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Old 03-01-2008   #321
Rex King
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
i have the best body part analogy:

sage = a kidney

Who's the appendix?
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Old 03-01-2008   #322
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

black/jamar fletcher/petey. we dont really need them and we only talk about them when bad things happen
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Old 03-01-2008   #323
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Pluses for Sage:

Good lockerroom guy
Good leader
Good backup, says the right things.
Creates competition for Schaub
Schaub is coming off of non-throwing arm shoulder surgery. The words "shoulder surgery" strikes fear into the hearts of all Texans fans.
He knows the system
Was able to win games last year, and when he played the offense didn't become unwatchable.
A team needs lots of good fortune to get through a season without their QB getting dinged. The Texans haven't had a lot of good fortune.
Relatively cheap contract
Why turn a strength of the team into another area that is a problem. At the end of last season had Sage got hurt, we were likely going to see some atrocious football. See e.g. Jared Zabransky pre-season.
AFC South tends to have teams that carry only two QBs on the roster so that they can put other parts of the roster on the field. Better to have two viable options if you are going that way.

Negs for Sage:

May be unhappy at being a perpetual backup and may push for trade. This is something that hasn't been said, but it is possible.
He is an interception machine, hard to say he could be a game manager
Dealing him before the draft means dealing him with value.
There are other possible QBs that know Kubiak's system--Brian Griese may end up getting cut for example.
Kubiak can learn up QBs.
The Texans have tons of needs, and draft picks have value to a team that not only needs depth but better starters.
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Old 03-01-2008   #324
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Sorry GP but it is statements like that where I lose all respectability regarding a post. Not only is it not true but his INTs and the way he played the last two games doesn't show it. We went around and around with each other the last 5 weeks of the season and it seemed to sink in to you what the situation was. Its like you are ignoring it now and starting all over. There is no rationale regarding many of your thoughts. Again, I nailed you 3 times in our earlier discussions trying to make up facts that didn't exist regarding other QBs like the Browns QB, etc. I refuse to go around in circles with someone who spouts phrases like above and has shown in the past that will manufacture facts.

We can save some time and FACT responses by just rereading this thread...for anyone that cares and wants to see where GP is coming from....it is Hulk75 Part Two

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Sage
Let's just do each other a favor and agree right now that we're not going to like each other...nor will we be able to get along on this.

I didn't even read your reply. I saw HoustonFrog and then I saw my post quoted in its entirety, and that's all I needed. No need to read what you wrote. You hate me. I get it.

From here on out, I will be putting my argument into this abbreviated format: We have two backups.

This will save time for all of us. We don't have a true starting QB, and saying he "is" or pointing to his contract means squat to me. Think larger than that, please. You're capable of doing the analysis and looking at the two QBs for yourself: They are both backup QBs who are about neck-and-neck with each other. We didn't acquire a starting QB...geesh, how much simpler does it get than this? We SPECULATED just like any team does when it cannot get its hand on a real franchise QB such as a Peyton Manning or a John Elway, etc.

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Old 03-01-2008   #325
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Slow down a second. Don't make me pull out the thread I created toward the end of the regular season whereby I documented two different analyst crews (IIRC) who were saying that there seems to be the case for an open competition.

They watched Schaub, off and on in a casual manner, and they saw Sage handle the team in the latter part of the season. So let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and start saying that Sage is a retard or something.

You guys have Sage Hate all over yourselves!

We have two backups, bro. No need to get in a hissy over this fact. We have a starter "in name only," but not necessarily in deed/action. There are durability issues with Schaub no matter how we explain how it happened.

May the best backup win the job, IMO. And even then...things are going to happen that might thrust one guy back into the starting role again. Its not a big deal, really. But to sit here and say that Matt Schaub has nailed down the starting spot...well, I just think we have two backups right now. And I don't know that being able to say "QB X is the starter" or "QB Y is the starter" is going to really do much, IMO.

We have two backups right now. Deal wit' it.
That is the funny part. NO ONE HATES SAGE!!

