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Old 01-10-2005   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4toZ
As long as he gets the time to get the ball to the reciever, he can throw underhand between his legs for all that matters to me.
..sorry, just had a strange visual of that.
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Old 01-10-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by block4carrmore
Dan Pastorini couldn't hit the side of a barn.

Dan was a very good NFL QB for some years. He makes some really good points on his 610 show.
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Old 01-10-2005   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
Did you know? the most yds DAN has ever thrown for was 2,400 yds, most TDs 16
I don't think they had 16 game seasons back then. Besides they did run the
ball quite a bit - they had a descent RB, guy name E.Campbell.
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Old 01-10-2005   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
Did you know? the most yds DAN has ever thrown for was 2,400 yds, most TDs 16, best comp.56%. DAVID 3,500 yds. 16TDs 61%comp. Lets not forget how many more times David was sacked. So i dont think Dan should be telling David how to throw the football.
Dan was asked what he would change about Carr and he answered honestly; he made a point to say it was constructive criticism and that he thinks with some coaching he can improve. I'd much rather he be honest. He said he's on target as far as developing and to me his points are valid. I'd rather hear what he has to say because he's "been there and done that".

And Pastorini was mauled during his years with the Oilers. In fact I heard them kidding him that the flak jacket was invented for him in particular. So it wasn't an easy ride for him either.
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Old 01-10-2005   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWJD
And Pastorini was mauled during his years with the Oilers. In fact I heard them kidding him that the flak jacket was invented for him in particular. So it wasn't an easy ride for him either.
It was made for him so he could protect his ribs for the shots he was taking over and over. It was career threatening punishment he was absorbing and I remember them showing off this jacket with a baseball bat on the news when it was first made.

Dan was a classic 70's style QB. Big arm and lots of deep, deep downfield passing. Look up the stats for Joe Namath if you want some reference to passing yardage totals in relation to Dan's. Namath averaged 2125 yards per year in his career.

Pastorini was beat to death behind some miserable lines and he never produced big time stats but he had a fantastic deep ball, and was a fantastic leader. Pastorini knows what he is talking about. You don't have to play the position like Johnny Unitas in order to have an opinion on quarterbacking.
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Old 01-10-2005   #46
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
I don't think they had 16 game seasons back then. Besides they did run the
ball quite a bit - they had a descent RB, guy name E.Campbell.
The first seven of Dan's years in the league were 14 game seasons, after that it was 16 games including the 2400 yd season.

I heard somewhere that the Texans run a lot too. Joke--couldn't resist. This is like trying to compare apples and oranges though.
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Old 01-10-2005   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Dan was a classic 70's style QB. Big arm and lots of deep, deep downfield passing. Look up the stats for Joe Namath if you want some reference to passing yardage totals in relation to Dan's. Namath averaged 2125 yards per year in his career.
It was a completely different era and I think that's lost on a lot of fans these days. The passing game was there of course but it was nowhere near as complex as it is today and no team in my admittedly fuddled memory relied on the pass to the extent that they do today with maybe the exception of Dan Fouts and the San Diego Chargers.

Quote:
Pastorini was beat to death behind some miserable lines and he never produced big time stats but he had a fantastic deep ball, and was a fantastic leader. Pastorini knows what he is talking about. You don't have to play the position like Johnny Unitas in order to have an opinion on quarterbacking.
Dan's arm and that "fantastic deep ball" were the reason Al Davis traded for him if I remember correctly. The Raiders loved the bomb back in those days and Stabler wasn't able to do that anymore (not that he was ever the threat to go deep that Pastorini was). Pastorini went to the Raiders and was the starter before going down with a broken leg. Jim Plunkett stepped in and the rest was history. I've often wondered what would have happened that year if Pastorini hadn't been injured early. Would the Raiders have still gone to the Super Bowl? Would Pastorini have gotten a ring? Would Dan Pastorini had the kind of resurgence that Plunkett had late in his career?

We'll never know but I agree with you Vinny on one thing. Dan Pastorini can talk about the QB position all he wants. He earned it.
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Old 01-10-2005   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
I don't think they had 16 game seasons back then. Besides they did run the
ball quite a bit - they had a descent RB, guy name E.Campbell.
Pastorini was already in his 8th season when Earl joined the team in '78. He got the holy **** beat out of him in his early years - long before the Oilers were good. Dante played with Earl for only two seasons.
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Old 01-10-2005   #49
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And as was mentioned in a Chronicle article last week, Pastorini requested to be traded because of the way he was treated by Houston fans. In particular lying on the field and hearing cheers. I think that was the injury the flak jacket was invented for.
The article

