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View Poll Results: If you're unhappy with the Brown pick, would you be ok if it had been in Rd 2?
Yes 19 70.37%
No 8 29.63%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-28-2008   #21
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Yankee, I wasn't happy with our first pick at all. How does this pick make the Texans better going into this coming season. I want first rounders that will see the field... Isn't this guy similar to Brandon Frye anyway?

Overall, the draft was fine.... and, I am willing to give the Brown pick, the benefit of the doubt - since Alex Gibbs apparently weighed in on the decision. However, there were still a couple of defensive players on the board that I would have rather had...
Being unhappy a certain guy was not choosen or for saying you would rather have guys seeing the field now makes a lot of since at least you are not ranting and raving like a lunatic and saying Gibbs sucks and all. The way I see it is we have a strating LT. He is not the greatest since slice bread but he is not chopped liver either. OK so he does not see the field that much in his rookie season, baring injuries. Most lineman not drafted in the top 15 are not ment to start opening day, they are projected to start by seasons end.

Not Voting: LOVE THE PICK!!
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Old 04-28-2008   #22
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I can deal with the pick. If you watch the draft wrap up press conference with Kubiak and Smith, it's quite obvious they were eyeing Brown the entire round. Smith was actually ribbing Kubiak for being so nervous after the trade. Smith said they received a call concerning the #26 from the Seahawks with around 1 min left and Kubiak screamed "don't answer it, make the pick". Apparently Kubiak was pacing around the entire wait too.

To me, that says they really wanted Brown. I mean, who would make up a story like that?

It's also comforting hearing our GM and HC actually have some fun and can rib on each other. I thought that was pretty cool.

I was at the draft party.

I spoke to someone very soon after the trade down. This person asked me who I thought they would get, and I really had no idea.

The person then told me that Kubiak was targeting Duane Brown. (Can't say how this person knew, but it is good info).

And I was Oh Really? No Way.

I had to leave the draft party early, and heard the pick on the way home. Maybe 20-30 minutes later.

They wanted LT value at 18 because they believe they could still get good players for other needs lower. Other good candidates LT were off the board. So they trade down and hope who they want is still there.

Given the Texans jinxing history with left tackles, it might have been too much to tempt fate with another trade down.
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Old 04-28-2008   #23
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Yankee, I wasn't happy with our first pick at all. How does this pick make the Texans better going into this coming season.
That's one thing that concerns me is that it doesn't look like we're going to get a lot of production from him this season, and with a first rounder you normally want instant impact.

I really do like the pick though because he's exactly what we're looking for in a franchise LT and Kubiak/Gibbs were gung ho on him, we traded back to get him late in the 1st round and received Adibi and Barber because of it.

I really don't think Brown would have lasted much longer with San Fran rumored to like him (pick #29) and worst case, I see him selected at the top of the 2nd- so I don't think we were really "reaching" that bad on him. According to Kiper or Lance's rankings, maybe we were but the most important rating there is, is by the Texans.

The big PLUS is that we get him this year, give him a year or so to learn the system and maybe he can start for the 2009 season or most of the games. If we don't take him at #26, he would be gone- so what LT do we select? He probably wouldn't be near as good a fit as Brown and may not be able to start any earlier. So then your looking at spending a 1st round pick in the 2009 draft on a LT- hoping one falls to you that is a good fit- and expecting him to start right away.
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Old 04-28-2008   #24
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
That's one thing that concerns me is that it doesn't look like we're going to get a lot of production from him this season, and with a first rounder you normally want instant impact.

I really do like the pick though because he's exactly what we're looking for in a franchise LT and Kubiak/Gibbs were gung ho on him, we traded back to get him late in the 1st round and received Adibi and Barber because of it.

I really don't think Brown would have lasted much longer with San Fran rumored to like him (pick #29) and worst case, I see him selected at the top of the 2nd- so I don't think we were really "reaching" that bad on him. According to Kiper or Lance's rankings, maybe we were but the most important rating there is, is by the Texans.