People are just being realistic about him, his playing history and where he is on our team. People know what Schaub did and they saw what Sage could andcould not do. It is random, made up, crazy assertions that drive people made. Again, reread the thread I posted on the last page. You are all over the place.
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Old 03-01-2008   #326
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
We have two backup QBs trying to solidify a starting position.

One question: If Sage outplayed Schaub in the preseason, would you be behind him and support Sage as the starter in Game 1?

If Schaub outplayed Sage and won the gig...I'd be behind the starter.
Me too. I would like to think we all would.
None of us are married to Schaub the way people were married to D.C.
I think that includes Smithiak.
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Old 03-01-2008   #327
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Let's just do each other a favor and agree right now that we're not going to like each other...nor will we be able to get along on this.

I didn't even read your reply. I saw HoustonFrog and then I saw my post quoted in its entirety, and that's all I needed. No need to read what you wrote. You hate me. I get it.

From here on out, I will be putting my argument into this abbreviated format: We have two backups.

This will save time for all of us. We don't have a true starting QB, and saying he "is" or pointing to his contract means squat to me. Think larger than that, please. You're capable of doing the analysis and looking at the two QBs for yourself: They are both backup QBs who are about neck-and-neck with each other. We didn't acquire a starting QB...geesh, how much simpler does it get than this? We SPECULATED just like any team does when it cannot get its hand on a real franchise QB such as a Peyton Manning or a John Elway, etc.

Love you, too.
LOL..I don't HATE anyone on the board. It is ridiculous to hate someone I don't know and whom I'm talking football with. I DO hate trying to debate football with someone who spouts broad statements and claims they are facts. and who has done this for months on end. I'm not saying I'm right. Not even close. I'm only saying that you are blindly closed off to the reality of the situation. Again, re-read the old thread and you will see where you were so lathered up that you privately sent me a message and yelled me down in the thread saying you never mentioned a player when you talked about him 3 pages earlier. You get worked into a frenzy and you don't read what you write. We have a good sutation here. It was bad enough with Carr. Why make a problem or a team situation where there is none?
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 03-01-2008 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 03-01-2008   #328
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
This is the best assessment of our situation I've read on the board. "Two backups" says it best, though it probably has to be said that the edge right now goes to Sage for being able to stay healthy.
It is hard to evaluate the QB play of last season because of:

1. Schaub being in his first season with system.
2. Andre Johnson being out a large portion of the year.
3. The Texans' running game being ridiciously unreliable.

There's pluses and minuses to their particular abilities that you can go into, but I think particularly as it relates to Schaub, I think you have to have an incomplete for evaluation purposes.
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Old 03-01-2008   #329
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Pluses for Sage:

Good lockerroom guy
Good leader
Good backup, says the right things.
Creates competition for Schaub
Schaub is coming off of non-throwing arm shoulder surgery. The words "shoulder surgery" strikes fear into the hearts of all Texans fans.
He knows the system
Was able to win games last year, and when he played the offense didn't become unwatchable.
A team needs lots of good fortune to get through a season without their QB getting dinged. The Texans haven't had a lot of good fortune.
Relatively cheap contract
Why turn a strength of the team into another area that is a problem. At the end of last season had Sage got hurt, we were likely going to see some atrocious football. See e.g. Jared Zabransky pre-season.
AFC South tends to have teams that carry only two QBs on the roster so that they can put other parts of the roster on the field. Better to have two viable options if you are going that way.

Negs for Sage:

May be unhappy at being a perpetual backup and may push for trade. This is something that hasn't been said, but it is possible.
He is an interception machine, hard to say he could be a game manager
Dealing him before the draft means dealing him with value.
There are other possible QBs that know Kubiak's system--Brian Griese may end up getting cut for example.
Kubiak can learn up QBs.
The Texans have tons of needs, and draft picks have value to a team that not only needs depth but better starters.
I thought I remember at the end of the season that Sage and/or his agent said that he was verrrry OK with staying in Houston? I wish I could remember if it was Sage in a postgame interview on the field, still suited up after a win, or if it was something someone dug up in a media interview or radio show that Sage or his agent had done...

