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Old 04-08-2008   #61
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Roc Hoover View Post
I almost get the giggles when I hear "Draft Expert Charlie Casserly" on tv. Then you see the caption below "Texans GM 2000 - 2006" and you realize it wasn't a bad dream afterall.
So true

How he still has a job talking about football is beyond me.

People on this board have a higher football I.Q. than CC.

The fact that he was always kissing up to the league office & didn't get the job with them humors me.
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Old 04-08-2008   #62
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
As much as the Texans would love to trade down its only going to happen if someone very coveted falls into their lap (Williams out of Vandy, Clady, Rivers, etc.) and then the Texans would have to consider drafting the player themselves.
There's also the reality of having few realistic trading partners, and they would have to covet said player. Different teams will assign players different values, and thus this is not entirely accurate, but if we're following the draft value chart,
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/fea...aluechart.html
if we want to stay in the 1st round and get a 2nd rounder, we're looking at late picks in both rounds (Cowboys, Packers, Giants, discounting Indy and Jax), making it less likely the Texans could get someone they grade as a 1st rounder at a position of need; i.e., they likely miss out on the CBs and LTs and end up "reaching."

For a 1st and a 3rd only Washington, Pittsburgh, and Seattle yield near equal value. Barring a rare three-team trade, the only possibility for two 2nd rounders is with Atlanta. For an early 2nd and early 3rd we'd be giving up more and those teams - Miami, KC, St. Louis - would probably want more picks rather than fewer. The other possibilities, including some combination of 08 and 09 picks, would be unlikely to yield more players who could help the team this year.
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Old 04-09-2008   #63
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
yeah and now its being spun that he chose Mario over Bush. McNair and Kubiak chose Mario over Bush, not Casserley. In fact, after the draft Casserley said he had Bush as the #1 rated player on the board, after the fact. Now he wants to take credit for it now that it looks better. Screw Cass.
im not a casserly fan (who is) but thats BS... i think most reasonable fans agree that casserly was consistently high on mario and made a strong case to mcnair and kubiak to take him which they also saw and agreed with


anything else you want to pull out of your ass?
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Old 04-09-2008   #64
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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im not a casserly fan (who is) but thats BS... i think most reasonable fans agree that casserly was consistently high on mario and made a strong case to mcnair and kubiak to take him which they also saw and agreed with


anything else you want to pull out of your ass?
Let's play fair and be kind.


The history of Casserly and the 2006 draft has been muddled. I think the best information that is out there is that Casserly wanted to sign and announce Bush very early in the process, but that he was overruled by those who wanted to explore all options including trading the pick. This is why there were rumors early on saying that Bush was definitely the guy because CC was leaking it (and wanted it to be official).

In retrospect, I wish Casserly had made a stronger case to the media and public about Williams. They surprised folks with the pick, and then really never made a case about why they picked him other than his combine measureables and that he played DE. It would have still been a huge storm in Houston, but at least there would have been some basic information about him.
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Old 04-09-2008   #65
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

That is true...it seemed the public conception was that the Texans took Mario because he agreed to terms.
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Old 04-09-2008   #66
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Williams is the only LT I've seen that might be there. Otah and Baker projected late first or early 2nd. You would not take a franchise type back in Stewart? We have little idea what we get with Brown and while I am glad he is on roster, he would go quickly to # 2 if we got Stewart. If WIlliams there,he has my first vote. Next is Stewart and Mike Jenkins third. I think all 3 will be gone and a trade may not be there as most teams have same chance to get a good player after 18 as we do.
Sorry, but I don't think all that much of Stewart as a franchise back. I see him as a second rd back at best. I could be wrong, but in the times I have seen him he just didn't seem that elusive and he doesn't seem to run real aggresive. Granted he is so big he will break tackles, but to me he looks like he should run like Jamaal Lewis, but instead runs more like Jerry Lewis. He was also injury prone his first two years. So, he had one breakout year. I don't feel he will be a bust, but I don't see "franchise" back in him either. Not at all. JMO.
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Old 04-09-2008   #67
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Sorry, but I don't think all that much of Stewart as a franchise back. I see him as a second rd back at best. I could be wrong, but in the times I have seen him he just didn't seem that elusive and he doesn't seem to run real aggresive. Granted he is so big he will break tackles, but to me he looks like he should run like Jamaal Lewis, but instead runs more like Jerry Lewis. He was also injury prone his first two years. So, he had one breakout year. I don't feel he will be a bust, but I don't see "franchise" back in him either. Not at all. JMO.
In response,
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player...layerId=173412
STate record RB;
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player...layerId=173412
"Consider this (2007) season another growth spurt in which Stewart no longer tries to run over people or go the distance every play and thereby risking injury as in his first two years." In other words, he is maturing into a better back. The article goes on to say "He ranks 7th in nation with 130.4 yards per game BUT #1 among top 25 RBs in yards per carry @ 6.69."

