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Old 02-29-2008   #181
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I feel for Sage. This was a real opportunity at a starting QB job. Sage will turn 30 next week, and he's not likely to get many more shots to become a starter. He still has two years @ $1.35 mil/year on his deal. While that's a lot of money to you & me, Sage is underpaid as a quality NFL backup QB. Andre Davis just got a $16 million deal as a kick returner and insurance policy to Andre Johnson.

But, the Texans can't give away assets. And a 3rd round pick is not a sure thing. It's said that judging a draft requires a 3 year perspective. For every Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, and Ellis Hobbs from the '05 class, you have a Andrew Walter, Ryan Moats, and Vernand Morency. A team that expects to contend for the playoffs needs a quality backup QB. That's worth more than a 3rd round pick. My hope is that Sage understands this, and comes back with the same enthusiasm and leadership he's shown the previous 2 seasons as a Texan. And I hope the front office recognizes his contribution, and gives the man a raise.
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Old 02-29-2008   #182
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Hoth-Boy you make some excellent points. I'm with you bro. Get something while we still hold the cards. His value will either drop next year or he's going to pack up his bags and leave town. Buy low sell high concept.
Count me in too. I've been meaning to respond to some back points Hoth but yeah the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team it seems.

It'd be worth it alone to me to make the trade for the third on the grounds of having Sage start in Minnesota and start hurling up INTs. Teams are going to be keying on the running game next year much as possible forcing the starting QB(whomever that is) to win the game for them. I don't think Sage can handle that regularly.

For every Rich Gannon there is a Sage. The guy hasn't been the victim of a getting behinda good QB. He's had the reins twice in his career and flopped. I think some people here have been forced to watch David Carr the bulk of the past 5 years have mistaken mediocre QB play for fantastic play.

Gus Ferotte or another journeyman QB could come in and do as well or better. Honestly this team could really use another third and Sage probably feels like he deserves a shot after performing....well enough. He's most likely going to leave after the year anyway. We might as well get what i think would be the best offer.
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Old 02-29-2008   #183
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I didn't see this posted, (apologies if it had been):

Quote:
Sage Rosenfels-QB- Texans Feb. 28 - 9:49 pm et

"Word out of Houston" is that the Vikings and Texans have broken off talks about a possible trade involving Sage Rosenfels.

At this point, the Vikings are offering a third-round pick and the Texans want a second-round. That's close enough that we figure they can settle their differences. Rosenfels is a great idea for Minnesota in a market that seemed empty of palatable options. Matt Schaub missed five games with injuries in 2007, so Houston may want to play it safe. The Minneapolis Star-Tribune suggests the Vikes may now turn their attention to J.P. Losman.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Sage Rosenfels | QB
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Old 02-29-2008   #184
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

My take on the QB in general is this:
- Do not take a QB with a high draft pick
- Do not overpay for the QB position in dollars or picks
- Kubiak's system will make anyone look good who is competent

A solid back up QB is a luxury few have, but should not be kept at the expense of the team's future by not addressing needs elsewhere.

I am not a QB guy, but I am about improving the OLine and the Secondary in a AFC South that has exploited this softness of ours for years.
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Old 02-29-2008   #185
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I feel for Sage. This was a real opportunity at a starting QB job. Sage will turn 30 next week, and he's not likely to get many more shots to become a starter. He still has two years @ $1.35 mil/year on his deal. While that's a lot of money to you & me, Sage is underpaid as a quality NFL backup QB. Andre Davis just got a $16 million deal as a kick returner and insurance policy to Andre Johnson.

But, the Texans can't give away assets. And a 3rd round pick is not a sure thing. It's said that judging a draft requires a 3 year perspective. For every Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, and Ellis Hobbs from the '05 class, you have a Andrew Walter, Ryan Moats, and Vernand Morency. A team that expects to contend for the playoffs needs a quality backup QB. That's worth more than a 3rd round pick. My hope is that Sage understands this, and comes back with the same enthusiasm and leadership he's shown the previous 2 seasons as a Texan. And I hope the front office recognizes his contribution, and gives the man a raise.
Not really. Andre Davis got paid 16 Mil to be our #2 WR and KR, and that is right in line with what #2 WR's make. You can argue that he isnt a #2, but someone else could argue that he is.
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Old 02-29-2008   #186
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Two thirds or a second gets it done in my mind.....

Our commitment is to build through the draft to do that we need the picks.
Agreed. I like Sage and love the stability that he brings, but this is the type of gamble that we need to take to make that next step. The thought of getting two third round picks and going from 2 to 4 first day players in the draft is exciting. Based on the track record, our front office could be bring in 4 impact players for next season.
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Old 02-29-2008   #187
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I would trade for a second if we had a solid veteran QB back up ready to sign. I am not sure any available would be able to take over the reins as Sage has done. Sage may not be worth a second to another team but he is to Houston. Age, contract (2 years left at very cheap $) attitude and history in our system adds up to a keeper.

A Stewart or Mendenhall @#18, Anthony Collins in 2nd as your LT would offer Schaub a better season especially in the new ZBS. A CB in third such as Charles Godfrey, Colt Brennan QB in 4th and CB/FS Darnell Terrell will be your FS at 6'"2 203lbs and 4.43 speed in 5th round. I would be ok with that. Cowboy CB Jacque Reeves might be a solid pick up in FA.
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Old 02-29-2008   #188
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

Sorry, I didn't read all 10 pages but if you get a 3rd here it allows you to get a pick..either #73 or #82. I'd assume #73 since the Texans want a 2nd in negotiations. Then you have #79. It gives you the flexibility in moving up to Rd 2 if there is a guy that has dropped. It also allows you a value pick to use if another team wants to move up in the 3rd...maybe you pick up an extra pick.