If I'm Sage...I see (1) a wobbly Matt Schaub on the bench most of the season, and (2) I'm not hurting anywhere, and (3) I might get a shot at sticking around in a familiar atmosphere AND win the starting gig. But that's just me. Maybe Sage would seek a trade?

How many times did you see Sage instructing Schaub on the sideline, going over the notes and photos, and Schaub absorbig it all? That's due to Sage being here longer, and the guy is known for being very cerebral. And how many times have you seen Kubiak and Sage in an animated discussion on the sideline where you can see Sage motioning with his hands as he explains what he's seeing on the field?

I can say that Schaub might be able to turn the corner this next season, but I am only at about a 50% on it right now. And I don't know that Sage is the true starter either. But as we go into training camp, the thing that bothers me is that training camp tends to reward the guy who is a workout warrior (David Carr, for example) because he doesn't have guys trying to KILL HIM on every snap.

Once again, for convenience: We have two backup QBs.
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Old 03-01-2008   #330
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
LOL..I don't HATE anyone on the board. It is ridiculous to hate someone I don't know and whom I'm talking football with. I DO hate trying to debate footnball with someone who spouts nonsense and who has done this for months on end. I'm nto saying I'm right. Not even close. I'm only saying that you are blindly closed off to the reality of the situation. Again, re-read the old thread and you will see where you were so lathered up that you privately sent me a message and yelled me down in the thread saying you never mentioned a player when you talked about him 3 pages earlier. You get worked into a frenzy and you don't read what you write. We have a good sutation here. It was bad enough with Carr. Why make a problem or a team situation where there is none?
I admitted my mistake, but feel free to crucify me over and over for it. I usually do my homework, but I did slip on that particular situation. So sue me.

There is no "reality" to this debate because (drum roll, please...) we have two backup QBs. We can't, just by virtue, say "Well, Kubiak 'says' that Schaub is the starter, and Schaub 'is' making the big bucks...so, Schaub is the starter..."

Saying "QB X is the starter" is like saying whomever wins the pole at Daytona is always going to win the race in the end. It's a fluid situation, and I bet a HC like Kubiak (hopefully) is smart enough to go with the hot hand no matter who the starter might be.

My ire is raised when we go David Carr II and try to presume that whomever is "the starter" is just that: The Starter. I learned my lesson with how long I stuck with David Carr, trying to will him to be the QB I thought he was. Nowadays, I don't think we have a real starter.

We just have this: Two backups.

Does Sage become a true starter and play like it? Prolly not.

Does Schaub? You can say he has more upside because he hasn't been a journeyman QB like Sage has. I "get that." But I am in no way comforted with some mechanical things I see in Schaub, nor am I encouraged by his fragility.
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Old 03-01-2008   #331
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Nevermind. Already said.

Last edited by Rex King; 03-01-2008 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 03-01-2008   #332
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Dealing him before the draft means dealing him with value.
There are other possible QBs that know Kubiak's system--Brian Griese may end up getting cut for example.
Kubiak can learn up QBs.
The Texans have tons of needs, and draft picks have value to a team that not only needs depth but better starters.
And I just cannot find a way to disagree with this.

I don't have complete confidence in Schaub yet. I'm hoping that this year is better than last, but right now the jury is still out where I'm concerned which means I think there is no way that we don't have a solid backup. It would be utter stupidity to enter the season with Schaub and someone like Bradlee Van Pelt behind him.

But we do need help in a lot of areas. If we could trade Sage (which I would hate to do because I really pull for the guy) and get a second round pick and then go sign Brian Griese, well, I'd pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat.

If we can trade him and get another backup (again, Griese comes immediately to mind) who can come in and manage a game, well, let Sage go. We could use the help in other areas and heck, he might even do well starting for someone else.
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Old 03-01-2008   #333
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I thought I remember at the end of the season that Sage and/or his agent said that he was verrrry OK with staying in Houston? I wish I could remember if it was Sage in a postgame interview on the field, still suited up after a win, or if it was something someone dug up in a media interview or radio show that Sage or his agent had done...

