as far as off-season/on-season as it relates to plyometrics. In the offseason, I would think you should be doing powerful movements that mimic football movements to get your body ready for the explosive activities you do in football. And once the season starts, you don't have to continue those plyometric movements because you are doing that through football actions--you just need to maintain strength.

In the video, they show someone doing very controlled strength exercises, which certainly make sense--it makes sure that you don't injure yourself cheating with heavier weights. I don't see how it prepares the body for the need for explosive strength.

And while I understand how your body needs to do things to preserve strength, I am a big believer in the muscle confusion priciple that weight lifters all know that if you do the same activities over and over again, even with increasing weight, you may not get as good results as doing a variety of strength training activities.

But even with the variety of weight equipment that they have, I would not be comfortable with the focus on weight training that only works on slow controlled movement. Strength is just one aspect of fitness and an important one for football obviously, but I don't see how what they are doing relates to explosive power and balance--which the focus of a lot of the plyometric training.

Early in the video, he seems to suggest that muscular strength is the basis of all the things you need to do to play football speed, power, burst etc. I think that might over simplify.

One thing that a more plyometric program risks for that many players is that they injure themselves while doing it. You have to have very good conditioning and not overdo and very good supervision--that can be hard with large groups of people training.

This is just thinking outloud and is not meant to be a criticism of Dan Riley's program because clearly we have only seen a snippet of it, and I have just heard generalized information about it from lectures. Clearly I don't have his exercise background but just have a personal interest in fitness issues. Just things to think about.
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Old 05-07-2008   #26
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Default Re: Dan Riley

Oh, and if you want to see the strength and conditioning manual they give to players, check out this pdf from the HT.com site.

Page 39 says, they do not like plyometrics.
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Old 05-07-2008   #27
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Dan Riley is a HIT practitioner, and as such I do not believe in his program at all. The S&C field is so backwards, people keep their jobs because nobody knows better.

The fact is, HIT produces a high amount of injuries -- and what do you know, our team leads the league in them. You can try to justify the coincidence of the incidents, but the facts speak for themselves.
Your user name makes me laugh. I'm wondering if you are the person that I talked to about this subject before, because I once had an interesting conversation with someone who was cranky about the Riley way of doing things.

For thems who don't know HIT is weightlifting verbage for "High Intensity Training." Here is a brief wiki.
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Old 05-07-2008   #28
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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It's not a "Riley" way of doing things; its a "HIT" way of doing things -- and its outdated.

The Texans would do very well to hire Sal Alosi out from underneath the Falcons, or someone with a similar background as he.

And yes, I lost my username back in school so I had to recreate.
This is an old Texans story about Riley talking about HIT, for thems who care.

Oh, and speaking of things related to your user name, I've spoke to at least one person who believes that the Texans instance on no supplementation other than whey protein (including legal supplements) puts them at a disadvantage relative to other teams.

I've always thought it was funny how the S&T folks for the Texans preach against water weight gain but that Kubiak wears a gray sweat shirt as a weight loss method.

(BTW, I am guessing you are not a small guy).
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Old 05-07-2008   #29
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Default Re: Dan Riley

I find it fascinating he prefers machine based exercises to avoid injuries when it is well known that training on machines limits the recruitment of supporting muscles therefore making the body less prepared for real life situations where you are not moving in uniform paths of motion.

Thanks for the info T_C.
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Old 05-08-2008   #30
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Default Re: Dan Riley

I am a strength and conditioning coach and I have to say I am not a big believer in what Riley does. Machine training is ridiculous. Machine squats not compressing the spine so they are safer - he should read Stuart McGill's material. McGill states it is easier to seriously hurt yourself on a leg press then by doing squats, additionally leg press does little to train hip extension which is the key element to power and speed. Saying you don't like plyometrics is like saying I don't like how the body works - ignorant. Sprinting is a plyometric activity, do you not like that either Riley? The only thing he has said that I would agree with is that strength is the foundation of athletic ability, it is a bit simplified but it is true. I can explain later if anyone is interested - I have to go to work.
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Old 05-08-2008   #31
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I am a strength and conditioning coach and I have to say I am not a big believer in what Riley does. Machine training is ridiculous. Machine squats not compressing the spine so they are safer - he should read Stuart McGill's material. McGill states it is easier to seriously hurt yourself on a leg press then by doing squats, additionally leg press does little to train hip extension which is the key element to power and speed. Saying you don't like plyometrics is like saying I don't like how the body works - ignorant. Sprinting is a plyometric activity, do you not like that either Riley? The only thing he has said that I would agree with is that strength is the foundation of athletic ability, it is a bit simplified but it is true. I can explain later if anyone is interested - I have to go to work.
I'm willing to listen. Heck, I consider myself old school when it comes to S & C. Of course my body really can't do any heavy lifting anymore, but I'm always willing to learn. This is a good subject to cuss and dicuss. Hit us back when you have time.
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Old 05-08-2008   #32
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Default Re: Dan Riley