The big PLUS is that we get him this year, give him a year or so to learn the system and maybe he can start for the 2009 season or most of the games. If we don't take him at #26, he would be gone- so what LT do we select? He probably wouldn't be near as good a fit as Brown and may not be able to start any earlier. So then your looking at spending a 1st round pick in the 2009 draft on a LT- hoping one falls to you that is a good fit- and expecting him to start right away.
And how do we know that? From all the press conferences I've seen it sure seems Kubiak thinks he'll be the starter. I don't think it'll take much to unseat Salaam anyways. If this kid has the foot speed he's known for, I'd guess he'll unseat Salaam sooner rather than later. If he's as good as Kubiak and Co. think he is, he'll be starting this season.
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Old 04-28-2008   #25
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Default Re: Brown poll

One thing about the pick: the Texans made it very quickly. If I recall correctly from the espn broadcast, the pick was declared "in" with about 7:30 left on the clock. So that may indeed mean that Brown was the guy we were hoping to take all along.

As far as trade-downs, I refuse to speculate on what deals we may have struck absent something tangible that showed another team was interested. It takes two to tango, and who knows what a trading partner would have wanted.

But there is one deal that is sufficiently close that we can somewhat extrapolate it to us: the Jets obtained Green Bay's first round pick (#30) for their second rounder (#36) and a fourth rounder (#113). What if we had made that trade instead of Green Bay? The Jets had no third round pick, but they had an earlier 4th rounder at #102, so maybe we could have gotten that one with our higher pick.

The only tackle taken between #26 and our next pick was John Greco at 65, and some places list him as a guard. The only other OL taken during that span was a center (Mike Pollack at 59). So I think Brown was an excellent bet to be there at 36. Here's the teams picking between 26 and 36 assuming we made the trade with the Jets:

Jets: we probably don't make the trade without assurances that they wouldn't take an OT with it.
San Diego: with a stacked roster, they were in total BPA mode.
San Fran: they took an OT in the first round last year that they're happy with.
Green Bay: there's a risk here (they took OTs in rounds 4 and 5), but they were looking skill positions early on.
Miami: no way they'd take an OT at 32 after taking Long at #1.
St. Louis: this was probably the biggest question mark since they took Greco in the third.
Washington: they traded back to get this pick so they would not have to reach for a WR in round 1. They clearly wanted receivers since that was their first three picks.
Kansas City: they drafted Albert in the first round. No risk there.

So the only two teams the Texans had to worry about if they traded down to 36 was Green Bay and St. Louis. That is not to say, of course, that another team could have swooped in ahead of us and stole Brown (like the Cowboys did with Jenkins).

Still, we were obviously hellbent on taking an OT. If Brown becomes a good starting LT, then I'm thrilled with the pick regardless of when it was made.
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Old 04-28-2008   #26
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Default Re: Brown poll

FWIW, Brown was responsible for 8 1/2 sacks, last season (as a senior).

I don't know that the Texans would prefer starting a rookie left tackle over Salaam, that is still seen somewhat as a project.... Again, I thought we drafted this type of guy last year in Brandon Frye...