If I'm Sage...I see (1) a wobbly Matt Schaub on the bench most of the season, and (2) I'm not hurting anywhere, and (3) I might get a shot at sticking around in a familiar atmosphere AND win the starting gig. But that's just me. Maybe Sage would seek a trade?

How many times did you see Sage instructing Schaub on the sideline, going over the notes and photos, and Schaub absorbig it all? That's due to Sage being here longer, and the guy is known for being very cerebral. And how many times have you seen Kubiak and Sage in an animated discussion on the sideline where you can see Sage motioning with his hands as he explains what he's seeing on the field?

I can say that Schaub might be able to turn the corner this next season, but I am only at about a 50% on it right now. And I don't know that Sage is the true starter either. But as we go into training camp, the thing that bothers me is that training camp tends to reward the guy who is a workout warrior (David Carr, for example) because he doesn't have guys trying to KILL HIM on every snap.

Once again, for convenience: We have two backup QBs.
GP have you convienently forgotten his stints in D.C. and Miami? Or the greater # of INTS in more playing time?

No one here is busting your chops on your opinion about Sage. But at the same time i hear the Chris Chandler comparisons people should also be willing to say Cody Carlson.

Funny I don't see two back up Qbs. I see a starter and a backup. I don't see a Rich Gannon, Matt Hasselbeck, or heck even a Derek Anderson in Sage Rosenfels.
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Old 03-01-2008   #334
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

GP

I like Sage but if I could trade him for a draft pick that could help us land Litto Sheppard I would do it. Sheppard is 26 years old & a former all-pro.

IMO this is a good return on the investment that is Sage.

I didn't know that you were a DC- HULK supporter. This speaks volumes to me. You do have the right to your opinion though.

Thankfully KUBES has the right to his opinion & it's the one that counts.

If KUBES thinks keeping Sage is the way to go he will keep him. If KUBES thinks trading him is the way to go thats, what he will do.
Either way is fine with me. I'm glad he's making that dcision & not you or HULK75.
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Old 03-01-2008   #335
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I admitted my mistake, but feel free to crucify me over and over for it. I usually do my homework, but I did slip on that particular situation. So sue me.

There is no "reality" to this debate because (drum roll, please...) we have two backup QBs. We can't, just by virtue, say "Well, Kubiak 'says' that Schaub is the starter, and Schaub 'is' making the big bucks...so, Schaub is the starter..."

Saying "QB X is the starter" is like saying whomever wins the pole at Daytona is always going to win the race in the end. It's a fluid situation, and I bet a HC like Kubiak (hopefully) is smart enough to go with the hot hand no matter who the starter might be.

My ire is raised when we go David Carr II and try to presume that whomever is "the starter" is just that: The Starter. I learned my lesson with how long I stuck with David Carr, trying to will him to be the QB I thought he was. Nowadays, I don't think we have a real starter.

We just have this: Two backups.

Does Sage become a true starter and play like it? Prolly not.

Does Schaub? You can say he has more upside because he hasn't been a journeyman QB like Sage has. I "get that." But I am in no way comforted with some mechanical things I see in Schaub, nor am I encouraged by his fragility.
Well you are getting closer but you are still making sweeping generalizations that aren't true. Schaub is the starter and he is not a backup at this time. Sage is and always has been. Schaub looked good last year but gets an incomplete because of no AJ and the injuries. I'm not going to rewrite a whole thread again but if you look at the old thread again I think I laid out the stats on page 4, etc.

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Sage

BTW, the reason why your chops are being busted is because of the above thread and what was contained in it and the repeat of it here. It wasn't just one mistake..just did throughout the thread and ignored the stats. We made strides last year. We have a level team that is improving. We got rid of a guy, Carr, that brought about massive opinions and split a team. We finally have things going our way and people are now hearing the same bandwagon type calls and see threads about controversy. Why make controversy where there is none?

