What is Sage's value?--Sage Frustrated

[J-Russ]

Dec. 27, 2007, 11:50PM
Though the Texans have faith in backup Sage Rosenfels, there's no doubt Matt Schaub is the starter when healthy
Let's recap: No QB quandary

By DALE ROBERTSON
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Further, Schaub's backup, Sage Rosenfels, created a measure of dissonance by emerging as a player to be taken seriously in debates about who should start next season.

Statistically, Rosenfels has delivered a better year, throwing for 14 touchdown passes to Schaub's nine despite significantly less playing time. Schaub's turnovers — nine interceptions plus three fumbles are a source of concern, too.

"He's got to protect the ball better," coach Gary Kubiak said.

Matt's still the man
Nonetheless, Kubiak and Schaub's teammates seem to be in full agreement that Schaub has done nothing to lose his grip on the team's reins because his body hasn't been overly protected, either. Matt's still the man, they say.

"Everybody knows Matt Schaub is our starting quarterback," guard Chester Pitts said. "We know Sage is the real deal, too. Any doubts anybody might have had about him are gone."

Star receiver Andre Johnson insisted: "There's no (quarterback) controversy here. Everyone gets on real well, including Matt and Sage with each other. We don't have any cliques. Everyone is on the same page."

Kubiak said he is only disappointed in Schaub's season becoming abbreviated, not in what the former Atlanta Falcon showed when he was healthy.

"I expected a lot from Matt," he said. "Just from being with him early in training camp I thought he would play well, which he did. And he continued to play well with injuries around him. We just have to get him out there for 16 weeks."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/5407815.html

Article I found from awhile back...

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by J-Russ

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/5407815.html

Article I found from awhile back...

................And what would you expect them to say publicly??

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

................And what would you expect them to say publicly??

"Whomever plays the best in preseason and training camp will be our day 1 starter, book it."

Seriously, it's grasping at straws when you're trying to convince people that what they say is not what they mean. If Sage plays his way into the starting role then great, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Schaub hasn't shown enough negatives to lose the starting job, and Sage hasn't shown enough positives to win it.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Of course, there are examples that support 2 qbs:

NYGiants in 91- Simms, Hostetler
Pittsburgh- Kordell and ODonnell, Batch and Rothlisburger
KC- Trent Green and what's his name
Phillie- McNabb and Feeley, Detmer
St Louis- Warner and Green


that's off the top of my head. I also think there may still be some long term doubt as to how Schaub will pan out. And, both contracts are up in '09... So, I think they'll be careful about losing Sage under they are sure of Schaub's durability. Sage did after all go 4-1 in 5 starts, not to mention what he almost did in the Tennessee game. He's a great bargain for us.

Montanna and Young.

[Ole Miss Texan]

It's Schaub's job to lose... end of story.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Of course, there are examples that support 2 qbs:

NYGiants in 91- Simms, Hostetler
Pittsburgh- Kordell and ODonnell, Batch and Rothlisburger
KC- Trent Green and what's his name
Phillie- McNabb and Feeley, Detmer
St Louis- Warner and Green


that's off the top of my head.

The first one that came to my mind was the Dolphin's perfect season and the second was the year the Ravens won with Dilfer and Banks starting.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by bah007

Big Ben says that experience isnt the only thing that matters.

Oooh don't go there.

"Big Ben" was the beneficiary of a stout running game and a strong defense.
We're working on the strong defense but we're quite a bit away from a "stout running game".

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

If we could trade Sage for a 3rd & used it to pick up Lito Sheppard how would the board feel about this?

I think I would breathe hard & make the trade.

Verrrry interesting....
IF we had absolute confirmation from the Iggles that they'd do the Lito Sheppard for our 3rd round pick deal, I might have to think about that for a bit....

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by mussop

Montanna and Young.

that is PRE-CAP era. The game has changed now. There is always the chance that you have a star lurking on your bench. Bledsoe-brady is the best example but your chances decrease significantly. Its not like Sage is going to become Manning next week. Wow.

I'm always amazed at how people I usually hold in high regard completely throw logic out the window. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE. That doesn't mean that you should try to be the exception and think that gives you the best shot at winning.

Mike

[gafftop]

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

[PHAROAH]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Verrrry interesting....
IF we had absolute confirmation from the Iggles that they'd do the Lito Sheppard for our 3rd round pick deal, I might have to think about that for a bit....

I would do that in a heartbeat Sage is mediocre and played good in a back up role and that's all he is a back up so get something while his stock is up.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by gafftop

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

Hmmmm, had we not made that deal in early 07, Schaub would have played out the year in Atlanta since Vick spent the season on suspension. And given that Vick is still a current resident of Hotel Fed, I doubt Schaub would even be available. God <<shudder>> we might be the ones stuck with Joey Harrington.

Why did we? that's a rhetorical question, right?

Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round?? Would I do it today? No. I know what I have in Schaub and I like it. And if we do that deal today, we have no starter (or quality back-up assuming Rosenfels starts) so we'd have to turn around and give up what we just dealt for to get an equal value replacement. IMHO, there are no stud QBs in this draft. Hell, I'd argue there really weren't any in last year's draft (and no, I'm not sold on Brady Quinn). If you make that deal today, you've weakened the team, not made it better.

[maddogmrb]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

It's Schaub's job to lose... end of story.