Anyway, as I stated, I am willing to give 'the benefit of doubt' on this draft pick because:
A) Gibbs weighed in.
B) Ole Miss brings up a good point about trading down and afforded the two extra picks which netted, Adibi and Barber.
C) And TC, bringing up the fact that we have been somewhat "jinxed at the LT", so lets stockpile some guys.
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Old 04-28-2008   #27
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I really don't think Brown would have lasted much longer with San Fran rumored to like him (pick #29) and worst case, I see him selected at the top of the 2nd- so I don't think we were really "reaching" that bad on him. According to Kiper or Lance's rankings, maybe we were but the most important rating there is, is by the Texans.
I would have been very surprised if the Niners took Brown at 29. They gave New England (what turned out to be) the #7 pick so they could take Joe Staley last year. With all their needs, I'd have been shocked if they used another #1 on an OT. If I had made the deal Green Bay made (trading the #30 for the Jets' #36 and a fourth-rounder), I would have only been sweating Green Bay's pick and St Louis'.
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Old 04-28-2008   #28
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
FWIW, Brown was responsible for 8 1/2 sacks, last season (as a senior)
For what it's worth, Brown faced guys like Chris Long, Philip Merling, Calais Campbell and Darrell Robertson last year. In addition to playing against LSU (where everyone struggled), FSU and Kansas in the Orange Bowl. He's a project, but it is not like he was giving up sacks to nobodies.
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Old 04-28-2008   #29
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
For what it's worth, Brown faced guys like Chris Long, Philip Merling, Calais Campbell and Darrell Robertson last year. In addition to playing against LSU (where everyone struggled), FSU and Kansas in the Orange Bowl. He's a project, but it is not like he was giving up sacks to nobodies.
Great college players, but none of which has the accolades of say; Dwight Freeney and many others - in the NFL...

Being good in the ACC isn't the same thing, no matter how you slice it.
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Old 04-28-2008   #30
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Default Re: Brown poll

FWIW we netted Slaton and Barber from the additonal picks........
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Old 04-28-2008   #31
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
FWIW, Brown was responsible for 8 1/2 sacks, last season (as a senior).

I don't know that the Texans would prefer starting a rookie left tackle over Salaam, that is still seen somewhat as a project.... Again, I thought we drafted this type of guy last year in Brandon Frye...

Anyway, as I stated, I am willing to give 'the benefit of doubt' on this draft pick because:
A) Gibbs weighed in.
B) Ole Miss brings up a good point about trading down and afforded the two extra picks which netted, Adibi and Barber.
C) And TC, bringing up the fact that we have been somewhat "jinxed at the LT", so lets stockpile some guys.
And in one of the press conferences, Kubiak says they drafted Frye with an idea of turning him into a guard.

I don't think you can look at the sacks this guy gave up playing on a bad offensive line and really know whether he's really to blame. It could have been the QB's fault or a blown pickup by some other player. You know that our guys studied the tape on this guy and came away with the feeling that he's the guy.
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Old 04-28-2008   #32
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
And in one of the press conferences, Kubiak says they drafted Frye with an idea of turning him into a guard.

I don't think you can look at the sacks this guy gave up playing on a bad offensive line and really know whether he's really to blame. It could have been the QB's fault or a blown pickup by some other player. You know that our guys studied the tape on this guy and came away with the feeling that he's the guy.
Cool, Salaam could have been a pro-bowler last season.. Dang Matt, Sage and Chester....
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Old 04-28-2008   #33
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Default Re: Brown poll

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FWIW we netted Slaton and Barber from the additonal picks........
I think Old Miss mentioned Adibi and Barber, but yes, Slaton.

**********************************************

As I said, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Especially when Vinny brought up a GREAT point to me by making some comparisons of this pick with Brad Hopkins (for old Oilers fans)... That worked out just fine for Holovak, the Oilers and folks in possum Holler..

Thanks, Vinny!!!!
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Old 04-28-2008   #34
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Brando View Post
FWIW we netted Slaton and Barber from the additonal picks........
Oh yea, thanks. Adibi = 4th rd pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck
And in one of the press conferences, Kubiak says they drafted Frye with an idea of turning him into a guard.
I found that really interesting that Kubiak saw Frye switching to guard right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooston Texan
For what it's worth, Brown faced guys like Chris Long, Philip Merling, Calais Campbell and Darrell Robertson last year. In addition to playing against LSU (where everyone struggled), FSU and Kansas in the Orange Bowl. He's a project, but it is not like he was giving up sacks to nobodies.
Not that he faced him last year, but Brown's first game as a tackle (RT) he had to go up against Mario Williams and supposedly he held his ground.
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Old 04-28-2008   #35
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Cool, Salaam could have been a pro-bowler last season.. Dang Matt, Sage and Chester....


