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Old 03-01-2008   #341
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Apparently Schaub couldn't take a hit in college either.

I think he has the tools to be great, but if he can't stay on the field, they don't do much good.

If Sage leaves, then the pick will be used on a second tier QB, like Ainge, Booty, or Brennan
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Old 03-01-2008   #342
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
I think he has the tools to be great, but if he can't stay on the field, they don't do much good.
Exactly. I guess we’ll find out this season.



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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post

If Sage leaves, then the pick will be used on a second tier QB, like Ainge, Booty, or Brennan
I hope Sage doesn’t leave, but if he does, one pick is not good enough for me. I don’t care what anybody says, Sage is very important to this team. Until Schaub proves he can stand up and play, and not get injured, we need Sage.
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Old 03-01-2008   #343
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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I hope Sage doesn’t leave, but if he does, one pick is not good enough for me. I don’t care what anybody says, Sage is very important to this team. Until Schaub proves he can stand up and play, and not get injured, we need Sage.
Agreed. It would have to be a 2nd plus another pick in the 3-5 range to get it done.
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Old 03-01-2008   #344
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
I hope Sage doesn’t leave, but if he does, one pick is not good enough for me. I don’t care what anybody says, Sage is very important to this team. Until Schaub proves he can stand up and play, and not get injured, we need Sage.
I tend to agree with all of that too.
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Old 03-01-2008   #345
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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No, YOU guys are lobbying for David Carr II (Schaub), not I. LOL...I have seen a lot of backpeddling around here (on this thread) whereby a lot of posters are seemingly beginning to understand that we have TWO BACKUPS...not a backup and a proven starter, as a lot of you are trying to communicate. Schaub is no more a true starter than Sage.

If anything, Sage is running circles around Schaub--But that's only because he's been around this team and knows its system and the players' capabilities within the system...the best way to maximize EVERYONE'S talents and strengths during on-field play. Maybe Schaub needed a year under the belt, maybe he needed to get the first year over and done with. But I am still seeing some other qualities in Schaub that do not make me feel comfortable with him--And "No," hearing you guys repeat this mantra of "Schaub is the starter, Schaub is the starter, Schau is the starter" does not make those fears go away. It only makes me think of this: David Carr.

So the comparison you're trying to draw between me and Hulk75 is 180-degrees out of phase--It's YOU guys who are acting as if Matt Schaub (the NEW number 8 who got the big payday) can nevvvvver be criticized or held in any other view other than a glowing report.

I just want a true, bonafide open competition for the spot. There are three things that I think need to stop happening:

1. Playcalling that looks good on the opening drive and then fizzles to absolute predictable playcalling into the half and then no adjustments for the second half. How many of you sit there in the second quarter and you see the formation, down-and-distance, field position, and you KNOW what play is coming up? Exactly. And so does a veteran defensive coordinator.

2. No more of the "Wait until round 6 or 7 to find that 'diamond-in-the-rough running back'" which Shanahan and Kubiak think they can discover and pay cheaply for. Minnesota is proof positive that a great running back can help a bad or mildly average QB.

3. Here's the most frustrating thing that needs to STOP happening: The ridiculous and consistently failing approach by this team's upper management and coaching staff to think that we can tab a guy "the starter" and then that's just suddenly a magical cure to the QB problem here.

Sage would prolly flop if he were in a different system. Is it conceivable to you guys that *possibly* Sage has found the right system and players around him to fit his style of play? All the guy did was come in and save OUR season from being a losing season. Isn't that worth an open competition for once? Or will pride and contract dollars get in the way?

We have two backups. End of story. Use the words, the semantics, and whatever else you want...we don't have a starter. This is Frye-Anderson at the moment unless we pull a huge deal and go grab another "starting" QB somehow. Boyd, IMO, is someone who is intriguing...A Gerrard type of player who is mobile, strong, and waiting his turn. He moved the ball easily against us in the preseason game of 2007 vs. Arizona.