IMO, that's the problem. He was ANNOINTED the starter upon the trade without any real history to warrant it. Sage had better stats and better wins last year but, Schaub is still the starter? Shouldn't the coaches, team, and fans want the QB out there who gives them the best chance to win .... whichever one that is?

[GP]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

No we don't. I thought people had finally talked some sense into people after the last couple of games. Sage is not a starter and won't be our starter unless there is an ijury...period.

Yes we do.

Of the two QBs we have right now, we don't have a definitive starter.

We have two backups who are on the verge of being a starter. Schaub was not a starting QB with years of starting experience when we traded for him. People are PRETENDING that we acquired a starter in Matt Schaub. We didn't.

We speculated that he could start. A lot of Falcons fans tried to tell us he wouldn't be mobile enough...and we sorta' laughed them off. I see a guy who played the first game and looked sharp getting away from center--crisp steps, good footwork--and then he just began to slow down and the pass rush was on him wayyyy to quickly over the next few games.

Seeing Sage come in and rescue a season that was lloking to be flushed down the drain...well, it was a relief. The whole offense seemed to pick it up a step; there was a confidence in the huddle and on the field. Granted, Sage knows the offense and the players a lot better.

If anything makes me laugh, it's the "games" we play--and the games coaches play--when the proverbial "We don't have a QB controversy" comments start rolling out. As soon as THOSE comments start rolling out, then you absolutely 100% know you have a competition going on. You don't hear the words "QB controversy" in Indy or New England...it's not even in the dictionary in those two places.

When you have to openly "deny" that there's a QB controversy...there IS one. Period.

Geesh, I'd think that Texans fans wouldn't care WHO started as long as it was the MAN who deserved to have the gig. After 5 years of David Carr, we kinda' need to let go of this pipe dream of being able to pencil in a starter and defend him to no end. You guys do realize that you're doing the same thing with Schaub that a lot of us (including ME) did with David?

Sitting around trashing people like me who just want SOMEONE to win the job and do it consistently, and therefore defending a backup QB like Schaub as if he's been a starter for years, is puzzling.

I am a Texans fan. Not a Sage fan. Not a Schaub fan. I think they shold battle it out. And I think there's a lot of truth to what the Titans' Haynesworth said when he said "I bet Sage would have liked to have seen some of that starting money!" We rolled the dice on Schaub, and I supported it when it happened, but I'm retreating on it...I don't think Schaub is the guy for the long term. I just don't. Out of the two backup QBs we have, I'd say they're pretty even in the race for the starting job right now.

8-8 is a lot better than 2-14. Kubiak and Smith are doing a great job. I'm glad we have Sage-Schaub to argue about...and not who our next HC shold be and why our GM is such a moron. Thank God THOSE days are gone.

[maddogmrb]

Originally Posted by gafftop

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

I think ObsiWan missed the point. I don't believe there is another team in the league that would give us 2-2nd round picks and change places in the 1st round for Schaub now, and I don't think anyone else would've done it when we made the trade ...... we were just desperate. Okay, name me one other #2 QB in the league right now that you would give up what we did for Schaub.

[GP]

Originally Posted by maddogmrb

IMO, that's the problem. He was ANNOINTED the starter upon the trade without any real history to warrant it. Sage had better stats and better wins last year but, Schaub is still the starter? Shouldn't the coaches, team, and fans want the QB out there who gives them the best chance to win .... whichever one that is?

Careful now. You're approaching reason and logic. Back away now unless you want to be painted as a moron and put on ignore lists.

I agree with your post. And found it funny that you were posting this at the same time. You said what I said, but in less words. Nicely done.

[maddogmrb]

Originally Posted by GP

Careful now. You're approaching reason and logic. Back away now unless you want to be painted as a moron and put on ignore lists.

I agree with your post. And found it funny that you were posting this at the same time. You said what I said, but in less words. Nicely done.

GP, I was "painted" last year when I opposed the trade and said we gave up too much and when I said (as I am this year) that to be a "complete" team we need to be more aggressive in free agency - which it appears, even with more cap space, we are once again taking a passive approach.

[CloakNNNdagger]

GP, I tried give you rep but must spread.

[GP]

Originally Posted by maddogmrb

GP, I was "painted" last year when I opposed the trade and said we gave up too much and when I said (as I am this year) that to be a "complete" team we need to be more aggressive in free agency - which it appears, even with more cap space, we are once again taking a passive approach.

And I also said last year "I don't think McNair is in this to really challenge for a title. I think he's a 'business owner' who watches the bottom line and desires to keep this franchise as profitable as possible. We're the LA Clippers of the NFL."

For that, I was roasted and flamed to no end: "How dare you accuse the guy who brought NFL back to Houston as someone who doesn't want to win?!"

My response was: Well, let's see how much of this HUGE cap space we'll actually use. Clock is ticking...

I'm not a troll, but I've been painted as one. I just have no ability to go along with the majority anymore. We're better than we were before Kubiak and Smith. But we have a looooooong way to go.

Elevating Schaub to the throne is not in the overall best interests of this team, especially as we look at our recent past history with this sort of thinking. It's just not. True competition is what helps a team get BETTER.

[Errant Hothy]

Originally Posted by maddogmrb

IMO, that's the problem. He was ANNOINTED the starter upon the trade without any real history to warrant it. Sage had better stats and better wins last year but, Schaub is still the starter? Shouldn't the coaches, team, and fans want the QB out there who gives them the best chance to win .... whichever one that is?

Yup, Sage's 12 INTs were sure better then Schaub's 9...right?