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Old 04-07-2008   #21
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

Spot on TC

I hope we spend #18 on a LT.

The rest of our draft picks should be spent on CB's & DL
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Old 04-07-2008   #22
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Spot on TC

I hope we spend #18 on a LT.

The rest of our draft picks should be spent on CB's & DL
I take the Texans at their word that they are a best player available type of team. (with the very few exceptions of where they seem set). I could see any number of positions being filled at #18 depending on who is there. I could see them trading down if they have any takers as #18 is where there often is movement and the Texans need players. (Get a good player, but the salaries aren't as high as in the top 10)

I could completely see the fans freaking out if such a trade down occurs if someone in a need position is there, it is the fan's fave, and we don't take that guy. (Though it wasn't a trade down situation, people freaked when the Texans took DeMeco Ryans at the beginning of the second instead of lineman).

The newspapers and fans are often CB, LT, RB, but depending on how the draft board goes, it could be any number of players.

By the way, out of the first round players, who are the guys that are physically the most gifted, academically and football smart, and are known as having very high character? (They are not afraid of small school guys or upside guys with good measurables). The Texans love these guys.

Once you start moving down off the top of the draft where player evaluation gets much more subjective from team to team, these are the factors that become very important to the Texans. Tell me who the reputed smart, good character guys are, the guys with the light shining behind their eyes, and those are the guys the Texans are sniffing out.

Just as a matter of odds, there are a bunch of good linemen and corners in this draft, so it may be where BPA meets need right away.
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Old 04-07-2008   #23
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Just as a matter of odds, there are a bunch of good linemen and corners in this draft, so it may be where BPA meets need right away.
This is the phrase I should repeat often, because I am not a BPA guy myself persay. Position has to play a role into it as well.

As always TC your spot on with great vision.
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Old 04-07-2008   #24
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

I would not mind trading down.

Hopefully someone wants Brohm & we can do the trade down thing.

I believe there is more value in 2nd rd. LT's (Nicks or Collins) than if we stay @ 18 & don't get extra picks.
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Old 04-07-2008   #25
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I would not mind trading down.

Hopefully someone wants Brohm & we can do the trade down thing.

I believe there is more value in 2nd rd. LT's (Nicks or Collins) than if we stay @ 18 & don't get extra picks.

You say this but what if your favo guy is at #18 and the team trades down and misses him. Will you freak?

I try to keep an open mind on draft day and work backwards. I have biases I am leaning towards, but I see the picks they chose and try to figure out why they might have chosen a particular guy instead of the Kiper/draft guy way of seeing things. I try not pretend to be expert because I know all I have done with most of the drafted players is read about them and not see them play, and that there is much misinformation out there. Then I watch em play.

People for years have had difficulties figuring out who Denver was going to draft on the offensive side of the ball, particularly with running backs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball, the Texans may make some headscratching picks that they feel fit what they are trying to do. (Owen Daniels?)
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Old 04-07-2008   #26
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
You say this but what if your favo guy is at #18 and the team trades down and misses him. Will you freak?

I try to keep an open mind on draft day and work backwards. I have biases I am leaning towards, but I see the picks they chose and try to figure out why they might have chosen a particular guy instead of the Kiper/draft guy way of seeing things. I try not pretend to be expert because I know all I have done with most of the drafted players is read about them and not see them play, and that there is much misinformation out there. Then I watch em play.

People for years have had difficulties figuring out who Denver was going to draft on the offensive side of the ball, particularly with running backs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball, the Texans may make some headscratching picks that they feel fit what they are trying to do. (Owen Daniels?)
Actually, I tend to agree with him. I wouldn't mind a trade down either. I think the quality of players is pretty close from the last half of the 1st round through the first half of the 2nd round. I just think that there are going to be several players of the same value there for us at 18 that we could afford to trade down and still come away with a player we targeted.
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Old 04-07-2008   #27
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Actually, I tend to agree with him. I wouldn't mind a trade down either. I think the quality of players is pretty close from the last half of the 1st round through the first half of the 2nd round. I just think that there are going to be several players of the same value there for us at 18 that we could afford to trade down and still come away with a player we targeted.
I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.

I just think it is funny how fans get attached to certain players in the draft. And then in retrospect holler about the ones that weren't picked but ended up being good, (and don't say much about the ones who ended up being non-good).

I'm not arguing with anyone on this point, but just mentally preparing people for this as a possibility.
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Old 04-08-2008   #28
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.

I just think it is funny how fans get attached to certain players in the draft. And then in retrospect holler about the ones that weren't picked but ended up being good, (and don't say much about the ones who ended up being non-good).

