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Old 03-29-2008   #1
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Default Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

..............and not understanding the importance of giving the QB “time,” i.e., a more that average OL? The average QB needs 4.5 seconds to get his pass of..........if it’s short........considerably more for the “bomb.” Our QBs have probably reached the limit of how quickly a QB can release the ball. Certainly, last year was a noticeable improvement........much due to the quicker release and some by improved protection. But, there were still enough plays that we saw requiring our QBs to find their target in less than 2-3 seconds. That short segment of time, even in the WCO, can lead to all sorts of bad outcomes. If you look at the top QBs (eg., Brady and Manning) as well as the top teams, they are blessed with superior OLs. We certainly don’t expect to be one the top teams this year (although stranger things have happened). However, we have an acceptable QB, RB, DL and linebacker situation, with a potentially surprising secondary. We are contemplating decent performance from Olinemen presently on the roster. However, the OL (especially LT position) needs to be solidified prior to the beginning of the regular season if we expect any consistent success. Gibbs will no doubt be architect extroidinaire of the plan, but he will still need a few more pieces........before the season begins............I hope he is given them.
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Old 03-29-2008   #2
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

I just wrote a huge post on my thoughts on the whole team-thingie, and the missing pieces that may or may not lift the entire team. I got into alot of blabber and in the end I realized that no-one would ever read it. DELETE.

So, the short version is, I agree CnD
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Old 03-29-2008   #3
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

Games are won and lost at the line, both sides. Our D line, while needing a bookend to Mario, is in much better shape than the O line. I agree that we need to upgrade the O line. Drafting a LT in the 1st round would make me a very happy camper.
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Old 03-29-2008   #4
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Games are won and lost at the line, both sides. Our D line, while needing a bookend to Mario, is in much better shape than the O line. I agree that we need to upgrade the O line. Drafting a LT in the 1st round would make me a very happy camper.
I don't disagree with any of that; but, look how much better our offense was last year than our D--and that's with AJ out for like 7 games (I think). I wouldn't mind if they got a good, weak-side DE to put more pressure on the QB. I also wouldn't mind having another good corner. LT is great too.

Come to think of it, we could use a good QB....just kidding.
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Old 03-29-2008   #5
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
I don't disagree with any of that; but, look how much better our offense was last year than our D--and that's with AJ out for like 7 games (I think). I wouldn't mind if they got a good, weak-side DE to put more pressure on the QB. I also wouldn't mind having another good corner. LT is great too.

Come to think of it, we could use a good QB....just kidding.
Well, I'm of the opinion that once you have a QB you are happy with, your first round draft choice should always be a lineman (of any flavor). That's probably not very realistic, but it's how I feel.
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Old 03-29-2008   #6
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

The OL is going to be substantially different this season. There are only two pieces of last year's OL that are pretty set in stone--LG Pitts and RT Winston.

New coach Gibbs--upgrade
New C Myers--upgrade
New RG--TBD--Briesel, Studdard, Spencer?
New at some point in the season LT--Salaam turning over too, rookie, Butler, Spencer?

That's quite a bit of change in one year.
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Old 03-29-2008   #7
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
The OL is going to be substantially different this season. There are only two pieces of last year's OL that are pretty set in stone--LG Pitts and RT Winston.

New coach Gibbs--upgrade
New C Myers--upgrade
New RG--TBD--Briesel, Studdard, Spencer?
New at some point in the season LT--Salaam turning over too, rookie, Butler, Spencer?

That's quite a bit of change in one year.

The key I believe for the Texans QB both with timing and with having open receivers is whether opposing teams have to respect the run. Not that some guy will just be able to fall forward 3 yards. But that if they cheat to cover pass, they will be burnt by the run.

This will help with the pass rush and getting receivers a bit more open.

Hopefully the run with improve with a collection of running backs who are a joke and with the coaching that Gibbs is doing up front. Having a consistent philosophy instead of the GB/Denver marriage that just wasn't working.
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Old 03-29-2008   #8
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
The key I believe for the Texans QB both with timing and with having open receivers is whether opposing teams have to respect the run. Not that some guy will just be able to fall forward 3 yards. But that if they cheat to cover pass, they will be burnt by the run.

This will help with the pass rush and getting receivers a bit more open.

Hopefully the run with improve with a collection of running backs who are a joke and with the coaching that Gibbs is doing up front. Having a consistent philosophy instead of the GB/Denver marriage that just wasn't working.

