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Old 03-21-2008   #21
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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This should help.
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Old 03-21-2008   #22
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Younger, better stats....

Gray had about the same number of TDs, if we even up the playing time, and fewer INTs then Sage. So are you going to say the Gray is younger and has better stats Sage, once again if we extended Grays stats out to give them an egual amount of attempts? And lets not teven mention that Gray was throwing to a hugely inferior recieving corps then Sage was. And since we seem to be conviently forgetting stuff, let's jsut drop the 4 INTs that Sage threw against the Titans. Sage is nothing more then a journeyman back-up, if some team has it in their head that he can start and offers a draft pick for him the idea of not pulling the trigger is ludicris to me.

For Heaven's sake people, Sage failed to bet out Carr his first season here. And I promise you he will not beat out Schaub for the starting spot.
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Old 03-21-2008   #23
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Okay, good point. But, you didn't answer any of my questions.
I didn't answer any of the Schaub questions specifically, because they're not relevant to the question you posed in the title. There's no possibility of Schaub being traded. So it doesn't matter what his trade value is. Sage could be traded because a) he's not the starter, and b) he has a very tradable contract.
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Old 03-21-2008   #24
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Are you looking strictly at production when comparing Matt and Sage ?

If Sage was such a beast he should have clearly out shown Matt in the time he was afforded. IMO he didn't.

Sage has been with the team longer, has played in the system longer and is the more "experienced" player. He also can play without the pressure of knowing that he's been paid to be "the man" .

Don't you think that Matt will have grown a bit from year one to year two ? Or are you assuming that'll he'll still be on a Sage type playing level ?

Give the guy a little time. He's the best QB on our roster.
"Are you looking strictly at production when comparing Matt and Sage ?" No.

"Sage has been with the team longer, has played in the system longer and is the more "experienced" player. He also can play without the pressure of knowing that he's been paid to be "the man" ." Are you saying that Matt can't handle being "the man"?

"Don't you think that Matt will have grown a bit from year one to year two ? Or are you assuming that'll he'll still be on a Sage type playing level ?" Until proven otherwise, that is what I'm assuming.

"Give the guy a little time. He's the best QB on our roster." Perhaps, but not by much & so far he's much less durable.

I didn't say Sage was a beast .... just that they were/are comparable. You didn't answer any of my questions.

Last edited by infantrycak; 03-21-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 03-21-2008   #25
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Of course. Absolutely ! No doubt about it.
Listen son, I've got some property I want to show east of here a ways. Actually its in Louisiana. It's a little swappy, and you gotta be careful that the 'gators don't bite you. But here's the deal, its prime Real Estate, but I'm gonna let you have it at a bargain-basement price !
Son? LOL!

Okay, if his trade value is still as high and he's not THAT much better than Sage, then why not trade him instead of Sage? Can we not use the picks?
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Old 03-21-2008   #26
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post


Geez--there aren't enough smilies for this thread.
QFT.......

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Old 03-21-2008   #27
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

Why the hell would you want to trade Schaub in the first place?
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Old 03-21-2008   #28
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post

I'm about to stop entering any thread that has either Matt Schaub or Sage Rosenfels in the title.
That would probably be a good thing!

And this isn't a Matt vs. Sage who should start thread. This is about getting the most value for our team to build on. If Matt and Sage are about equal, why not trade the one that gives us more picks to fill out our team with.

You didn't answer any of my questions.
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Old 03-21-2008   #29
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Why the hell would you want to trade Schaub in the first place?
Especially since David Carr is no longer available.....
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Old 03-21-2008   #30
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack View Post
If we trade Sage away, Quinn would be a good backup. But hell to the no on trading Matt. That would be dumb. And honestly, I would sign Gray and have him and Sage battle it out for the number two position.
Okay, I understand your thoughts. What has Matt done to make him SO much more valuable than Sage?
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Old 03-21-2008   #31
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Younger, better stats....
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Huh?
If he is such a good prospect why is it that the Vikings are looking to give us a third for Sage when Gray is a FA? Because he has more value than Gray.

Better stats?

You mean like completion % and YPA or maybe you are referring to the huge differance in rating 84.5 to 85.6, I mean what is the differance in 1%?

Oh and he is one year younger than Sage and two years older than Matt. Of course this will just go in one ear and out the other.


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Old 03-21-2008   #32
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post

Gray had about the same number of TDs, if we even up the playing time, and fewer INTs then Sage. So are you going to say the Gray is younger and has better stats Sage, once again if we extended Grays stats out to give them an egual amount of attempts? And lets not teven mention that Gray was throwing to a hugely inferior recieving corps then Sage was. And since we seem to be conviently forgetting stuff, let's jsut drop the 4 INTs that Sage threw against the Titans. Sage is nothing more then a journeyman back-up, if some team has it in their head that he can start and offers a draft pick for him the idea of not pulling the trigger is ludicris to me.

For Heaven's sake people, Sage failed to bet out Carr his first season here. And I promise you he will not beat out Schaub for the starting spot.
Sage has NEVER been given the opportunity to beat out Carr or Schaub. Carr & Schaub were both ordained starters and never had to compete for their jobs.

What makes you think Schaub is anything more than a journeyman backup? What has he done to prove otherwise?

You say Gray was throwing to inferior receivers and that is one reason why I think he may be a better long term QB solution than Matt or Sage. Also, his TD to INT ratio is much better. So, our 2 QBs have proven to be pretty equal so far, why not trade the QB that we can get the most picks for and improve our team in more places.
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Old 03-21-2008   #33
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
That would probably be a good thing!

And this isn't a Matt vs. Sage who should start thread. This is about getting the most value for our team to build on. If Matt and Sage are about equal, why not trade the one that gives us more picks to fill out our team with.

