What is Sage's value?--Sage Frustrated

Originally Posted by J-Russ

What do they have in common, they were/is stars in the making, for JJ and CS before injury. Solid starters with high ceilings.

He was one of 4 starting rookies, how did the other rookies turned out? Well, you already know the answer to that. and he was going down that road too. He had a very high ceiling, and very highly thought off by Kubs & Sherman.

One of four starting rookies on a team filled with sub-par talent.

What-an-accomplishment./sarcasm In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.


Getting too far off course. Those guys haven't proven to be more valuable than Sage.

A possible third rounder may or may not be more help than Sage. We know we have a guy that can win us games at the QB position. That's a pretty valuable asset to trade away based on what we may or may not get in return from a third rounder. I have faith in the Texans' scouting dept. too, but unless it's headed by Jesus Christ himslelf I'm not gonna assume that everything they lay their hands on is guranteed to be a sure fire success.

[GP]

My, my, my...

So many "We need him" posts. "Don't do anything for less than a 2nd rounder!!!!" You guys would have sold him for a 5th before this past season.

Why so many posters so cautious about this deal? Because you know Schaub is always one hit away from looking like a pile of fallen Jenga blocks. Again.

Sage looked great. Schaub looked great...on the bench, shaking the cobwebs off and wearing a cap. Forget the stats. Sage was on his feet, smiling and waving at the fans after wins. Schaub was hobbling and unable to continue. But I know, I know...spare me the hate mail...Schaub was hit "worse" and in just the right spots to be seriously hurt. And I'm a turrd for saying so. I got it.

(Man, it feels good to post on this topic again)

[GlassHalfFull]

Originally Posted by GP

My, my, my...

So many "We need him" posts. "Don't do anything for less than a 2nd rounder!!!!" You guys would have sold him for a 5th before this past season.

Why so many posters so cautious about this deal? Because you know Schaub is always one hit away from looking like a pile of fallen Jenga blocks. Again.

Sage looked great. Schaub looked great...on the bench, shaking the cobwebs off and wearing a cap. Forget the stats. Sage was on his feet, smiling and waving at the fans after wins. Schaub was hobbling and unable to continue. But I know, I know...spare me the hate mail...Schaub was hit "worse" and in just the right spots to be seriously hurt. And I'm a turrd for saying so. I got it.

(Man, it feels good to post on this topic again)

There is a reason you are in the witness protection program.

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by Polo

So you knew the Gianst were legit Super Bowl contenders all along ? Because of the late rd. talent they had drafted?

I'm pretty sure you just knew the Pats would fall short because of stockpiling on WR's via free agency instead of through the draft.

riiiight.

I'm glad you simplified the game of football down to such an exact science. Draft late, trade high. Someone get on the phone with Texan management and coaching staff pronto!!!

I don't get these set rules when it comes to football. I think every situation needs to be evaluated by it self.

Your are totally missing the point.

When you look at the Giants roster that played in the Super Bowl, you will see that their later round draft picks over the past several year made serious impacts in that game. The Giants GM looks like a genius now.

Keeping Sage or trading Sage isn't going to make the Texans a playoff team. Hopefully we can agree on that.

How the Texans draft in the later rounds make the team. It's the same for every team in the NFL.

If the biggest roster decision for the Texans is keeping or trading Sage, that means the roster has some serious holes.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

riiiiiiiight.. except those little tell-tale signs of them saying 'matt is our starting qb' or kubiak saying at the end of last year 'sage can/wants (not sure which) be a starter somewhere in this league'= not a ringing endorsement

Chronicle Feb 23

Despite the difference in pay, [Rick] Smith said the team won't hesitate to start Rosenfels if he outplays Schaub this season.

[Hervoyel]

For a 2nd round pick I make this deal. It's admittedly a leap of faith but then sometimes you need to do that in order to climb the ladder in this league. Sage also would very much like to be an NFL starter and so I'm sure he's interested in a deal like this.

It's one of those deals where you're going to either be a genius or a scapegoat when it's over. The Texans have hitched their cart to Schaub and I can understand if they decide to move Sage while he's got value.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull

There is a reason you are in the witness protection program.

Indeed. I wouldn't have seen his post if you hadn't quoted him. This subject is the whole reason why I have GP on my ignore list (along with a few others).

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by GP

My, my, my...

So many "We need him" posts. "Don't do anything for less than a 2nd rounder!!!!" You guys would have sold him for a 5th before this past season.

Why so many posters so cautious about this deal? Because you know Schaub is always one hit away from looking like a pile of fallen Jenga blocks. Again.

Sage looked great. Schaub looked great...on the bench, shaking the cobwebs off and wearing a cap. Forget the stats. Sage was on his feet, smiling and waving at the fans after wins. Schaub was hobbling and unable to continue. But I know, I know...spare me the hate mail...Schaub was hit "worse" and in just the right spots to be seriously hurt. And I'm a turrd for saying so. I got it.

(Man, it feels good to post on this topic again)

I just have a hard time saying either one of them played great. Sage played ok. Schaub played ok. Sage did it with Andre and against bad teams. Schaub did it without Andre (well that's not true.. Schaub convinced us we had answered the 2nd/3rd WR questions by making Davis look like a star). Sage also had an entire year in this offense. Schaub didn't. Depth in this league is a luxury, no doubt. But I for one would rather have the Luxury of having a better OL or DB or OL or RB STARTING than the luxury of having a top 5 backup. Maybe if our OL was a little better we wouldn't have seen so much of Sage.