Absolutely. The Texans are counting on reaping the benefits of a vastly improved running game. If we get what is expected out of our running game (and I've seen nothing to make me believe that we won't) then that will "on average" I think throw the equivalent of an additional second to our QB on passing plays. From there it's just going to get better I believe.
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Old 03-29-2008   #9
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
The key I believe for the Texans QB both with timing and with having open receivers is whether opposing teams have to respect the run. Not that some guy will just be able to fall forward 3 yards. But that if they cheat to cover pass, they will be burnt by the run.
Yup. That was subsumed within adding Gibbs in my post but it is much better explicitly stated.
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Old 03-29-2008   #10
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

The reason that the focus on the QB is that w/o a good one, a team will not have substained success. There are cases where a team has gotten by with a mediocore guy, but have dropped shortly thereafter.

Ironically, the QBs mentioned originally make the OL as much as the OL makes them. Both Manning and Brady are outstanding at reading the defense and getting the ball to the proper spot quickly. Neither is a runner, but both have excellent in the pocket footwork and don't take sacks needlessly.

While the Patriots and Indy have good ( not superior imo)OL lines, they don't line-up a just dominate people, nor contain high first round picks. Smart, techinical guys who work well within the system and with their QB. In short, the sum of the parts are better the individual players.

Also, not sure about 4.5 seconds number, but I doubt any QB in the league regularly gets that amount of time. I am sure some geek site like footballoutsiders may have the average time per pass, I doubt its anywhere near that.
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Old 03-29-2008   #11
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

in all honesty the focus on LT could be unwaranted. I think a large number of hits and sacks last year came from the C/RG assignments. With the pickups we've made so far on the O-line, the resulting shuffle by Gibbs could go a long way towards shoring up that problem area. Don't get me wrong , Salaam had plenty of blowouts too, but it wasn't all on his side.
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Old 03-29-2008   #12
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Also, not sure about 4.5 seconds number, but I doubt any QB in the league regularly gets that amount of time. I am sure some geek site like footballoutsiders may have the average time per pass, I doubt its anywhere near that.
You are correct. 90+% of NFL passes are out in 3 seconds or less.
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Old 03-29-2008   #13
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Absolutely. The Texans are counting on reaping the benefits of a vastly improved running game. If we get what is expected out of our running game (and I've seen nothing to make me believe that we won't) then that will "on average" I think throw the equivalent of an additional second to our QB on passing plays. From there it's just going to get better I believe.
I agree, and I too believe we are "on track." But even a great RB can be diminished by a compromised OL.
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Old 03-29-2008   #14
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
You are correct. 90+% of NFL passes are out in 3 seconds or less.
Exactly. We used to have this argument with folks who accused our O-line of not giving the departed one enough time to throw. I started timing QBs (DVRs are sooo wonderful) and from snap to release the average time is 2.5 to 3.5 seconds. If a QB gets more time than that either he's scrambling or the defense is only rushing 3 guys.

Also, as Arlington said, the biggest part of getting rid of the ball in a timely fashion is the QB's ability to make a pre-snap read. If the QB has an idea who's going to be open - or at least who'll be single covered - before the ball is snapped, then the chances of the play being successful goes waaay up.
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Old 03-29-2008   #15
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

LT is what we should be focussed on.
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Old 03-29-2008   #16
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK_Gamer View Post
in all honesty the focus on LT could be unwaranted. I think a large number of hits and sacks last year came from the C/RG assignments.
10 of 22 sacks last year came from LT with 2 not assigned to anyone on the OL. That's 50% on LT. That doesn't mean there isn't any concern on C/G since the more room they give, the more room the QB has to work with while the T's handle the edge rushers, but age and quality dictate LT is a top concern to find a long term solution.
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Old 03-29-2008   #17
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

I would be interested to see the location the "hit on throw/after throw" came from. they probably don't record that info though.
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Old 03-29-2008   #18
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

I think the upgrade at center was a critical piece of the puzzle. I'm interested in who is going to handle RG this year with RT,LG,C and I'm going to assume Salaam is going to start at LT at least to begin the year.

I hope Williams drops to us and we see some surprise picks ahead of us. Draft is now less then a month away and I think there are still a few pro days left.

One guy I haven't heard anything about anymore is Sam Baker. Has he dropped of the radar that much?
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Old 03-29-2008   #19
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

Any offensive weapon is needed

AJ is still basically the whole offense, with Davis being a one year wonder

RB/WR/TE any of these would be great.

Take Stewart or Jones in the 1st, and hope Manningham falls to the 3rd

TE's like Bennet or Finley could be sitting there in the 4th/5th, and would be a good combo with Daniels
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Old 03-29-2008   #20
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Default Re: Are we too concentrated on the QB position?.......

I believe that Gibbs should be able to utilize a 3rd-6th round OL in the ZBS so that it would be as effective as a 1st or 2nd round OL in a typical OL scheme. That being said, I wouldn't take an OL in the first unless we knew that player would be as effective for us as Larry Allen was for the Cowboys who was a 2nd rounder when they picked him. Of course if we knew who each Pro Bowler in the draft was I'd take them all too.
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