The point was that you have to look at the tape to determine whose fault it was not that you can blamestorm. You can't just look at 8.5 sacks and say that the guy got beat like a drum 8.5 times. He might have. I just don't think we would have drafted him if that was the case.
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Old 04-28-2008   #36
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Default Re: Brown poll

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The point was that you have to look at the tape to determine whose fault it was not that you can blamestorm. You can't just look at 8.5 sacks and say that the guy got beat like a drum 8.5 times. He might have. I just don't think we would have drafted him if that was the case.
I guess the smiley face, meant as tongue-in-cheek was lost on you....
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Old 04-28-2008   #37
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Default Re: Brown poll

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
One thing about the pick: the Texans made it very quickly. If I recall correctly from the espn broadcast, the pick was declared "in" with about 7:30 left on the clock. So that may indeed mean that Brown was the guy we were hoping to take all along.

As far as trade-downs, I refuse to speculate on what deals we may have struck absent something tangible that showed another team was interested. It takes two to tango, and who knows what a trading partner would have wanted.

But there is one deal that is sufficiently close that we can somewhat extrapolate it to us: the Jets obtained Green Bay's first round pick (#30) for their second rounder (#36) and a fourth rounder (#113). What if we had made that trade instead of Green Bay? The Jets had no third round pick, but they had an earlier 4th rounder at #102, so maybe we could have gotten that one with our higher pick.

The only tackle taken between #26 and our next pick was John Greco at 65, and some places list him as a guard. The only other OL taken during that span was a center (Mike Pollack at 59). So I think Brown was an excellent bet to be there at 36. Here's the teams picking between 26 and 36 assuming we made the trade with the Jets:

Jets: we probably don't make the trade without assurances that they wouldn't take an OT with it.
San Diego: with a stacked roster, they were in total BPA mode.
San Fran: they took an OT in the first round last year that they're happy with.
Green Bay: there's a risk here (they took OTs in rounds 4 and 5), but they were looking skill positions early on.
Miami: no way they'd take an OT at 32 after taking Long at #1.
St. Louis: this was probably the biggest question mark since they took Greco in the third.
Washington: they traded back to get this pick so they would not have to reach for a WR in round 1. They clearly wanted receivers since that was their first three picks.
Kansas City: they drafted Albert in the first round. No risk there.

So the only two teams the Texans had to worry about if they traded down to 36 was Green Bay and St. Louis. That is not to say, of course, that another team could have swooped in ahead of us and stole Brown (like the Cowboys did with Jenkins).

Still, we were obviously hellbent on taking an OT. If Brown becomes a good starting LT, then I'm thrilled with the pick regardless of when it was made.

Or maybe, the next tackle wasn't taken until 65 because there was a big drop off of athleticism after Brown.

The Texans war room doesn't have the benefit of hindsight when they have to figure if they can risk moving down.

If you have a really unusually good tackle draft class, and you get one of them, that is a good thing.

But yeah, they were targeting LT with their first pick. They saw value up high for that need, and that they thought they could get good value lower for running back and corner back in this particular draft class.
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Old 04-28-2008   #38
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Default Re: Brown poll

If you told me before the draft that were were going to be able to trade down in the 1st and we'd select LT-Duane Brown, CB-Antwuan Molden, RB-Steve Slaton, and OLB- Xavier Adibi- I would have told you there's no way we could get all those players but I'd be thrilled if it were to happen.

Last edited by Ole Miss Texan; 04-28-2008 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 04-28-2008   #39
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Default Re: Brown poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I guess the smiley face, meant as tongue-in-cheek was lost on you....
It wasn't lost.

It was just misinterpreted.
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Old 04-28-2008   #40
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Default Re: Brown poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
It wasn't lost.

It was just misinterpreted.
No worries..... I'm not a full strength today, so the attempt on my end was probably lame anyway...
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