Mike

[Texanmike02]

double post

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Chronicle Feb 23

and thats a clear signs they have doubts in schaub? sounds more like typical GM speak

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

and thats a clear signs they have doubts in schaub? sounds more like typical GM speak

My shoulder's fine, I'll be out there starting by the time the season begins

Tony Boselli

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Tony Boselli

indeed..

tony bosselli saying that is all the proof i need that rick smith is just playing reverse psychology on the sage/schaub situation

[PHAROAH]

I say do in a heartbeat and draft a guy like Dennis Dixon or John D. Booty in the 5th Round to develop.

[AnthonyE]

Originally Posted by PHAROAH

I say do in a heartbeat and draft a guy like Dennis Dixon or John D. Booty in the 5th Round to develop.

I wouldn't mind either of them at all.

[Texans Pride]

Well according to this site, via Pro Football Talk, the deal between the Vikings and the Texans is dead for now.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/story/2008/2/28/214813/572

Pro Football Talk is reporting that the trade talks between the Beloved Purple and the Houston Texans involving QB Sage Rosenfels are officially off. Houston wanted a second round pick in exchange for Rosenfels, and the Vikings wanted to give up a third. Neither team would budge, so there's no deal as of now.

[GP]

Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull

There is a reason you are in the witness protection program.

LOL.

I still cannot figure out why people won't let go of Schaub. He's slow getting away from the center, slow to react to pressure, and is fragile. It was a nice attempt to upgrade the QB position. I liked it when it went down in the offseason, but the herd is once again refusing to see the obvious: The anointed QB has no clothes.

All I know is that Sage is still standing, still smiling, and he did it with an even MORE banged up oline than what Schaub had. The depths that people have gone to, to save face for the Schaub deal and maintain that "all is well," is amazing. I don't know that Sage is THE starter...but he's the same QB as Schaub, except he somehow stays upright more often. Advantage: Sage. Look, this is less about how much you guys think i looooover Sage. And it's more about how much I think Schaub is NOT our starting QB for much longer (mostly due to his enormous injured-to-playing QB ratio). Sage outside of Kubiaks system (in Minnesota, for example) probably flounders BIG TIME.

Schaub looks awesome when everything is perfect. He reads a defense better, he has a stronger arm and better placement. But I defy you to show me where the NFL provides QBs with a sterile and safe environment for the majority of QBs (not named Brady or Manning). People need to dis-associate themselves for a second and recognize that Schaub DOES have some faults that have hurt him. It really is true, guys. Just sayin'....

[texasguy346]

I believe we're scheduled to play the Vikings this year on the road so if a deal for Sage were to happen that could prove to be an interesting matchup. That being said I wouldn't trade Sage for a 3rd rounder. Didn't AJ Feeley go for more than that? If the Vikings were to offer a 2nd round pick then I'd be more open to the idea.

[Ole Miss Texan]

This was rather interesting...

I think all things equal, trade Sage for a 3rd rounder would be great. However, unfortunately things really aren't that great in Houston currently.

1. Matt Schaub has been injured- he has the potential and shows us flashes of being a great great QB in this league but unfortunately got injured twice last season, had shoulder surgery during the offseason and he is somewhat of an unknown (only plus was it was his non-throwing shoulder).

2. On top of that, Houston doesn't have a formidable Offensive Line yet. I'd feel more comfortable putting all our eggs in the Schaub basket if our offensive line was already solid but it's far from it.

3. Then throw in the fact that we really don't know what our RB situation is and don't have a reliable running back the consistently hand the ball off to. We really don't even know who our RBs are gonna be next season.

Because of our current situation, I don't see how we can gamble that much in trading Sage away. I think Smith did a smart thing. If our OL was solid and we had a solid RB to hand the ball off to, I'd do it for a 3rd... but we don't.

[Texanmike02]

This was kind of a parallel discussion in a different thread but figured I'd pull this part out and put it in here too:

Just for reference:
98.9% Chargers
98.7% Patriots
93.9% Steelers
93.4% Colts
82.3% Jaguars
69.5% Titans

These are the % of snaps taken by their Starting QB. The Titans are really an exception because they don't rely on their QB to win games. VY is IMHO almost a hinderance because of his style of play. In this league (and yes I will be doing more analysis of this) if you have you don't have consistency at the QB position you're not going to win many games.

60 different QB's started a game last year.

In fact here are the QB's to start every game for their team last season:

Hasslebeck 10
P Manning 13
E Manning 10
Farve 13
Kitna 7
Cutler 7
Romo 13
Palmer 7
Brady 16
Rivers 11
Brees 7

If you're counting, that's an average of 10.4 wins.

If you didn't have your QB start every game.... you won an average of 6.1 games. That's why I'm not so worried about a backup QB. Rather than worrying about who the backup is we need to worry about getting a quality guy and standing him upright and keeping him in there for the Majority of the year.

Mike

[RagingBull]

The history of Texans 2's and 3's"

2002:
2 Jabar Gaffney Florida
2 Chester Pitts San Diego State
3 Fred Weary Tennessee
3 Charles Hill Maryland
2003:
2 Tony Hollings Georgia Tech suplapmental
2 Ben Joppru Michigan
3 Antwan Peek Cincinnati
3 Seth Wand Northwest Missouri State
2004:
No 2nd or 3rds
2005:
3 Vernand Morency Oklahoma State
2006:
2 DeMeco Ryans Alabama
3 Charles Spencer Pittsburgh
2007:
3 Jones Jacoby Lane

The only guy on that list that is more valuable than Sage is Demeco. Had Spencer stayed healthy, then maybe he would also be more valuable than Sage.

That means they have had at best 2 players more valuable than Sage out of 12 total 2nd and 3rd round picks. So there is a 1 in 6 chance we get someone better. Sounds like a bad deal to me.