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Old 03-02-2008   #381
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Man, I hope you folks don't vote the same way you give Kubes and Smith carte blanche on everything they do. These boards are for us to express our opinions and ideas and, if they are sometimes contrary to the coach and GM, that should be okay.

After last season, I'm more optomistic about what the coach and GM have done but, I refuse to give them a carte blanche stamp of approval just because "they say so".

Well we are fans with opinions. They are guys with years of experience evaluating talent and who sit at practices and the full off-season seeing things we don't see. Obviously from past regimes you don't give people carte blanche but so far there is nothing to say that their decisions have not only been solid but pretty good. Considering Kubes work with QBs, I'll let him tell me what he thinks compared to you and GP. Plus the numbers, age. etc bear out that Schaub has the larger upside.
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Old 03-02-2008   #382
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Considering Kubes work with QBs, I'll let him tell me what he thinks compared to you and GP. Plus the numbers, age. etc bear out that Schaub has the larger upside.
Exactly.
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Old 03-02-2008   #383
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
I have to come to GP's defense here. I agree that we have 2 BACKUP QB's and everyone who insists that Schaub is the starter because ..... why? ..... some anaylst somewhere says he has potential? ........

I also don't see Rich Gannon, Matt Hasselbeck or Derek Anderson, or even Tavarius Jackson in Matt Schaub.

The point GP and I are making is that there should be open and fair competition for the QB spot because neither has stepped up and earned it. Schaub was annointed the starter and looked good at times and not so good at times. Sage came in and performed well in Schaub's absence but, also had some rough times.

NEITHER HAS EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE ORDAINED THE STARTER FOR THIS TEAM OR ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE AND THEREFORE THEY SHOULD HAVE TO COMPETE FOR THE POSITION.

That's all .... it's simple.
:music:

We don't have two backups. We have one starter. Matt Schaub. One Backup. Sage Rosenfels.

How come neither of you two have even stopped for moment to consider his stints in DC and Miami? Where he was a starter.

Let's think about it this way guys. In Free Agency when you go target a guy you feel is a viable long or short term solution. Do you say well it's pending on you winning the spot in TC through competition. No you've hand selected the guy because you feel head and shoulders above he's better then what you have.

We paid two second rounders; Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith have invested quite a bit in his future. No one here is saying he's untouchable but based on both QB's performances I saw a higher ceiling in Schaub and one QB ,Sage, who has reached his ceiling already. IMO that's the biggest difference.

Be ready to be disapointed when Sage can't beat Schaub out in TC. You two should consider careers in sports Journalism cause right now you two are pretty good at manufacturing controversy.
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Old 03-02-2008   #384
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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The teams that succeed are the teams that have 2 QB's - except this years SB teams? I'm in 100% agreement with your first sentence. After that, you kind of appear to have driven off a cliff.
What I was trying to say is that 2 QBs are valuable. If the Giants or Pats had the same kind of luck with their starter that the Texans had (i.e. Scaub - the starter - going down in the middle of the season), they would not have ended up in the Super Bowl. Injuries are a big part of this game, and you can't count on making it through the season as a QB without missing some games for injuries. The Pats and Giants were very fortunate (and lucky). Without a valuable backup, you are playing Russian Roulette.
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Old 03-02-2008   #385
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
Last year the team was desperate for a QB who would come in take the bull by the horns and at the same time give the fans some hope .

Sage and a rookie QB would'nt have changed our loser culture as much as Schaub and Sage did . From that standpoint alone Schaub has been a success .
Don't disagree with ya at all.
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Old 03-02-2008   #386
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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What I was trying to say is that 2 QBs are valuable. If the Giants or Pats had the same kind of luck with their starter that the Texans had (i.e. Scaub - the starter - going down in the middle of the season), they would not have ended up in the Super Bowl. Injuries are a big part of this game, and you can't count on making it through the season as a QB without missing some games for injuries. The Pats and Giants were very fortunate (and lucky). Without a valuable backup, you are playing Russian Roulette.
I see your point but if a team is going to get into the playoffs, they almost always have to do that with healthy starting QB for the entire season. Look at the playoff teams this season: Giants, Colts, Patriots, Cowboys, Jags, Chargers, Redskins, Steelers, Seahawks, Titans, Bucs

Of those how many relied on a strong backup during the course of the season? Skins, Titans, Jags