Anywho...I will lobby for the best backup to win the starting job.
I'm not backpeddling. And I'm not saying Schaub is above reproach. I'm saying Schaub is a young guy waiting for his shot. Sage is what he is. And despite what many here think... the guy didn't play that well last year. He has never played that well. He's a GOOD backup. That's his ceiling. Schaub's is unknown. I don't know what he's capable of. But I do know that if the best we can expect next year is another performance like we got last year from BOTH of our QBs... there will be no playoffs.

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Old 03-01-2008   #346
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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I did a thing with the numbers for the last 10 years (prior to this season) and it was astonishing the number of QB's that missed fewer than 2 games to make the playoffs vs those that started 14 or fewer. I'll look and see if I can find it... or I'll do it again.
So we are just satisfied with Schaub, He can make 9 games but he will be down for 7 so we will be mediokre again, Sorry I do not buy the coaches trusting Matt to go for the distance and do not think they are nieve enough to let Sage go. When you have a situation like we have it is unique. Everybody just has first of the season jumpers, I see good things starting for the Texans so I am gonna ride it out. Come on Draft.
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Old 03-01-2008   #347
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

If Sage is that good of a backup, why not extend him with a pay raise? That way we protect our selves. I know picks are of value, but so is stability and solid play at the most important spot on the team.
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Old 03-01-2008   #348
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Frog:

1. Without Sage...if we had Van Pelt or Zabransky...we wouldn't have finished 8-8. So my opinion is that Sage DID rescue the season and at least handle things enough to get us to 8-8.

2. Sage, in my opinion, DID run circles around Schaub. Remember the bad pass to AJ in the back of the end zone in the Carolina game and Schaub told Kubiak "I'll never do that again?" Well...flash forward to San Diego where Schaud did it TWICE. I know Sage is known as an interception machine, but where is the credit for almost rallying us past Tennessee when things looked bad? It was a product of Titans prevent defense? Maybe. But I see Sage as a guy who knows our system better, knows our players better, and he has--in my opinion--been able to do more with less. Isn't it a FACT that we had more injuries to the oline after Schaub went down? I'm fairly sure that we had shuffled the oline quite a bit when Sage was in there.

3. Making me out to be the one who is causing division amongst the troops, when we "have so much going for us right now" is absurd. You're just flat out using hyperbole now. You can't fool a Public Relations and Advertising degree holder...I see what you're doing from a mile away!

Look, you're finally talking to me like I'm a human now. Thank you. But none of what we discuss here is going to impact the team. This is an opinion board and it's about as relevant to the success of the team as a small time Star Trek covention in Wapauga, Illinois is to the success of the Star Trek brand name.

Convict me in your mind all you want. LOL. I just can feel that Schaub is not the answer, and I think it'll be settled soon.

BTW, I do not idolize Sage. Even for a Round 2 compensation, I don't think we can trade away Sage unless there's a viable backup waiting in the wings. The fact that we're even considering trading Sage makes me hope that we DO have a viable backup on the radar somewhere--Not a draft pick in this year's draft, but an actual backup with some gametime under his belt. We need Sage as much as anything else right now.
1) If we didn't have Sage I doubt those 2 would have been our backups. They were 3rd stringers or less and didn't even make the team. Again, put things in perspective.

2) As many people have reminded you over and over..do you remember why we had to comeback against the Titans?Sages INTS. He basically put us in the hole that he tried to dig us out of. How is that special?SERIOUSLY?

Here is the post from the old thread where I responded to you

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Let me give you a little refresher since you claim your not a stats guy yet you just try to throw out bad games and have amnesia on other ones that weren't won...Schaub...80% after AJ went out in the Indy loss!!..how are those first three games and EFFICIENCY. His "horrible game v Atlanta he was 70% and over 300 yards with no ints. He lost a fumble. This is the same stuff Sage does and in many cases less turnovers and better percentages. Also, when your top weapon is out, the red zone shrinks. Everyone knows this. He was 3-1 with AJ. Our sack total is one of the tops in the league. Through half of the season Schaub was ranked in the Top 10 in 7 QB categories. You keep saying I'm not spelling things out but your arguments hold no weight. I showed you a stat on our sack total and what NFL execs are seeing of the guy in the pocket..along with many of us..and you come right back with an argument that he can't get throws off and is too slow in the pocket. How does that work?