Right now we are at a time where people expect playoffs. Not many QBs make it a full season but it doesn't mean we can't find another backup that isn't good in Kubiak's sytem while we get some value that can help us build the playoff roster. That's my take.
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Old 02-29-2008   #189
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
Andre Davis got paid 16 Mil to be our #2 WR and KR, and that is right in line with what #2 WR's make. You can argue that he isnt a #2, but someone else could argue that he is.
Well, I'd like to hear that argument.

Before AJ went down with his injury, Davis wasn't even on the active roster on gameday. When Johnson returned, Davis caught 10 balls for 142 yards and zero TDs. Those aren't #2 WR numbers, due to the fact that Davis wasn't the #2 WR when AJ was healthy.

I'm not saying that Davis didn't step up when Johnson went down. He did, with 23 receptions, 441 yards, and 3 TDs over those 7 games. He also came through when Mathis came up lame (again). Davis earned his new deal, mainly as a kick returner. Just goes to show the value NFL teams are currently giving impact returners. My point is that if your kick returner and backup WR is given a substantial bump in salary, your quality #2 QB is due some consideration.
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Old 02-29-2008   #190
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

This is off topic so I apologize, but I love love LOVE watching Schaub to Johnson highlights- they are so pretty.
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Old 02-29-2008   #191
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Well, I'd like to hear that argument.

Before AJ went down with his injury, Davis wasn't even on the active roster on gameday. When Johnson returned, Davis caught 10 balls for 142 yards and zero TDs. Those aren't #2 WR numbers, due to the fact that Davis wasn't the #2 WR when AJ was healthy.

I'm not saying that Davis didn't step up when Johnson went down. He did, with 23 receptions, 441 yards, and 3 TDs over those 7 games. He also came through when Mathis came up lame (again). Davis earned his new deal, mainly as a kick returner. Just goes to show the value NFL teams are currently giving impact returners. My point is that if your kick returner and backup WR is given a substantial bump in salary, your quality #2 QB is due some consideration.
I didnt say I would make the argument Here is the other issue, the market dictates what you pay Free Agents and his salary is a little less per season than what some thought and right in line with what other WR's are going to make. The cap went up several million dollars so we all have to expect the salaries to go up too.

When Sage signed his deal there were alot of people on this board that thought we were paying him too much. And now we arent paying enough? I disagree. He is making almost 2 mil this season as a backup. that is prettty good in my book especially since he wont be on the field at all unless Schaub gets hurt.

In Davis' case he will be on the field regardless if AJ gets hurt or not.
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Old 02-29-2008   #192
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
This is off topic so I apologize, but I love love LOVE watching Schaub to Johnson highlights- they are so pretty.
Dude, if you DVR games, it's an offseason savior. I love watching games over and over. Plus you're able to evaluate players.
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Old 02-29-2008   #193
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Sorry, I didn't read all 10 pages but if you get a 3rd here it allows you to get a pick..either #73 or #82. I'd assume #73 since the Texans want a 2nd in negotiations. Then you have #79. It gives you the flexibility in moving up to Rd 2 if there is a guy that has dropped. It also allows you a value pick to use if another team wants to move up in the 3rd...maybe you pick up an extra pick.

Right now we are at a time where people expect playoffs. Not many QBs make it a full season but it doesn't mean we can't find another backup that isn't good in Kubiak's sytem while we get some value that can help us build the playoff roster. That's my take.
New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?
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Old 02-29-2008   #194
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?
First call is to Kelly Holcomb (sp?), same as it would have been if we had traded Sage.
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Old 02-29-2008   #195
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?
Or we pull a "Tejada trade"- Trade him for a 3rd or so, then a week later, reports come out the the Justice Department is going to question him about Steroids. Sage goes to prison and never plays a down for the vikings and we have their 3rd rounder. LOL
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Old 02-29-2008   #196
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

I'm willing to bet, that no matter what happens over the next 2 seasons, we ever get a better offer for Sage. Don't forget that the last time Sage was traded it was for a 7th.
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Old 02-29-2008   #197
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
First call is to Kelly Holcomb (sp?), same as it would have been if we had traded Sage.
IIRC, Kubiak gave alot of praise to Shane Boyd last season.

Or.....Bradley Van Pelt's readily available
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Old 02-29-2008   #198
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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IIRC, Kubiak gave alot of praise to Shane Boyd last season.

Or.....Bradley Van Pelt's readily available
I think Boyd is the back-up of the future, but I think he would really benefit from atleast another year as the 3rd QB.

Van Pelt will be cheaper then Sage as well.
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Old 02-29-2008   #199
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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I think Boyd is the back-up of the future, but I think he would really benefit from atleast another year as the 3rd QB.
I think you're probably correct Hoth, but it sure would've been nice to have that extra 3rd for Sage. Truthfully, last night when I heard about the offer I wasn't sure what to think. It's kind of a double edged sword.
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Old 02-29-2008   #200
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Default Re: Sage for Vikes 3rd rumor

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New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?
The same as you would if you traded him, find a backup that can play the system. Holcombe or whomever else may become available as cuts are made. That or you groom a younger guy. In my book this is the first season where you can honestly say Boom or Bust. There is no slap on the butt, "good job for 8-8" again. Getting a 3rd for Sage would be big in my book. I trust Smith to do something with it. If Schaub goes down, it most likely is going to be a tough season as it is...JMO.
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