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Old 03-01-2008   #301
Errant Hothy
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Has anyone given thought to the possibility that the FO is trying to establish a possible offer value for if they wish to resign Sage for the long term, possibly as a starter, depending on how the upsoming season shakes out?
Sure, but if Minnesota is going to offer a 3rd or better, then Sage's contract is below what his value might be (to a team like Minnesota). If I'm the Texans I don't even think about re-working his deal now...it would only lead to an increase in his cost against the cap. If Sage and his agent feel this way, he could be a camp hold-out (mad about either the money or missing a chance to truly compete for a starting gig).
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Old 03-01-2008   #302
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Yes we do.

Of the two QBs we have right now, we don't have a definitive starter.

We have two backups who are on the verge of being a starter. Schaub was not a starting QB with years of starting experience when we traded for him. People are PRETENDING that we acquired a starter in Matt Schaub. We didn't.

We speculated that he could start. A lot of Falcons fans tried to tell us he wouldn't be mobile enough...and we sorta' laughed them off. I see a guy who played the first game and looked sharp getting away from center--crisp steps, good footwork--and then he just began to slow down and the pass rush was on him wayyyy to quickly over the next few games.

Seeing Sage come in and rescue a season that was lloking to be flushed down the drain...well, it was a relief. The whole offense seemed to pick it up a step; there was a confidence in the huddle and on the field. Granted, Sage knows the offense and the players a lot better.

If anything makes me laugh, it's the "games" we play--and the games coaches play--when the proverbial "We don't have a QB controversy" comments start rolling out. As soon as THOSE comments start rolling out, then you absolutely 100% know you have a competition going on. You don't hear the words "QB controversy" in Indy or New England...it's not even in the dictionary in those two places.

When you have to openly "deny" that there's a QB controversy...there IS one. Period.

Geesh, I'd think that Texans fans wouldn't care WHO started as long as it was the MAN who deserved to have the gig. After 5 years of David Carr, we kinda' need to let go of this pipe dream of being able to pencil in a starter and defend him to no end. You guys do realize that you're doing the same thing with Schaub that a lot of us (including ME) did with David?

Sitting around trashing people like me who just want SOMEONE to win the job and do it consistently, and therefore defending a backup QB like Schaub as if he's been a starter for years, is puzzling.

I am a Texans fan. Not a Sage fan. Not a Schaub fan. I think they shold battle it out. And I think there's a lot of truth to what the Titans' Haynesworth said when he said "I bet Sage would have liked to have seen some of that starting money!" We rolled the dice on Schaub, and I supported it when it happened, but I'm retreating on it...I don't think Schaub is the guy for the long term. I just don't. Out of the two backup QBs we have, I'd say they're pretty even in the race for the starting job right now.

8-8 is a lot better than 2-14. Kubiak and Smith are doing a great job. I'm glad we have Sage-Schaub to argue about...and not who our next HC shold be and why our GM is such a moron. Thank God THOSE days are gone.
This is the best assessment of our situation I've read on the board. "Two backups" says it best, though it probably has to be said that the edge right now goes to Sage for being able to stay healthy.
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Old 03-01-2008   #303
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
Sure, but if Minnesota is going to offer a 3rd or better, then Sage's contract is below what his value might be (to a team like Minnesota). If I'm the Texans I don't even think about re-working his deal now...it would only lead to an increase in his cost against the cap. If Sage and his agent feel this way, he could be a camp hold-out (mad about either the money or missing a chance to truly compete for a starting gig).
Not now......you missed my point, or I didn't make myself clear........I meant in order to establish some sort of bench mark for comparison to the time nearing the END of this season if his performance deems him as winnning out at starter.
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Old 03-01-2008   #304
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
This is the best assessment of our situation I've read on the board. "Two backups" says it best, though it probably has to be said that the edge right now goes to Sage for being able to stay healthy.
Yeah, it was really great having Sage be able to come in and take over for Carr a couple of years ago.

Oh.

Wait.

Sage was injured and we had to pick up Bradlee Van Pelt.