Thanks for the info

The proof is in the pudding

The only thing we have led the league in is injuries
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Old 05-08-2008   #33
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I am a strength and conditioning coach and I have to say I am not a big believer in what Riley does. Machine training is ridiculous. Machine squats not compressing the spine so they are safer - he should read Stuart McGill's material. McGill states it is easier to seriously hurt yourself on a leg press then by doing squats, additionally leg press does little to train hip extension which is the key element to power and speed. Saying you don't like plyometrics is like saying I don't like how the body works - ignorant. Sprinting is a plyometric activity, do you not like that either Riley? The only thing he has said that I would agree with is that strength is the foundation of athletic ability, it is a bit simplified but it is true. I can explain later if anyone is interested - I have to go to work.
Any info or enlightenment, I'd appreciate!
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Old 05-08-2008   #34
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I am a strength and conditioning coach and I have to say I am not a big believer in what Riley does. Machine training is ridiculous. Machine squats not compressing the spine so they are safer - he should read Stuart McGill's material. McGill states it is easier to seriously hurt yourself on a leg press then by doing squats, additionally leg press does little to train hip extension which is the key element to power and speed. Saying you don't like plyometrics is like saying I don't like how the body works - ignorant. Sprinting is a plyometric activity, do you not like that either Riley? The only thing he has said that I would agree with is that strength is the foundation of athletic ability, it is a bit simplified but it is true. I can explain later if anyone is interested - I have to go to work.
You should read what is in the manual. It may be a little dated like a lot of stuff on the website because it still has Capers references in it.

He wants people to practice running, running in a specific way specific to what they do on the field. He believes practicing running fast gets you running fast--you can't really argue with that.

But basically, the program is running and lifting and some stretching. I don't think running and lifting alone is good preparation for football.

I think you can lift all you want but it may not make you football strong.

I believe in muscle specificity like he talks about--but you lift weights, it makes you good at lifting weights. Moving heavy things in action gets all that connective stuff working.

I've become a big believer in things that you do that improve balance and and muscles working in sports-oriented ways. Strength in movement.

I also believe in rest and active rest.

The concept of active rest reducing soreness I understand, but I'm not sure that maximal exersion on Mondays after games is the best idea I've heard. I would think that would get you wore down. It's when you are worn down that it is easier to get hurt.
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Old 05-08-2008   #35
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Default Re: Dan Riley

The one thing i really focus on that i got from Riley (in my own workouts) is exploding to lift the weight. and then to SLOWLY let the wieght back down. You use the same muscles to to retract as you do to let the weight down.

Of course this was in my 'gym rat days"
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Old 05-08-2008   #36
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Default Re: Dan Riley

Here are a couple of points:

I think you can lift all you want but it may not make you football strong

Strength is a big part of athletic ability but you are correct in that there is a big difference between weight room strength and what you see on the football field. The main difference is that there is no time constraint to force production in the weight room, meaning that all you have to do is lift the weight. No one gets a prize for the fastest lift, just the most weight lifted. On the football field it is all about how much force you can produce in a given amount of time. When a lineman fires out of the hole he has a couple of tenths of a sec to produce enough force to knock his guy back. If both the OLman and the DLman can both squat 500lbs in the weightroom, but on the field the OL can produce 350lbs of force before contact and the DL can only produce 300lbs - guess whose getting knocked on their butt? Hopefully that kind of explains "football"strength. In actuality it is power that is important to an athlete (which is basically the amount of force produced with in a certain amount of time).

Unfortunately I have to go back to work so I will address more later. Peace from sunny San Diego
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Old 05-08-2008   #37
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
Here are a couple of points:

I think you can lift all you want but it may not make you football strong

Strength is a big part of athletic ability but you are correct in that there is a big difference between weight room strength and what you see on the football field. The main difference is that there is no time constraint to force production in the weight room, meaning that all you have to do is lift the weight. No one gets a prize for the fastest lift, just the most weight lifted. On the football field it is all about how much force you can produce in a given amount of time. When a lineman fires out of the hole he has a couple of tenths of a sec to produce enough force to knock his guy back. If both the OLman and the DLman can both squat 500lbs in the weightroom, but on the field the OL can produce 350lbs of force before contact and the DL can only produce 300lbs - guess whose getting knocked on their butt? Hopefully that kind of explains "football"strength. In actuality it is power that is important to an athlete (which is basically the amount of force produced with in a certain amount of time).

Unfortunately I have to go back to work so I will address more later. Peace from sunny San Diego

Well said. Vernon Davis was an absolute MONSTER at the combine. 475 bench press. 600 squat 4.3/40? and NONE of it has transfered. Football/Functional strengh cant be done in weight room IMO.
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Old 05-08-2008   #38
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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Well said. Vernon Davis was an absolute MONSTER at the combine. 475 bench press. 600 squat 4.3/40? and NONE of it has transfered. Football/Functional strengh cant be done in weight room IMO.
So was Mario. It was said he didn't have the "fast twitch" muscles to be a great DE though.
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Old 05-08-2008   #39
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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So was Mario. It was said he didn't have the "fast twitch" muscles to be a great DE though.
WHAT? i missed that at the combine. Im just not sure that his 35 reps of 225 are transfering to the feild. He almost seems a finesse instead of a bull rusher. Either way i love em LOL



Could be wrong.
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Old 05-08-2008   #40
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Default Re: Dan Riley

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WHAT? i missed that at the combine. Im just not sure that his 35 reps of 225 are transfering to the feild. He almost seems a finesse instead of a bull rusher. Either way i love em LOL



Could be wrong.
Mario is far from a finesse rusher. He has been criticized at times for trying too hard to bull rush on every play and having a lack of pass rushing moves. This, of course, was the gripe before he started playing really well, in the last half of last season. Go back and watch him absolutely level Jahri Evans of the Saints and tell me that his strength doesn't transfer to the field.
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