I'm not arguing with anyone on this point, but just mentally preparing people for this as a possibility.
I understand what you are saying. Personally, I don't see anyone falling to us that I couldn't do without. I mean, sure there are guys that I would like for us to take, but there isn't any one guy that I am sold on over the rest. Right now, my top choice is Brandon Albert, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he fell to us and we traded back for more picks. What it would mean to me is that we will get one more quality player that we wouldn't have otherwise been able to get. The draft is a crap shoot anyway. We don't know for sure if any one player is going to be a stud or a dud when he gets to the NFL. With a trade down, we increase our odds of finding that stud by being able to pick one more player.

That's just my POV, but I see what you are talking about. I keep seeing some people drool over OT Williams, but I'm really not that impressed with him. Some people want Mendenhall or Stewart, but I believe we can find a very good back in the 4th, or even later.
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Old 04-08-2008   #29
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

i would not mind a trade down because im still waiting for a ball-hawk at FS. trade down several spots, pick up whatever smith can get us and draft phillips. i think im one of the only people on the boards wanting us to go that direction because alot of people are satisfied with demps.

i remember a few years back i really wanted the texans to trade up for sean taylor. that was a bad draft year for houston IMO. we got dunta, but the only other player still on the roster is earl. (that was the babin draft)
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Old 04-08-2008   #30
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
This is the same Mel Kiper that still thinks we made a mistake passing on Bush...
This is the same Mel Kiper that said that there was absolutely no way that David Carr OR Joey Harrington would be busts.
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Old 04-08-2008   #31
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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This is the same Mel Kiper that said that there was absolutely no way that David Carr OR Joey Harrington would be busts.
he is also still standing by his pick of Reggie Bush #1 overall
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Old 04-08-2008   #32
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

The real problem with drafts, is BPA is often confused with most popular player available, and BEST is a relative term and subject to criticism. The hype machine tells us each year who the BEST is, but rarely do these guys get it right. I was one of the few people that thought Mario was the BPA, contrary to all the hype. The words "Freak, Phenom, etc usually don't describe the media's top picks. They do however describe a lot of the top players taken in the draft every year. People may not want to admit it, but genetics has a lot to do with athletes. The problem I have this year is I really don't see many of those types of players. That's why I think more picks is better this year, and we can find talent all the way down to round 6. The biggest weakness of our team in my opinion is not running, but stopping the run. I think to address that we need a space-eating DT and tackling machine at SSLB to compliment Ryans and Mario. I unfortunately also believe Kubiak and companies willingness to settle for mediocre safeties will always weaken or ability to stuff the run. I have no idea who we will draft. Like someone else mentioned, I tend to evaluate our effectiveness in the draft AFTER the draft, maybe even AFTER the season plays out.
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Old 04-08-2008   #33
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.
I have no college favorites, being somewhat pragmatic I never buy into the hype of an unproved player. Sometimes I'll buy into the anti-hype, but most often that is because I lothe absolute arguments such as 'Bush is the best player'.

Our Coach and GM can draft and sign whomever they want, I trust that they have a plan and are following it. Whether or not the plan will be a success in regards to the W/L column, I do not know, but having a plan and following it, being consistant, increases the odds of that success.
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Old 04-08-2008   #34
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

For me the point with Kiper is not whether he is right or not but that both guys said the Texans have made progress. To hear anything positive was startling. To me this is the most interesting draft as I have a clearer sense of what Smith and Kubiak can do. Texans have done well recently with lower picks and I'll take a starter in 6th round every year. I don't care how it happened, the team got better.

I don't want a very good player even with a lower round pick attached, if I can get a franchise type player at #18. Williams at LT and Stewart at RB qualify. If I am staring at one of these guys, I don't go Vegas, close my eyes and throw the dice. You lock in a multi- year player at a need spot. I am of the opinion that we will get a 2 from Vikings for Sage. I've been wrong but it is an opinion like the others here. If it looks like Dunta is going to be back around mid-season and it has been said that Cason is the most ready to go CB and could start game one, why not go for him in second round? He is not a burner but speed is not the highest priority in our defense. I don't see him falling that low but some do. With a second round from Minnesota, I'd go Sam Baker LT who should be there and fits the ZBS. I like Godfrey or Chevis Jackson for CB in 3rd and one should be there.