Nevermind.
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Old 03-01-2008   #305
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Of all the NFL fans, I would think Texan fans could appreciate depth at a position. We've had so many injuries isn't it comforting to know that we have 2 qbs that we can win with? Believe me, I'm the first guy to lust after draft picks but I also understand how miserable it is to root for a team with poor QB play. With Sage and Schaub both here until after 2009, we are fairly certain to see at least solid QB play... If you take either of those guys out of the equation, you significantly change those odds- either due to injuries, regression of ability, or other unforseeable things.
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Old 03-01-2008   #306
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Of all the NFL fans, I would think Texan fans could appreciate depth at a position. We've had so many injuries isn't it comforting to know that we have 2 qbs that we can win with? Believe me, I'm the first guy to lust after draft picks but I also understand how miserable it is to root for a team with poor QB play. With Sage and Schaub both here until after 2009, we are fairly certain to see at least solid QB play... If you take either of those guys out of the equation, you significantly change those odds- either due to injuries, regression of ability, or other unforseeable things.
I completely agree. I canít possibly image the Texans trading Sage. This deal is like chopping off your hands to trade them for better feet.
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Old 03-01-2008   #307
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I have a question for all of those who are saying that Sage is too valuable to trade.

Do y'all think that the Texans will make the playoffs next season?

Becuase history shows that teams who make the playoffs, rely on their starter to get them their, not their back-up QBs.
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Old 03-01-2008   #308
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
I have a question for all of those who are saying that Sage is too valuable to trade.

Do y'all think that the Texans will make the playoffs next season?

Becuase history shows that teams who make the playoffs, rely on their starter to get them their, not their back-up QBs.

Good point. But until our "starter" proves himself to be a reliable starter, then we need Sage. Just the way it is right now.
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Old 03-01-2008   #309
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
I completely agree. I canít possibly image the Texans trading Sage. This deal is like chopping off your hands to trade them for better feet.
Its closer to trading your back-up pair of hands for body parts that you dont have.
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Old 03-01-2008   #310
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Its closer to trading your back-up pair of hands for body parts that you dont have.
Yeah, but those backup handsÖÖno, I better not go down that road. This is a PG13 board.

As Iíve said before, if we trade Sage it has to be multiple high picks. We have to draft a decent QB and still get value. Losing Sage is losing a proven QB that can run our offense and score points.
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Old 03-01-2008   #311
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
If they had equal time against the opposing 1st team Ds, and the coaches said that Sage was the better option..I would absolutly support him.

If the FO staff said that moving Sage for a draft pick was the best move for the team, would you support the move?
Well, if we could get 2, #2's and trade spots in round one.... yes.
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Old 03-01-2008   #312
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Well, if we could get 2, #2's and trade spots in round one.... yes.
Please stop acting like there is no difference between a career, journeyman back-up and a young back-up who has potential to be a starter.

Several NFL anylast and Front Office personnal felt that Schaub had a chance to be a very good starter in this league; none feel that way about Sage. Even the Vikings are after him for cempetition/insurance reasons for a QB who lloks completly lost at times.
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Old 03-01-2008   #313
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by M Shadows View Post
Yes he is. A good back up to have but Schaub is our starter. If Minnesota is trading for him to be a back up to Jackson that should close the case.
Schaub and Sage would be backups to Jackson.

ObsiWan my point is that there are always VERY few backups worth what we gave up for Schaub and I don't know of any currently in the league.

Also, with as well as Sage has played, I wouldn't be surprised if the FO would trade Schaub back to the Falcons for exactly what we gave up for him. But, I'll bet ya Atlanta won't make that deal.
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Old 03-01-2008   #314
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Schaub and Sage would be backups to Jackson.

ObsiWan my point is that there are always VERY few backups worth what we gave up for Schaub and I don't know of any currently in the league.

Also, with as well as Sage has played, I wouldn't be surprised if the FO would trade Schaub back to the Falcons for exactly what we gave up for him. But, I'll bet ya Atlanta won't make that deal.
Off the top of my head,and going back over the last 3 seasons; these are the QBs you would need "Schaub like" pakages to get dealt from their teams:

Aaron Rodgers
Tony Romo
Kevin Kolb
David Gerrard
Dereck Anderson or Brady Quinn (whomever winds up the back-up)
Phillip Rivers
Marc Bulger
Jake Delhomme
Matt Schaub
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Old 03-01-2008   #315
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I never thought much of Sage and found it curious when Kubiak was so happy we signed him. Our coaches and scouts have done a great job of IDing under appreciated talent and getting the most out of their abilities. While I'm not foaming at the mouth to trade Sage, I do believe that his value is at its peak.