You didn't answer any of my questions.
As would you decieding to stop bringing this up.

I did answer your questions, specificly the "What say you?" one. As for the rest.

Quote:
Do you think Matt's trade value today is as high as what we gave for him?
Yes. Everybody knew that he was going to need some legit playing time to figure things out. His injury issues are not that concering as both came from unusal hits (haynesworth and the blind side in SD).

Quote:
Would you still make that trade today?
Yes. If we had not made the trade we would have more then likely been forced to use anoter high 1st round pick on a QB, something that I once thought would always be a good idea, and now I'm not so sure.

Quote:
What other teams in the NFL would Matt start for today?
Minnesota
Miami
Atlanta
Chicago (if their FO had the brain cells to realize that their Qbs all suck)
KC
Baltimore
Maybe Buffalo
He would also be in the competition in San Fransico


Fell better.
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Old 03-21-2008   #34
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
If he is such a good prospect why is it that the Vikings are looking to give us a third for Sage when Gray is a FA? Because he has more value than Gray.

Better stats?

You mean like completion % and YPA or maybe you are referring to the huge differance in rating 84.5 to 85.6, I mean what is the differance in 1%?

Oh and he is one year younger than Sage and two years older than Matt. Of course this will just go in one ear and out the other.


One day I will learn ......
As I understand it, Gray is a FA and can sign anywhere, Sage has to be traded.

Look at TD to INT ratio.

I didn't think he was older than Matt, so that's a good point, except that QBs often aren't in their prime until they're 30 anyways.
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Old 03-21-2008   #35
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
This is about getting the most value for our team to build on. If Matt and Sage are about equal, why not trade the one that gives us more picks to fill out our team with.
Seems to me Kubiak and Smith feel Schaub is our franchise Quarterback. They aren't going to trade him away just because he can get us more picks. They are building up our team, one way IS to trade for more draft picks- but not your starting QB. Schaub is QB, Sage is our Backup- that's not going to change.
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Old 03-21-2008   #36
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post

Minnesota
Miami
Atlanta
Chicago (if their FO had the brain cells to realize that their Qbs all suck)
KC
Baltimore
Maybe Buffalo
He would also be in the competition in San Fransico


Fell better.
Minnesota: He could probably beat out T. Jackson but, it might be closer than you think because Jackson is really growing into the position. Here, I say he probably would start.

Miami: Yes, I agree.

Atlanta: Yes, I agree.

Chicago: Yes, I agree.

KC: Yes, I agree.

Baltimore: I think he would have a hard time beating out Kyle Boller and Troy Smith looked pretty good at the end of the year, too. So, I'm gonna say doubtful here.

Buffalo: Maybe.

So, of all the teams in the NFL, he MIGHT start for 5, all of whom are bad teams. Does that give you confidence that he's our QB of the future?
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Old 03-21-2008   #37
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

Sage is Gifford Neilson/Commander Cody/Frank Reich.....a guy that is good enough to step in short term but not good enough to play at a high level for the long haul (obviously imo of course). He is the equivalent of a 4th pitcher in a MLB rotation that can give you a lot of innings but he isn't good enough to be your number one starter.
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Old 03-21-2008   #38
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
Seems to me Kubiak and Smith feel Schaub is our franchise Quarterback. They aren't going to trade him away just because he can get us more picks. They are building up our team, one way IS to trade for more draft picks- but not your starting QB. Schaub is QB, Sage is our Backup- that's not going to change.
I don't disagree with you but, I think that's a problem. Not that Schaub is our starter but, that he was ORDAINED the starter without having to compete for the job. What has he done to be called a "franchise" QB?

My other point is that, if our 2 QBs are pretty similar in capability (which stats and victories show they are) and neither one is a proven starter, and neither one may really be our QB of the future, why not trade the one who has more value?
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Old 03-21-2008   #39
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Sage is Gifford Neilson/Commander Cody/Frank Reich.....a guy that is good enough to step in short term but not good enough to play at a high level for the long haul (obviously imo of course). He is the equivalent of a 4th pitcher in a MLB rotation that can give you a lot of innings but he isn't good enough to be your number one starter.
And Schaub has PROVEN that he is not "Gifford Neilson/Commander Cody/Frank Reich.....a guy that is good enough to step in short term but not good enough to play at a high level for the long haul"?? Actually, that argument fits Schaub much more at this point because of his durability issues.
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Old 03-21-2008   #40
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Default Re: Trade Sage or Matt?

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Minnesota: He could probably beat out T. Jackson but, it might be closer than you think because Jackson is really growing into the position. Here, I say he probably would start.

Miami: Yes, I agree.

Atlanta: Yes, I agree.

Chicago: Yes, I agree.

KC: Yes, I agree.

Baltimore: I think he would have a hard time beating out Kyle Boller and Troy Smith looked pretty good at the end of the year, too. So, I'm gonna say doubtful here.

Buffalo: Maybe.

So, of all the teams in the NFL, he MIGHT start for 5, all of whom are bad teams. Does that give you confidence that he's our QB of the future?
Frankly, I think there are more teams than that. In addition to the teams above (and I think he would win the Ravens job), I think that in an open competition he would win the starting job for the Jets, Titans, possibly Broncos, Raiders, Redskins, Lions, probably Packers, Panthers, possibly Buccaneers, and Cardinals. There are some other jobs that he might be able to win as well (Jaguars, Browns, Chargers) even though the QB's are pretty set in their job. Hell, at this point, I think I'd take him over Eli Manning.

But most of these teams are too tied to their current starter to really open up that competition.

But that's my opinion on how good Matt is. You obviously don't agree. Especially if you don't think he'd win the Baltimore job outright. I don't think it would even be a competition.
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