Phrases attributed to you like:

Quote:
Seeing Sage come in and rescue a season that was lloking to be flushed down the drain...well, it was a relief. The whole offense seemed to pick it up a step; there was a confidence in the huddle and on the field. Granted, Sage knows the offense and the players a lot better.
Quote:
No, YOU guys are lobbying for David Carr II (Schaub),
Quote:
If anything, Sage is running circles around Schaub
They are not only blatantly false but they have zero merit. How can anyone debate phrases like that...or who would try?That is what makes it hard. Again, not hate, we all have differenting opinions. Its what makes it fun. But it is hard to debtae when you read things like above.
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Old 03-01-2008   #336
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
GP

I like Sage but if I could trade him for a draft pick that could help us land Litto Sheppard I would do it. Sheppard is 26 years old & a former all-pro.

IMO this is a good return on the investment that is Sage.

I didn't know that you were a DC- HULK supporter. This speaks volumes to me. You do have the right to your opinion though.

Thankfully KUBES has the right to his opinion & it's the one that counts.

If KUBES thinks keeping Sage is the way to go he will keep him. If KUBES thinks trading him is the way to go thats, what he will do.
Either way is fine with me. I'm glad he's making that dcision & not you or HULK75.
Let me give you some background:

1. We had Dom Capers at HC, and the whole team looked bad.

2. David Carr had a game vs. Arizona where he was allowed to call the plays and lead the team. We won the game and the team looked better. I felt that maybe David was just placed in a bad situation, and that he needed at least the first season with Kubiak to be judged more fairly.

3. Second Honeymoon (a poster here) was a guy who ragged me very hard for sticking by Carr. There were a few posters here, such as Vinny, who also said that David was not "starter material." I held onto the Carr Wagon until roughly halfway through the 1st season under Kubiak. And then, it was clear that I was definitely wrong in my assumption.

4. Amid all of this, Hulk75 was arguably losing his sanity and was flaming everyone on the board, even me. I can show you some Private Messages from Hulk75 to me, and some from me to Hulk75, where you will see that I basically broke away and told him that he was nuts and not able to make sense on the topic because David was his brother. He continued to shred me on the boards, and I was done with it.

It's hard to sit here and say that I supported David Carr until almost the very end. Nobody wants to ever appear vulnerable like this...to say "I was wrong," but I am able to do it. It's part of the fun.

And here I am: Saying that I think we once again have a situation where people are propping up our "starter" as if he's golden and untouchable.

Seems a lot like the previous situation. If we could combine David's durability with Matt's brain...we'd be set. But we can't.

Thank you for at least saying "GP, it's your opinion..."
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Old 03-01-2008   #337
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Frog:

1. Without Sage...if we had Van Pelt or Zabransky...we wouldn't have finished 8-8. So my opinion is that Sage DID rescue the season and at least handle things enough to get us to 8-8.

2. Sage, in my opinion, DID run circles around Schaub. Remember the bad pass to AJ in the back of the end zone in the Carolina game and Schaub told Kubiak "I'll never do that again?" Well...flash forward to San Diego where Schaud did it TWICE. I know Sage is known as an interception machine, but where is the credit for almost rallying us past Tennessee when things looked bad? It was a product of Titans prevent defense? Maybe. But I see Sage as a guy who knows our system better, knows our players better, and he has--in my opinion--been able to do more with less. Isn't it a FACT that we had more injuries to the oline after Schaub went down? I'm fairly sure that we had shuffled the oline quite a bit when Sage was in there.

3. Making me out to be the one who is causing division amongst the troops, when we "have so much going for us right now" is absurd. You're just flat out using hyperbole now. You can't fool a Public Relations and Advertising degree holder...I see what you're doing from a mile away!

Look, you're finally talking to me like I'm a human now. Thank you. But none of what we discuss here is going to impact the team. This is an opinion board and it's about as relevant to the success of the team as a small time Star Trek covention in Wapauga, Illinois is to the success of the Star Trek brand name.

Convict me in your mind all you want. LOL. I just can feel that Schaub is not the answer, and I think it'll be settled soon.