KC--(W)-16 of 22 (72.7), 225 yds, 1 TD, 1 int
Car--(W)-20 of 28 (71.4), 227 yds, 2 TDs, 0 int
Indy(L)--27 of 33 (81.8), 236 yds, 1 TD, 2 int
Atl(L)--28 of 40 (70), 317 yds, 1 TD, 0 int
Miami(W) 20 of 34 (58.8) 294 0 TD 1 int

I will keep going if you want.....because there are only 1 or 2 truly bad games out of 11, yet people are turning a blind eye..ok, I will..almost all of these games above abnd below are similar if not better to the stats you are saying made Champ Bailey look like a chump and "picking apart defenses."

Jax(L) 19 of 31 (61.3) 259 yds 0 Tds 1 int
Tenn(L) 5 of 9 (55.6), 23 yds, 0 and 0 (knowcked out..Sage comes in with 4 TOs and then leads us back)
S.D-(L and a truly bad game) 11 of 18 (61.1), 77 yds, 0 TD, 2 ints
Out Two Games
N.O.--21 of 33 (63.6) 293 yds 2 TDs 0 ints
CLE-(allegedly horrible game but actually not bad besides 2 picks)
22 of 36 (61.1) 256 yds 2 tds 2 ints
Tenn--3 of 5 (60), 34 yds, 0 and 0
3) No clue what that meant at all. You were someone that sat here yelling people down and banging your drum for Carr despite why me and many others told you years ago and now you are doing the same for Sage and against Schaub..."Carr II(which is plain inane)

Sage has always been a backup. Despite TDs and yards he still kept took things the wrong way with the INTs and inconsistent play. No matter how hard you try he will not be a starter no matter what Schaub does. There will be another to come in if he fails and Sage will still be the backup. It is what he does best...and not all the time.

I really like both guys but I see much more upside in Schaub if the team can stay intact around him and he gets a second year in the system.
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Old 03-01-2008   #349
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

schaub has more upside that sage, trade sage for multiple picks
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Old 03-01-2008   #350
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Why not trade Schaub to Atlanta for this year's and next year's second round picks?

Then, trade Sage Rosenfels to Minnesota for a third round pick, then bundle that third round pick and next year's second round from Atlanta to Tampa Bay for Chris Simms.

So, now we've got Chris Simms who is a left handed QB. Now we don't need a blue chip LT because our RT, Winston, becomes the blindside protector by default. We draft a RT quality tackle in the draft and put him at LT.

Sign Brian Griese to back up Simms on a cheap free agent deal and we get all of our picks back and don't need a blue chip LT.

Problem solved.

You're welcome, Rick Smith.
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Old 03-01-2008   #351
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by drewmar74 View Post
Why not trade Schaub to Atlanta for this year's and next year's second round picks?

Then, trade Sage Rosenfels to Minnesota for a third round pick, then bundle that third round pick and next year's second round from Atlanta to Tampa Bay for Chris Simms.

So, now we've got Chris Simms who is a left handed QB. Now we don't need a blue chip LT because our RT, Winston, becomes the blindside protector by default. We draft a RT quality tackle in the draft and put him at LT.

Sign Brian Griese to back up Simms on a cheap free agent deal and we get all of our picks back and don't need a blue chip LT.

Problem solved.

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Old 03-01-2008   #352
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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The war on drugs isn't effecting you one bit, is it???
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Old 03-01-2008   #353
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

You guys are premature. I believe Rosenfels has two years (this year and next) on his current contract. I say we keep him this year and groom his replacement (Shane Boyd or whoever) on the practice squad. Then, when Sage is in his last contract year, that's when we trade him.
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Old 03-01-2008   #354
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by drewmar74 View Post
Why not trade Schaub to Atlanta for this year's and next year's second round picks?