We're a team on the rise but there are still some huge holes, something that no one can deny. I really think that over the course of a season, Rosenfels would not be able to get us into the playoffs. Obviously Schaub as he played last year wouldn't either but I think he has that potential. You've got to gamble here because we could snag a starter with a 2-3 round pick and hope to god that Schaub doesn't get injured.
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Old 03-02-2008   #387
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Be ready to be disapointed when Sage can't beat Schaub out in TC. You two should consider careers in sports Journalism cause right now you two are pretty good at manufacturing controversy.
Actually, I wouldn't be disappointed at all, if there really is a competition and he wins it, then he is the best man for the job.
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Old 03-02-2008   #388
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Rosenfels for Chester Taylor. Git'R Done.
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Old 03-02-2008   #389
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Rosenfels for Chester Taylor. Git'R Done.
I second this. I would definitely make this deal.
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Old 03-02-2008   #390
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

How did this thread make it 20 pages, geeez, and so quickly....
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Old 03-02-2008   #391
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
We don't have two backups. We have one starter. Matt Schaub. One Backup. Sage Rosenfels.

How come neither of you two have even stopped for moment to consider his stints in DC and Miami? Where he was a starter.

Let's think about it this way guys. In Free Agency when you go target a guy you feel is a viable long or short term solution. Do you say well it's pending on you winning the spot in TC through competition. No you've hand selected the guy because you feel head and shoulders above he's better then what you have.

We paid two second rounders; Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith have invested quite a bit in his future. No one here is saying he's untouchable but based on both QB's performances I saw a higher ceiling in Schaub and one QB ,Sage, who has reached his ceiling already. IMO that's the biggest difference.

Be ready to be disapointed when Sage can't beat Schaub out in TC. You two should consider careers in sports Journalism cause right now you two are pretty good at manufacturing controversy.
Because, for whatever reason, he is doing fairly well in THIS system on THIS team. Look, I don't think Sage goes to the Vikings (or any other team, for that matter) and does as well as he does here. OK? He's settled into Kubiak's system well, has somehow been able to make this offense feel confident (in spite of the questionable playcalling) and yet the guy is just a stinkin' dirt bag backup to you guys. Sage has feelings, too. LOL.

Sage (to me) has earned the right to compete for the job.

Schaub has flaws that are going to continue to get him hammered. I don't wish it upon him, but it doesn't look promising that Schaub gets much further down the road here...and is still standing.
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Old 03-02-2008   #392
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Because, for whatever reason, he is doing fairly well in THIS system on THIS team. Look, I don't think Sage goes to the Vikings (or any other team, for that matter) and does as well as he does here. OK? He's settled into Kubiak's system well, has somehow been able to make this offense feel confident (in spite of the questionable playcalling) and yet the guy is just a stinkin' dirt bag backup to you guys. Sage has feelings, too. LOL.

Sage (to me) has earned the right to compete for the job.

Schaub has flaws that are going to continue to get him hammered. I don't wish it upon him, but it doesn't look promising that Schaub gets much further down the road here...and is still standing.
Such a positive attitude towards the team.

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Old 03-02-2008   #393
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Because, for whatever reason, he is doing fairly well in THIS system on THIS team. Look, I don't think Sage goes to the Vikings (or any other team, for that matter) and does as well as he does here. OK? He's settled into Kubiak's system well, has somehow been able to make this offense feel confident (in spite of the questionable playcalling) and yet the guy is just a stinkin' dirt bag backup to you guys. Sage has feelings, too. LOL.

Sage (to me) has earned the right to compete for the job.

Schaub has flaws that are going to continue to get him hammered. I don't wish it upon him, but it doesn't look promising that Schaub gets much further down the road here...and is still standing.
The thing that I've heard the most is Sage gets back quicker and not as deep on his dropbacks .
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Old 03-02-2008   #394
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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What I was trying to say is that 2 QBs are valuable. If the Giants or Pats had the same kind of luck with their starter that the Texans had (i.e. Scaub - the starter - going down in the middle of the season), they would not have ended up in the Super Bowl. Injuries are a big part of this game, and you can't count on making it through the season as a QB without missing some games for injuries. The Pats and Giants were very fortunate (and lucky). Without a valuable backup, you are playing Russian Roulette.
If the Giants Pats Colts or just about any team in that class loses their QB for significant time. They are done. They don't "count on being lucky" they have good O lines, protect the QB. That's what I don't understand. If the offensive identity of this team is going to be built around the passing game then a Sage isn't going to get it done. Yeah he's going to keep you from getting embarassed in a game but at the end of the day, that's not what this team is trying to do. Go get a worthy starter and play like there is no other option at QB. When a guy takes a cheapshot at your QB like the Chargers did... you hit em back.