If we could bring in someone like Quinn Gray to be the new #2, then trading Sage now might be a smart way to cash in on his value and add a possible starter. It's a gamble on Schuab's health and a new back-up's capability, but one that could gain us a CB, LB, OL, etc.
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Old 03-01-2008   #316
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Are you still lobbying for Sage as the starter.

My god, give it a break. It's like Hulk75 trying to get us to beleive that Carr doesn't suck.
No, YOU guys are lobbying for David Carr II (Schaub), not I. LOL...I have seen a lot of backpeddling around here (on this thread) whereby a lot of posters are seemingly beginning to understand that we have TWO BACKUPS...not a backup and a proven starter, as a lot of you are trying to communicate. Schaub is no more a true starter than Sage.

If anything, Sage is running circles around Schaub--But that's only because he's been around this team and knows its system and the players' capabilities within the system...the best way to maximize EVERYONE'S talents and strengths during on-field play. Maybe Schaub needed a year under the belt, maybe he needed to get the first year over and done with. But I am still seeing some other qualities in Schaub that do not make me feel comfortable with him--And "No," hearing you guys repeat this mantra of "Schaub is the starter, Schaub is the starter, Schau is the starter" does not make those fears go away. It only makes me think of this: David Carr.

So the comparison you're trying to draw between me and Hulk75 is 180-degrees out of phase--It's YOU guys who are acting as if Matt Schaub (the NEW number 8 who got the big payday) can nevvvvver be criticized or held in any other view other than a glowing report.

I just want a true, bonafide open competition for the spot. There are three things that I think need to stop happening:

1. Playcalling that looks good on the opening drive and then fizzles to absolute predictable playcalling into the half and then no adjustments for the second half. How many of you sit there in the second quarter and you see the formation, down-and-distance, field position, and you KNOW what play is coming up? Exactly. And so does a veteran defensive coordinator.

2. No more of the "Wait until round 6 or 7 to find that 'diamond-in-the-rough running back'" which Shanahan and Kubiak think they can discover and pay cheaply for. Minnesota is proof positive that a great running back can help a bad or mildly average QB.

3. Here's the most frustrating thing that needs to STOP happening: The ridiculous and consistently failing approach by this team's upper management and coaching staff to think that we can tab a guy "the starter" and then that's just suddenly a magical cure to the QB problem here.

Sage would prolly flop if he were in a different system. Is it conceivable to you guys that *possibly* Sage has found the right system and players around him to fit his style of play? All the guy did was come in and save OUR season from being a losing season. Isn't that worth an open competition for once? Or will pride and contract dollars get in the way?

We have two backups. End of story. Use the words, the semantics, and whatever else you want...we don't have a starter. This is Frye-Anderson at the moment unless we pull a huge deal and go grab another "starting" QB somehow. Boyd, IMO, is someone who is intriguing...A Gerrard type of player who is mobile, strong, and waiting his turn. He moved the ball easily against us in the preseason game of 2007 vs. Arizona.

Anywho...I will lobby for the best backup to win the starting job.
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Old 03-01-2008   #317
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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This is Frye-Anderson at the moment unless we pull a huge deal and go grab another "starting" QB somehow.
Frye-Anderson isnt exactly failing for the Browns right now.

If one of our guys is a Derek Anderson then we are in good shape.
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Old 03-01-2008   #318
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Its closer to trading your back-up pair of hands for body parts that you dont have.

i have the best body part analogy:

sage = a kidney

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Old 03-01-2008   #319
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
No, YOU guys are lobbying for David Carr II (Schaub), not I. LOL...I have seen a lot of backpeddling around here (on this thread) whereby a lot of posters are seemingly beginning to understand that we have TWO BACKUPS...not a backup and a proven starter, as a lot of you are trying to communicate. Schaub is no more a true starter than Sage.