In High School after 4 years he had 7,755 yds and 95 TDS. AT combine 235 lbs he ran 4.48. His "break out year" was as a junior and he rushed for almost 1,000 as a sophomore. His cathcing ability is another positive.

Opinions are just that and you have yours and mine is "franchise type" back.
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Last edited by badboy; 04-09-2008 at 03:48 PM. Reason: typo correction on 40 speed.
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Old 04-09-2008   #68
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

It HURTS me to say this, but the Cowgirls. If they had a really quick free-saftey they would be in the superbowl next year. Hopefully the Late Wade Phillips (cause he's dead to me now) doesn't realize that.
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Old 04-09-2008   #69
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Let's play fair and be kind.


The history of Casserly and the 2006 draft has been muddled. I think the best information that is out there is that Casserly wanted to sign and announce Bush very early in the process, but that he was overruled by those who wanted to explore all options including trading the pick. This is why there were rumors early on saying that Bush was definitely the guy because CC was leaking it (and wanted it to be official).

In retrospect, I wish Casserly had made a stronger case to the media and public about Williams. They surprised folks with the pick, and then really never made a case about why they picked him other than his combine measureables and that he played DE. It would have still been a huge storm in Houston, but at least there would have been some basic information about him.
I thought they said more about their decision than that he was a DE and what his measurables were. Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships? Kubiak said he was a game changing pass rusher and someone who would cause opposing offenses problems. Smith said he had no flaws in his personal life or football abilities. I'm just curious, would you have recommended that they put a letter in the paper to the fans, more info on the web site, a TV spot, or just say more about him at his press conference? Or was it just that those words weren't coming from Casserly?
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Old 04-09-2008   #70
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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I thought they said more about their decision than that he was a DE and what his measurables were. Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships? Kubiak said he was a game changing pass rusher and someone who would cause opposing offenses problems. Smith said he had no flaws in his personal life or football abilities. I'm just curious, would you have recommended that they put a letter in the paper to the fans, more info on the web site, a TV spot, or just say more about him at his press conference? Or was it just that those words weren't coming from Casserly?
That's all right brain talking. Blah blah blah. The press conferences were all fluff. Basically, they told you that Mario Williams graded out higher than Julius Peppers, but they didn't show you why, either through playing statistics, combine numbers, video etc. They gave out stats, but they didn't give out basis of comparison. Most fans don't know what those numbers mean without context of comparing them to players that they do know about. They had no quotes from his coaches or his teammates.

And given that most stories in the Chronicle have some amount of regurgitation from the press releases, they could have given that information to the Chronicle and we could have read the regurgitation.

These are the stories that they had at the time on the HT.com website.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=2456

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=2455

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=2465

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=2457

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=2448

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=2447

If you are making a pick that you know you will get killed about, you need to sell it better than they did. Not over sell it, but make rational left brain reasons why Mario was worth a #1 pick. The way they announced this pick to the world, as a last minute idea with little selling in the context of the VY/Bush thing, left Mario in the lurch.

Bygones.
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Old 04-09-2008   #71
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
If you are making a pick that you know you will get killed about, you need to sell it better than they did. Not over sell it, but make rational left brain reasons why Mario was worth a #1 pick. The way they announced this pick to the world, as a last minute idea with little selling in the context of the VY/Bush thing, left Mario in the lurch.

Bygones.
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Umm yeah, I don't know if they got the memo about the TPS reports, but I understand that Matt Schaub is a hell of a leader.
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Old 04-09-2008   #72
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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I thought they said more about their decision than that he was a DE and what his measurables were. Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships? Kubiak said he was a game changing pass rusher and someone who would cause opposing offenses problems. Smith said he had no flaws in his personal life or football abilities. I'm just curious, would you have recommended that they put a letter in the paper to the fans, more info on the web site, a TV spot, or just say more about him at his press conference? Or was it just that those words weren't coming from Casserly?
The thought that flashed through my mind was Cam Cameron defending Ted Ginn Jr. at the #9 pick.

