This is why I love Kubiak and Smith

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by mussop

Any DE that falls to us in the first wouldnt be a "situational pass rusher ". Take a look at the production from the DE spot opposite of Mario and tell me that isnt a spot where we need help. In fact I would rate DE, OT and CB as need # 1, 1a & 1b.

It is well known that Smithiack tend/prefer to go after OL in the later rounds and have already been sucesfull doing just that in their short time here. It is also well known that they like or prefer to go with D in the early rounds. If by some miricle Harvey should fall to #18 I couldnt imagine anyone being rated higher on ou board.

Check this out, even ESPN thinks we can find a gem at DE on the second day. Some of the guys listed in the piece below are from small colleges, but then, so was Jacoby.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...eve&id=3327311

Mississippi State DE Titus Brown

There's no use in sugarcoating it: Brown doesn't have the size or speed teams are looking for in a defensive end. He has limited experience dropping into coverage, something that gives pause to teams looking to make an undersized end into a 3-4 linebacker. The good news for Brown, though, is that he has shown he can get to the quarterback despite his shortcomings, and there aren't many great pass rushers in this class. He is admittedly going to have a difficult time turning the corner at the NFL level, but he has the quickness, relentlessness and upper-body strength, as well as
enough lateral mobility, to develop an effective arsenal of pass rush moves. That might be just enough to make him a fifth-round pick.
Houston might be the ideal place for Brown. The Texans' decision to take DE Mario Williams No. 1 overall pick in 2006 panned out and gave them an elite pass rusher. However, Anthony Weaver lines up opposite Williams and is far better stopping the run than he is rushing the passer, so Houston would do well to add a situational pass rusher. Equally important is the fact that Brown wouldn't face many double teams with Williams and 2007 first-round DT Amobi Okoye drawing so much attention from blockers. The Jets, on the other hand, would not be a good fit for Brown. They just don't have that dominant edge rusher to draw attention away from him and he doesn't have the size they like at outside linebacker.

My viewpoint is that there's no sense in spending 1st day money on a 3rd down rushing specialist. Especially when the money would be better spent, IMHO, on a LT, CB, or RB who will end up starting.

I'll give you that Gibbs sez he can make the 3rd rounder of his choosing work in his system.

Fine.... to paraphrase The Tuna, Gibbs is doin' the cooking, let him pick the groceries. Let him pick his project starting with the 3rd round.

But if I'm gonna spend round one money, and it NOT be a stud LT, then I wanna spend it on a Rogers-Cromartie-kind of CB or a Mendenhall/Steward-quality RB. Like the article sez, DE/OLB pass-rusher types - that would mainly play on 3rd and long - can be found on the second day of the draft.

I think if Keith Rivers falls to us we take him.

[badboy]

I'm thinking with Dline Weaver will be better as healthy and spotlight not on Mario or Okoye this year but on him and TJ. Plus LBs to be better and faster and may see increase of sacks and QB hurries. Also I think our defense of pass will be better with Bennett knowing he is starter and Demps trying to show he can do it for 16. Will have better SS also. Then D will be on field less due to our new ZBS and GREAT rb and new LT. Whew, I need to breathe now.

Not sure why folks keep picking at TJ...

The guy played pretty well last year..

[mussop]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

My viewpoint is that there's no sense in spending 1st day money on a 3rd down rushing specialist. Especially when the money would be better spent, IMHO, on a LT, CB, or RB who will end up starting. .

Again any DE we draft @18 isnt going to be a "3rd down rushing specialist". He is going to be a stud like Harvey. He most likely will be gone anyway but if he did fall he would start right away and would be an every down player for years to come.

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

But if I'm gonna spend round one money, and it NOT be a stud LT, then I wanna spend it on a Rogers-Cromartie-kind of CB or a Mendenhall/Steward-quality RB. Like the article sez, DE/OLB pass-rusher types - that would mainly play on 3rd and long - can be found on the second day of the draft.

Mendenhall and Cromartie most likely will be gone by our pick and what will be left over isnt that much better than what we could get in the 3rd round. The article you are refering to suggest that we get a siuational pass rusher (which is all that will be available in the later rounds) to play behind Weaver. IIRC, Weaver plus said rookies contract would add up to more than what it would cost to get a DE like Harvey @18. Not to mention this is most likely Weavers last year if he even makes it past june 1st. He is paid way to much for his production. If we draft a 3rd down specialist who takes Weavers place after he is gone?

Make no mistake about it DE that doesnt come off the field would have a huge impact for this team and you very rarely find them anywhere but at the top of the draft.

[RipTraxx]

Originally Posted by Polo

I think if Keith Rivers falls to us we take him.

Man i thought i was the only one......

[TK_Gamer]

Here's the problem with "situational" pass rushers, the other teams know when you have your pass rush package in so they work around it, they pass on first down or second down, then wait for your pass rush package and run draws and screens. I like having 2 guys that are in there say 75 percent of the time and let the other team guess when we are bringin the heat. Some guys sneak thru the cracks on the second day, but most of the true edge rushers are first day guys I think.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by RipTraxx

Man i thought i was the only one......

Really I'm sure lots of us would love to have a really good OLB prospect like Rivers, but this LB class this year does not look all that great. Most of the good "LB's" that are coming out are actually defensive ends that are just going to take OLB spots in a 3-4.

Rivers would be a great prospect, but I don't see the Bengals, Bronco's, and other assorted teams passing on him enough to fall.

Other OLB's that I like are also Xavier Adibi and Erin Henderson.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Polo

I think if Keith Rivers falls to us we take him.

Hmmmm... now that's an interesting thought. Another stud to put along side DeMeco. I could live with that. OLB isn't at the top of my list of needs but if he's the best guy on the board when we pick, so be it.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by RipTraxx

Man i thought i was the only one......

Several of us have mentioned it over the past couple of months.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Polo

Not sure why folks keep picking at TJ...

The guy played pretty well last year..

I think saying focus will be on TJ this year is very reasonable. He seemed to respond to the "talk" Kubes had with him. Will he continue to grow or slide back? I think the former. I think many will be watching and hoping that he and Weaver will do well in 08.

Originally Posted by badboy

I think saying focus will be on TJ this year is very reasonable.

Sure it's reasonable. Any individual can choose what they want to focus on. It's even reasonable that the focus will be on Toro. Remember, he's the deep guy wearing number one.....

My question was in regards to those that constantly nag about him...Personally I'm not worried about TJ....I think we're ok there...

From Jethro Franklin's comments he seems to feel the same.

[Rex King]

He gets stick because of his past history and his draft status. Maybe he'll turn out to be a late bloomer, but up to year three he hasn't played like a 1st rounder. Some things, like the fact we gave up 4.4 ypc, 26th in the league, aren't necessarily his fault. Mario aside, we have an undersized front seven. With all the positive comments about TJ as you say, and no talk about needing a DT, I suppose they're going to continue with a they're philosophy of both tackles playing the gaps. Sorry for the digression. I'm just worried about it.