Then, trade Sage Rosenfels to Minnesota for a third round pick, then bundle that third round pick and next year's second round from Atlanta to Tampa Bay for Chris Simms.

So, now we've got Chris Simms who is a left handed QB. Now we don't need a blue chip LT because our RT, Winston, becomes the blindside protector by default. We draft a RT quality tackle in the draft and put him at LT.

Sign Brian Griese to back up Simms on a cheap free agent deal and we get all of our picks back and don't need a blue chip LT.

Problem solved.

You're welcome, Rick Smith.
Me and Towelie from the other boards think you're the shit.
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Old 03-01-2008   #355
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

To be honest we are playing with 2 career backup QB's. Shaub has more talent than Sage but injuries are an issue for Matt so to make it easy I think we should draft another QB maybe in the 4th or 5th if we trade Sage for maybe a 2nd or 3rd rd. pick.
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Old 03-01-2008   #356
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Me and Towelie from the other boards think you're the shit.
Thank you.

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Old 03-01-2008   #357
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
So we are just satisfied with Schaub, He can make 9 games but he will be down for 7 so we will be mediokre again, Sorry I do not buy the coaches trusting Matt to go for the distance and do not think they are nieve enough to let Sage go. When you have a situation like we have it is unique. Everybody just has first of the season jumpers, I see good things starting for the Texans so I am gonna ride it out. Come on Draft.
No man that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't know what schaub is. But I've seen enough of Sage to convince me he's not a long term solution at QB, and the numbers show that you really need your starter to play if you want the best chance of winning. I'm not convinced however that Schaub can't be that guy. If this was a case of a team that had only a hole or two to fill.. I would say keep Sage. But this team has several holes to fill among their starters. I say fix those holes first unless you think you might have a starter who could get you to the playoffs and beyond in Sage.

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Old 03-01-2008   #358
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
No man that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't know what schaub is. But I've seen enough of Sage to convince me he's not a long term solution at QB, and the numbers show that you really need your starter to play if you want the best chance of winning. I'm not convinced however that Schaub can't be that guy. If this was a case of a team that had only a hole or two to fill.. I would say keep Sage. But this team has several holes to fill among their starters. I say fix those holes first unless you think you might have a starter who could get you to the playoffs and beyond in Sage.

Mike
Mike,

Here's a 7th name for you: Frank Reich! He was fairly important to the Buffalo Bills superbowl run... and also to the history of the Houston Oilers.

By the way, Sage performed a similar feat against Tennessee last year.
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Old 03-01-2008   #359
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Mike,

Here's a 7th name for you: Frank Reich! He was fairly important to the Buffalo Bills superbowl run... and also to the history of the Houston Oilers.

By the way, Sage performed a similar feat against Tennessee last year.
Two big differences

1) The Texans lost

2) Reich didn't put his team in the hole by throwing 4 INTs. Reich was 21-24, 4 TDs and 1 INT.

Are you guys remembering why were behind to start?

I'm not taking away from Sage in general but people need to stop using that game as an example.
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Old 03-01-2008   #360
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Post Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

[quote=ObsiWan;855693]That's the key point here. We're better off, QB-wise, than we've ever been.

Unless someone is offering the farm for Sage then why screw with that??

Think about this. Minnesota has NINE picks this year. They are well under the cap. And they have a star-quality, two-headed running game.
Yet all they offered was a #3 pick. Minnesota offering one of their TWO rd 3 picks seems more like them tossing us a bone than them making a legit, good-faith offer.
They could have done much better. In my mind, they were trying to play us.
And some of you would have gone for it.

Agreed. Let's see how badly the Vikings want Sage. It has to be for multiple picks. Sure we have needs, but who's out there to replace him? It's tough to find a quarterback. Just ask the Bears.
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