"Boooo BOOOOOO Booooo!"
"crowd grumbles"
"we really believe Ted brings a lot to the offense and hey...he can return punts!"
"mock cheers with fans realizing they were in store for a long year"
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Old 04-09-2008   #73
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

I'm just worried bout us becoming like Arizona where we start becoming the team that gets a lot of preseason hype, then flame out.
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Old 04-09-2008   #74
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships?
A defensive coordinator extolling the virtues of defense? I'm speechless.
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Old 04-09-2008   #75
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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A defensive coordinator extolling the virtues of defense? I'm speechless.
And you'd be more verbose if it came from Sherman? Defensive coordinators aren't the only ones to blame for making "Defenses win championships" cliche. Point is they defended the pick, whether it was well received or not.
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Old 04-10-2008   #76
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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And you'd be more verbose if it came from Sherman? Defensive coordinators aren't the only ones to blame for making "Defenses win championships" cliche. Point is they defended the pick, whether it was well received or not.
The way they prepared the fans for the pick and the way they promoted the pick was very poor. A very right brained discussion, when the discussions of the draft have become increasingly left brained.

They had the first freaking pick. They knew who they were going to choose. They had plenty of time to put together something more substantive than hey we need a pass rush, defense wins championships, lookie he is a big dude who can play multiple positions.

I was proud that Mario Williams put my old blog post providing basic research and information about him on his website until I realized that the reason his people did it was because the mainstream media didn't write anything that was particularly fair about his background.

Why? Because the Texans didn't spoonfeed them the information.

I had to research Mario myself because the local newspaper put nothing of substance in it. Most of the information I could find about him was BEFORE the draft, before the hype machine said he was Sam Bowie. The Chronicle writers said the pick sucked, then some went on vacation, and then weeks later John Lopez wrote an article about Mario's sister (a similar article was written by USA Today the day after the draft).


/sorry about this getting off topic, but I truly believe that CC and the Texans did a misservice to fans and to Williams with the way that the 2006 draft was handled.
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Old 04-10-2008   #77
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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I was proud that Mario Williams put my old blog post providing basic research and information about him on his website until I realized that the reason his people did it was because the mainstream media didn't write anything that was particularly fair about his background.

Why? Because the Texans didn't spoonfeed them the information.

I had to research Mario myself because the local newspaper put nothing of substance in it. Most of the information I could find about him was BEFORE the draft, before the hype machine said he was Sam Bowie. The Chronicle writers said the pick sucked, then some went on vacation, and then weeks later John Lopez wrote an article about Mario's sister (a similar article was written by USA Today the day after the draft).
TC -

Everything you said is dead-on, but at the time, you had a GM with one foot out the door, a head coach who'd never participated in a draft above the level of Offensive Coordinator, and an owner who probably should have known better than to trust these guys to handle the PR side of things, but he obviously didn't.

That's not a knock on Kube's, but it's definitely a knock on CC. In the time between the end of the last season and now, I've seen it reported that the reason CC was fired was because he was responsible for the Mario pick (Which is laughable except for the fact that there are apparently people who believe it), and you've said he wanted Bush, and was overruled.

Can it possibly be a coincidence that two years later, there is still confusion and uncertainty on a national basis, and basically, CC can get away with spinning it any way he wants. Yes, he could have done a better job selling it to the media and making them understand it, but because he didn't - he was free to say later that his actions were a result of not being in favor of the pick. As it is, since MW's looking like a pretty good selection right now, we have lemmings who either don't care about accuracy or are to lazy to verify things, and end up writing about Mario's 14 sack season being "Vindication" for Casserly.

I've heard numerous times that the reason the Redskins took Shuler in '94 was because Norv Turner wanted him. I have no idea if that's accurate, but I know it's what CC wants the world to believe. I just get the feeling that he intentionally set this up to be able to deny any role if the pick bombed, and claim all the credit if it turned out to be good. The spoon-feeding you correctly claim they didn't do wouldn't have served that purpose.
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Old 04-10-2008   #78
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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And you'd be more verbose if it came from Sherman?
Nope. Then I wouldn't have commented since it would had more significance (to me anyway) in making the point.
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Old 04-10-2008   #79
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

If the definition of contention is playoffs (which I think is what they meant), there are probably a lot of teams that are one draft pick (and a healthy season) away from contention. I'd start by naming all the 7, 8, and 9 win teams coming back relatively intact that didn't make the playoffs last year as possibilities.

I think Kubiak/Smith would say the Texans are still a couple drafts away from where they need to be - and I think he would be right in saying that. But there's probably not too many coaches that wouldn't say that.

The Texans got a lot of 'contender' hype coming off that 7-9 in '04.

It's all noise/filler to me...

Bring on the draft so we have something real to chew on.
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Old 04-10-2008   #80
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj. View Post

Bring on the draft so we have something real to chew on.

Preach it brother!
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