It is the 4th, 5th and 7th rounds I am looking for the Smithiak to do the magic. Trade down or no, I expect to get starters in first and third rounds. When you are 8-8 and pick where we do, to come out of day two with three starters (Myers), that is a pretty good draft.
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Old 04-08-2008   #35
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
This is the phrase I should repeat often, because I am not a BPA guy myself persay. Position has to play a role into it as well.

As always TC your spot on with great vision.
yeah, but we have so few positions that are set in stone, we need to BPA for a few posiion. Outside of WR and QB, we could use upgrades at most positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
You say this but what if your favo guy is at #18 and the team trades down and misses him. Will you freak?

I try to keep an open mind on draft day and work backwards. I have biases I am leaning towards, but I see the picks they chose and try to figure out why they might have chosen a particular guy instead of the Kiper/draft guy way of seeing things. I try not pretend to be expert because I know all I have done with most of the drafted players is read about them and not see them play, and that there is much misinformation out there. Then I watch em play.

People for years have had difficulties figuring out who Denver was going to draft on the offensive side of the ball, particularly with running backs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball, the Texans may make some headscratching picks that they feel fit what they are trying to do. (Owen Daniels?)
You may hear some heartbreak if Mendenhall falls to us. No way he is the pick, and people will freak. People will trade up for him at that spot, and we will jump on it, IF he falls.
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Old 04-08-2008   #36
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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i would not mind a trade down because im still waiting for a ball-hawk at FS. trade down several spots, pick up whatever smith can get us and draft phillips. i think im one of the only people on the boards wanting us to go that direction because alot of people are satisfied with demps.
i remember a few years back i really wanted the texans to trade up for sean taylor. that was a bad draft year for houston IMO. we got dunta, but the only other player still on the roster is earl. (that was the babin draft)
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The real problem with drafts, is BPA is often confused with most popular player available, and BEST is a relative term and subject to criticism. The hype machine tells us each year who the BEST is, but rarely do these guys get it right. I was one of the few people that thought Mario was the BPA, contrary to all the hype. The words "Freak, Phenom, etc usually don't describe the media's top picks. They do however describe a lot of the top players taken in the draft every year. People may not want to admit it, but genetics has a lot to do with athletes. The problem I have this year is I really don't see many of those types of players. That's why I think more picks is better this year, and we can find talent all the way down to round 6. The biggest weakness of our team in my opinion is not running, but stopping the run. I think to address that we need a space-eating DT and tackling machine at SSLB to compliment Ryans and Mario. I unfortunately also believe Kubiak and companies willingness to settle for mediocre safeties will always weaken or ability to stuff the run. I have no idea who we will draft. Like someone else mentioned, I tend to evaluate our effectiveness in the draft AFTER the draft, maybe even AFTER the season plays out.
I am really trying to figure out what the love affair is with Philips. He is not a ball hawking free safety. What he is is a very over rated player from a college program that in the past has had some great ball hawking FS. See Ed Reed, and the late Sean Taylor. Philips had one good season (not great) and last season he played bad. He also had sub par workouts. This guy is just not worth it at all. I will totally eat my crow if I am wrong but I dont think I am. Kenny Philips will absolutely BUST in the NFL. He will never live up to the hype. Unless he gets drafted in the 3rd round he will be over drafted.

Ok now to the space eater. I agree with you but the Texans dont. Jethro Franklin was on 1560 (you can listen to the pod cast) and said as much. He like Travis Johnson and what he brings to the team and the Texans feel that they already have the DT's in place on this team. They want guys that can move sideline to sideline and that are more athletic, not a big fat wall of a man. If they go DT in the draft it's gonna be a smaller DT meaning 300-315 in size not the 350 pound big boys.
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Old 04-08-2008   #37
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

I'm going to go with the Cardinals. A little help on defense and they have a good chance of going to the playoffs given they're in a weak division.
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Old 04-08-2008   #38
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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I'm going to go with the Cardinals. A little help on defense and they have a good chance of going to the playoffs given they're in a weak division.
Never heard such a statement before... Oh, wait, I hear that EVERY year. Im not buying it. Only reason theyt have any chance is because they are in the worst division in the NFL.
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Old 04-08-2008   #39
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
Never heard such a statement before... Oh, wait, I hear that EVERY year. Im not buying it. Only reason theyt have any chance is because they are in the worst division in the NFL.
Which is what I stated, correct?
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Old 04-08-2008   #40
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Default Re: What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Which is what I stated, correct?
Yeah, I was just repeating it. Despite the fact they had an awful year, I still think the Rams are better. They arent nearly as bad as their record showed. I have just been the guy bitten by calling them my sleeper pick, only to watch them win 4 games. Not falling for it again.
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