It's a good thing the Texans don't have a backup QB as popular as Giff Nielson or Cody Carlson....
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Old 01-10-2005   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
Did you know? the most yds DAN has ever thrown for was 2,400 yds, most TDs 16, best comp.56%. DAVID 3,500 yds. 16TDs 61%comp. Lets not forget how many more times David was sacked. So i dont think Dan should be telling David how to throw the football.
Last time I checked, the best coaches in any sport, were never very successful themselves. Just because someone wasnt the greatest QB, doesnt mean his opinion on throwing mechanics is worthless because Carr has played better earlier in his career...
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Old 01-10-2005   #51
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Default Poor Dan

He was a victim of a bad club.Until they hired Sid Gillman the Oilers stunk.Talk about the Texans draft check out the early Oilers.The gem they did have was arguably the greatest safety of all time.But he was traded to the Redskins,thank God for the Texans.Back to Dante, Mr.Carr will never face the likes of the 70's Steelers.That in itself gives Pastorini a right to an opinion.
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Old 01-10-2005   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
Love Carr, but he is HOLDING THE BALL TOOOOO LONG!!! Sling that ball, try to put it to the open man or a place where only a Texan WR can cath it..... and live with the results. I am willing to admit that >30% of those sacks were Carr's fault.
when did our passing game revolve around a 3 step drop? it never has and a lot of the routes our recievers run take time to develop. aside from the quick hitch and the 1 - 3 slant routes we throw per game everything thrown to a reciever takes time...time our line hasnt provided.
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Old 01-10-2005   #53
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the funny thing about this has been even though he has a low throwing position not many of his balls get batted down by d-lineman...mainly because he moves out of the pocket left and right...i thinik once we get stronger in the o-line department we might get to see how carr's throwing motion really will affect the game...but the main point is this...yeah his throwing motion is horrible...sometimes it looks like he's shot putting the ball to the recievers but what are we gonna do...bench him and draft another QB...i don't think so...get over it...he's throwing motion isn't the reason this team is losing more games than winning...both lines are
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Old 01-10-2005   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
WE HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING TO RAG ON HIM ABOUT, SO LETS TALK ABOUT HIS THROWING MOTION!
Yep, griping about the THROWING MOTION of your 1st-player-taken QB is really off-base for a football forum...

I don't know anyone who doesn't think he's a "great guy", but he's still got some mechanical issues to fix. While that's no big shock for a 3rd-year QB, it's not something to be ignored either.
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Old 01-11-2005   #55
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I can remember a few of Carr's passes that have been batted up and then intercepted. While this happens to many QBs, everything that can be done SHOULD be done to prevent it. Never know when it might cost us a game that might cost us a chance at the playoffs one day. If players out of college already knew everything there is to know about the NFL, there wouldn't be any point of draft speculation. Anyone that thinks Carr is perfect and doesn't need to improve in any facet is just ignorant. This isn't a knock on Carr but a clear reality for just about every player in the league, veteran or rookie.
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Old 01-11-2005   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
Carr should be smart enought to 1-2-3 Release (even if nobody was open)..

Interception = living with it
so first you want carr to rewrite the offense? secondly, you want carr to dump off the ball no matter what? (huh?) and thirdly, despite being critical of carr for what you call holding on to the ball to long, a bad throwing motion, etc...you wont be critical of carr if he throws more interceptions?

righhhhhtttttt.

and last time i checked a sack (5-10 yard loss) vs. an interception (change of possesion) favors the offense.

sack=living with it
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Last edited by powda; 01-11-2005 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 01-11-2005   #57
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Seems to me that he throws better with alittle side arm.
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Old 01-11-2005   #58
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Default The Point

I don't want my preacher to be my QB if he can't throw.Carr was picked #1 so he would be groomed along the way.Is anyone 75% sure Carrs the real deal.I was 80% after his first year.
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Old 01-11-2005   #59
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I agree, Carr is not performing like Peyton Manning. Wait....nobody is performing like Peyton Manning except....Peyton Manning. It's a little tough on Carr to compare him to a Hall of Fame Quarterback who just broke the single season record for touchdowns (and has a great running game + pass protection!). Carr was showing great progress early in the season when he had time to throw. When the pass protection began to fail later in the season, so did his numbers. He's not good enough at this point to overcome poor blocking, but when he gets good protection he is good enough to make things happen, IMO.
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Old 01-11-2005   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
Manning + see blitz =1-2-3 Ball out
Carr + see blitz = 1-2-3 Run away to sidelines
More like:

Manning + see blitz, thinks whoohoo I can (a) audible to a 10-15 yd pass in single coverage knowing my line will pick up the blitz, (b) audible to a deep pass in single coverage knowing my line will pick up the blitz or (c) audible to let Edge gash them since they are blitzing--nah, my OL has held up the last 150 plays, I am going with (a) or (b).

Carr + see blitz, thinks damn my OL has let the last 150 of these guys through I can (a) see if they pull off a fluke and give me some protection and if they don't run screaming for my life trying to make something happen or (b) audible to DD--screw it this is why I was picked number one and everyone on the MB complains everytime I audible to a running play, sigh, let's try it again--1 step, 2 steps, oh crud here they come again...thump, roll, pfft, spit grass out.
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