If anything, Sage is running circles around Schaub--But that's only because he's been around this team and knows its system and the players' capabilities within the system...the best way to maximize EVERYONE'S talents and strengths during on-field play. Maybe Schaub needed a year under the belt, maybe he needed to get the first year over and done with. But I am still seeing some other qualities in Schaub that do not make me feel comfortable with him--And "No," hearing you guys repeat this mantra of "Schaub is the starter, Schaub is the starter, Schau is the starter" does not make those fears go away. It only makes me think of this: David Carr.

So the comparison you're trying to draw between me and Hulk75 is 180-degrees out of phase--It's YOU guys who are acting as if Matt Schaub (the NEW number 8 who got the big payday) can nevvvvver be criticized or held in any other view other than a glowing report.

I just want a true, bonafide open competition for the spot. There are three things that I think need to stop happening:

1. Playcalling that looks good on the opening drive and then fizzles to absolute predictable playcalling into the half and then no adjustments for the second half. How many of you sit there in the second quarter and you see the formation, down-and-distance, field position, and you KNOW what play is coming up? Exactly. And so does a veteran defensive coordinator.

2. No more of the "Wait until round 6 or 7 to find that 'diamond-in-the-rough running back'" which Shanahan and Kubiak think they can discover and pay cheaply for. Minnesota is proof positive that a great running back can help a bad or mildly average QB.

3. Here's the most frustrating thing that needs to STOP happening: The ridiculous and consistently failing approach by this team's upper management and coaching staff to think that we can tab a guy "the starter" and then that's just suddenly a magical cure to the QB problem here.

Sage would prolly flop if he were in a different system. Is it conceivable to you guys that *possibly* Sage has found the right system and players around him to fit his style of play? All the guy did was come in and save OUR season from being a losing season. Isn't that worth an open competition for once? Or will pride and contract dollars get in the way?

We have two backups. End of story. Use the words, the semantics, and whatever else you want...we don't have a starter. This is Frye-Anderson at the moment unless we pull a huge deal and go grab another "starting" QB somehow. Boyd, IMO, is someone who is intriguing...A Gerrard type of player who is mobile, strong, and waiting his turn. He moved the ball easily against us in the preseason game of 2007 vs. Arizona.

Anywho...I will lobby for the best backup to win the starting job.
Sorry GP but it is statements like that where I lose all respectability regarding a post. Not only is it not true but his INTs and the way he played the last two games doesn't show it. We went around and around with each other the last 5 weeks of the season and it seemed to sink in to you what the situation was. Its like you are ignoring it now and starting all over. There is no rationale regarding many of your thoughts. Again, I nailed you 3 times in our earlier discussions trying to make up facts that didn't exist regarding other QBs like the Browns QB, etc. I refuse to go around in circles with someone who spouts phrases like above and has shown in the past that will manufacture facts.

We can save some time and FACT responses by just rereading this thread...for anyone that cares and wants to see where GP is coming from....it is Hulk75 Part Two

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Sage

BTW, I like Sage alot and his play at times. But he does not make a QB controversy.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 03-01-2008 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 03-01-2008   #320
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
Please stop acting like there is no difference between a career, journeyman back-up and a young back-up who has potential to be a starter.

Several NFL anylast and Front Office personnal felt that Schaub had a chance to be a very good starter in this league; none feel that way about Sage. Even the Vikings are after him for cempetition/insurance reasons for a QB who lloks completly lost at times.
Slow down a second. Don't make me pull out the thread I created toward the end of the regular season whereby I documented two different analyst crews (IIRC) who were saying that there seems to be the case for an open competition.

They watched Schaub, off and on in a casual manner, and they saw Sage handle the team in the latter part of the season. So let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and start saying that Sage is a retard or something.

You guys have Sage Hate all over yourselves!

We have two backups, bro. No need to get in a hissy over this fact. We have a starter "in name only," but not necessarily in deed/action. There are durability issues with Schaub no matter how we explain how it happened.

May the best backup win the job, IMO. And even then...things are going to happen that might thrust one guy back into the starting role again. Its not a big deal, really. But to sit here and say that Matt Schaub has nailed down the starting spot...well, I just think we have two backups right now. And I don't know that being able to say "QB X is the starter" or "QB Y is the starter" is going to really do much, IMO.

We have two backups right now. Deal wit' it.
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