I hope this team is headed for greatness. I hope they are headed for a place where their backup QB can't do it. That's why I'm so ready to pull the trigger on the deal. If Schaub is the real deal... then Sage won't cut it. If he's not then we're going to need the pick to build with anyways. The only thing I know is that Sage isn't good enough to start for this team. If this team is good enough to go anywhere, sage won't take us there if he has to play extended time. The value of what a 2nd or 3rd round pick... especially in this OL and RB rich draft is to me more than that of a backup QB for 1 year.

Tell me this. Do you think that Sage could fill in for the Pats, Giants, Colts, or any team with serous playoff asperations? Just because he was good enough to beat a few bad teams doesn't mean he is worth more than a starting OL or RB. Especially since you can assume that next year some team will take a flyer on him and overpay him to leave.

Mike
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Old 03-02-2008   #395
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

GP

I hate it that DC didn,t work out here, but don't hold it against Kubes. He realized DC stunk & took step to rectify this mistake.

I don't understand why you hold Kubes selection of MS in such low regaurd.
Is it because Kubes pulled the plug on DC?

Kubes is a better evaluator of Qb's than you.
Is that why you have such disdain for MS? Give the guy a chance he did a good job in his 1st year as a starter. Yea he got injured but DC missed games behind this O-line & I bet you wouldn't call him injury prone.
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Old 03-02-2008   #396
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Schaub has flaws that are going to continue to get him hammered. I don't wish it upon him, but it doesn't look promising that Schaub gets much further down the road here...and is still standing.
Name them. Every QB has some flaws, but what are you asserting as his?
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Old 03-02-2008   #397
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

i'd trade the guy.. this team drafted so poorly the first few years that we still have holes to fill and I am willing to take a chance, I know there is no guarantees that whoever we draft will pan out (just happens), but there is no guarantee that Sage will even see the field (if shaub stays heathy) ...we need help talentwise on this team

if we can get a 2nd rounder for Sage, so be it.. I haven't looked at the 3rd round on where we'd sit with that.. so not sure

. as AJ on another thread said
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Spending big bucks in free agency is punishment for drafting poorly.
And maybe it is my of Kubiak and his ability to teach QB's.. I feel if he can get Sage to play good here, there has to be another QB we can bring in(except one) and make him as serviceable as Sage.
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Old 03-02-2008   #398
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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If Schaub is the real deal... then Sage won't cut it. If he's not then we're going to need the pick to build with anyways. The only thing I know is that Sage isn't good enough to start for this team. If this team is good enough to go anywhere, sage won't take us there if he has to play extended time. The value of what a 2nd or 3rd round pick... especially in this OL and RB rich draft is to me more than that of a backup QB for 1 year.

Mike

You can substitute Schuab's name for Sage's in any part of your argument. IMHO, neither has shown to be any better than the other.

But I'm with you, Sage is the only person on our team, that might get us a second(that we could stand to lose anyway). I agree that a team should have a capable back-up, but he's the back-up.

Kubiak did a good job finding Sage, I trust he can find us another quality back-up. Getting a second for Sage is just good business.....

Heck, I'll take Minnesota's two thirds. Or a third this year, and next years second.
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Old 03-02-2008   #399
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I have never really talked about Sage much, but I guess if I had to sum him up I would say he is an almost starter. He is a little more than a backup, but not a starter. He has decent skills but his accuracy is inconsistent, because of this, he throws more interceptions than he should. He also throws TD's though. He is calm under pressure and doesnt just throw the ball out there. He's just a guy that can't quite get over the hump to become a starter. I doubt he ever will at this point. The problem is, replacing him is a big gamble. We have just as much chance of getting someone worse as we do getting someone better. Basicly he is what he is, but he is quantifiable. I think that makes him more valuable than most of the run of the mill backups out there in the system. So we can trade him away for picks, but I dont like our chances of replacing him any time soon.
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Old 03-02-2008   #400
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Because, for whatever reason, he is doing fairly well in THIS system on THIS team. Look, I don't think Sage goes to the Vikings (or any other team, for that matter) and does as well as he does here. OK? He's settled into Kubiak's system well, has somehow been able to make this offense feel confident (in spite of the questionable playcalling) and yet the guy is just a stinkin' dirt bag backup to you guys. Sage has feelings, too. LOL.

Sage (to me) has earned the right to compete for the job.

Schaub has flaws that are going to continue to get him hammered. I don't wish it upon him, but it doesn't look promising that Schaub gets much further down the road here...and is still standing.
GP seriously no one here is personally dissing Sage Rosenfels.
You're acting as if you have to circle the wagons for the guy.

I'm just going to mention it again for the Sage for president crowd. Cody Carlson.
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