BTW, I do not idolize Sage. Even for a Round 2 compensation, I don't think we can trade away Sage unless there's a viable backup waiting in the wings. The fact that we're even considering trading Sage makes me hope that we DO have a viable backup on the radar somewhere--Not a draft pick in this year's draft, but an actual backup with some gametime under his belt. We need Sage as much as anything else right now.
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Old 03-01-2008   #338
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Neither Sage nor Schaub have played all 16 games as a starter in an entire season yet.

Both Sage and Schaub have had injuries.

Both Sage and Schaub are proven backups than can come in and help the team.

As of yet, neither Sage nor Schaub has proven they are a bona fide starter.

NFL pundits say Schaub has what it takes, not so many say that about Sage.

Both have won games for us.

Schaub is the starter and Sage is not and we can argue about that until the cows come home, but it doesn't change anything.

Anything Iíve left out?

Schaub may be the real deal, but he hasn't proven it yet. Until he does, I think we should hang on to Sage.
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Old 03-01-2008   #339
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Pluses for Sage:

Good lockerroom guy
Good leader
Good backup, says the right things.
Creates competition for Schaub
Schaub is coming off of non-throwing arm shoulder surgery. The words "shoulder surgery" strikes fear into the hearts of all Texans fans.
He knows the system
Was able to win games last year, and when he played the offense didn't become unwatchable.
A team needs lots of good fortune to get through a season without their QB getting dinged. The Texans haven't had a lot of good fortune.
Relatively cheap contract
Why turn a strength of the team into another area that is a problem. At the end of last season had Sage got hurt, we were likely going to see some atrocious football. See e.g. Jared Zabransky pre-season.
AFC South tends to have teams that carry only two QBs on the roster so that they can put other parts of the roster on the field. Better to have two viable options if you are going that way.

Negs for Sage:

May be unhappy at being a perpetual backup and may push for trade. This is something that hasn't been said, but it is possible.
He is an interception machine, hard to say he could be a game manager
Dealing him before the draft means dealing him with value.
There are other possible QBs that know Kubiak's system--Brian Griese may end up getting cut for example.
Kubiak can learn up QBs.
The Texans have tons of needs, and draft picks have value to a team that not only needs depth but better starters.
That's the key point here. We're better off, QB-wise, than we've ever been.

Unless someone is offering the farm for Sage then why screw with that??

Think about this. Minnesota has NINE picks this year. They are well under the cap. And they have a star-quality, two-headed running game.
Yet all they offered was a #3 pick. Minnesota offering one of their TWO rd 3 picks seems more like them tossing us a bone than them making a legit, good-faith offer.
They could have done much better. In my mind, they were trying to play us.
And some of you would have gone for it.

And TC, I think Sage being unhappy about being a backup is a good thing. There are two ways to remedy that situation: (1) Whine about it and ask to be traded. OR (2) Outplay the starter and earn the #1 job.

I'd like to think if Sage outplays Matt, then Sage will start.

Last edited by ObsiWan; 03-01-2008 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 03-01-2008   #340
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
2. Sage, in my opinion, DID run circles around Schaub. Remember the bad pass to AJ in the back of the end zone in the Carolina game and Schaub told Kubiak "I'll never do that again?" Well...flash forward to San Diego where Schaud did it TWICE. I know Sage is known as an interception machine, but where is the credit for almost rallying us past Tennessee when things looked bad? It was a product of Titans prevent defense? Maybe. But I see Sage as a guy who knows our system better, knows our players better, and he has--in my opinion--been able to do more with less.
You're conveniently forgetting:
Quote:
Against the Bucs, Sage hung onto the ball too long and fumbled. Last game he forced a throw into triple coverage that resulted in the Broncos' only TD. Even his incredible 4th quarter performance against the Tacks was necessitated by his earlier errors that resulted in 9 points, which could have easily been more. At least two of Schaub's interceptions weren't really his fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
Isn't it a FACT that we had more injuries to the oline after Schaub went down? I'm fairly sure that we had shuffled the oline quite a bit when Sage was in there.
No. THE key injury was to McKinney and for all practical purposes Ahman Green in the 3rd game. The running game went downhill from there. Losing AJ didn't help Schaub either.
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