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Old 03-24-2008   #221
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray to visit the Texans

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Sage isn’t going anywhere without our #1 QB proving he can remain healthy, AND our #3 QB proving himself in our system on our team.
I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking in such absolutes but that's just me. You may be right...maybe Sage isn't going anywhere, but your reasoning doesn't mean anything given recent history.

Seems like I remember some saying the same thing about Carr a year ago. Something to the effect of 'we will not get rid of Carr for an unproven back-up QB'.

Well, as we all know, not only did we get rid of him and acquire an unproven back-up, we gave up two 2nd round picks for the unproven back-up...mainly b/c of the talent evaluation of Smithiak which led them to believe Schaub was worth the risk. Now, we have this current scenario which leads many of us to believe we acquired Gray in order to deal Rosenfels. It is a risk letting go of a capable back-up, but apparently Smithiak feels that Gray can step into that role AND we can get an extra draft pick.

I guess what I'm saying is that I trust the current regime to make the correct decisions...and IMO it seems that they may be leaning towards trading Rosenfels. If so, judging by our front office's track record, I believe they will make the correct call.
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Old 03-24-2008   #222
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray to visit the Texans

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
The same general concept though. Insurance. If you have LT or Schaub go down, you have insurance that your season doesn't devolve into a Falcon/Dolphin-esque pile of goo. Yeah, most playoff teams don't rely on their backups, but a lot of those really awful teams have quarterbacks who go down and joke backups. Truly awful seasons aren't good for a franchise.

Rosenfels contract is attractive. Rosenfels has proven that he can move the ball, even with an offense with a wildly inconsistent running game. He's a good guy. He'd be a terrific guy to have as a starter if you draft a QB that you eventually want to groom for the starter's job.

So, with those factors, you would think you could get something for him from some of these teams whose fans are sick of ridiculously bad quarterback play.

I've never been one eager to trade Rosenfels, but having Gray on roster makes me a lot more comfortable with it.
One plus for Sage is that we don't have the talent across the board as the better teams in the league have. We have a few rising stars and 1-2 confirmed star players. If we lose our starting QB to injury, the drop off can't be compensated for as easily by having other star players pick up the slack. We MUST have a good back up QB in order to be competitive. When looking at trade value, IMO, you have to look at the value of a player to YOU over what the rest of the league values that player at. Sage may be worth a 3rd on the open market, but to the Texans, I would want an early to mid 2nd. He's more valuable to us than the Vikings. Schaub might've won the games that Sage did, but would Gray?
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Old 03-24-2008   #223
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

Gray for 600,000 $ is a much better deal than YKW for 1,000,000 $ . I wonder why the Giants did'nt go this route .

The Jags are a smashmouth team and if Gray wants to get paid learning the WCO for a year might be just the ticket .
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Old 03-24-2008   #224
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

Magic statement! "I'm friends with Andre Johnson." That'll do it! Look for this dude, who looks like a linebacker, to step up WHEN MS goes down!! Might be a good combo, eventually. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Sage to go anywhere, BUT, AJ does seem to have some pull.
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Old 03-24-2008   #225
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
Gray for 600,000 $ is a much better deal than YKW for 1,000,000 $ . I wonder why the Giants did'nt go this route .
I think you can chalk that up to the GOBC. Palmer was familiar with YKW and not so with Gray. Even in the NFL (maybe especially in the NFL), it's who you know that counts.
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Old 03-24-2008   #226
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I think you can chalk that up to the GOBC. Palmer was familiar with YKW and not so with Gray. Even in the NFL (maybe especially in the NFL), it's who you know that counts.

shouldn't it be GDBC club?

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Old 03-24-2008   #227
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Besides, somehow, I don't think that the Texans would be interested in taking on the risk of a big contract (and it will ultimately be a big contract)
No, if traded for it will be a very cheap contract through 2013. If traded, the Texans would not be responsible for any bonuses already paid and starting salaries of 2008: $3.25 million, 2009: $2.9 million, 2010: $4.6 million, 2011: $4.9 million, 2012: $4.5 million, 2013: $4 million are cheap for a LT.

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Valid concern.
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Old 03-24-2008   #228
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

One thing out of this situation that I think is pretty hilarious... and shows quite a difference between our F.O. and our division rival Jags F.O.

Here are the details for Cleo Lemon's Jax contract:

Quote:
2/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $8.1 million contract. The deal included an initial roster bonus of $2.95 million. Another $750,000 million is available through incentives. 2008: $605,000, 2009: $1.695 million, 2010: $2.4 million.
We pick up their ex-#2, who has already proved he can win with that team - for 635K. Awesome.
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Old 03-24-2008   #229
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
One thing out of this situation that I think is pretty hilarious... and shows quite a difference between our F.O. and our division rival Jags F.O.

Here are the details for Cleo Lemon's Jax contract:



We pick up their ex-#2, who has already proved he can win with that team - for 635K. Awesome.
Rick Smith has the Texans going in the opposite direction it seems, good point
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Old 03-24-2008   #230
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
Here are the details for Cleo Lemon's Jax contract
Or compare Sage at 4 years, $7 mil with Cleo at 3 years, $8.1 mil.
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Old 03-24-2008   #231
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.

Who here wish's the Astros would have traded Brad Lidge after 05. I do.
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Old 03-24-2008   #232
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

Quinn came in as the #3 QB, To learn the system, Gary Will not release Sage for anything less than a two, and thaty is even iffy. Sage is old hand at this system and is highly regarded as a backbone on this team. There have been very few even pony up a 3 for a back up QB to the texans so if anything happens it will be on draft day, The probable thing not being Sage but the aquisition of a LT and Corner in the first twop picks.
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Old 03-24-2008   #233
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by Bubbajwp View Post
If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.

Who here wish's the Astros would have traded Brad Lidge after 05. I do.
Hindsight sees 20/20. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. What IF we trade Sage this year, Schaub gets hurt or his shoulder isn't ready to go, THEN what? Are you gonna wish we hadn't traded Sage? I am.
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Old 03-24-2008   #234
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

The other way to look at it is Gray really was brought in to be the #3 just in case Schaub either goes down with injury or is ineffective. At that point during the 2009 offseason cutting Schaub and making Sage the starter with Gray as the #2 with a full year in the system.

I doubt it though. I see a trade coming on draft day.

Three QB's is a waist of a roster spot. Especially if you think that the Texans will cary 3 to 4 RB's on the active roster. Of course I am of the opinion that Sage will be gone and Green with be cut. Or maybe traded along with Sage.....
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Old 03-24-2008   #235
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

Owen Daniels is our #3 QB come draft day.
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Old 03-24-2008   #236
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

http://vikingsmessageboard.com/viewt...r=asc&start=30

viking fans are ok with #3 but don't want to give up #2

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...?topic=43468.0
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Old 03-24-2008   #237
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Hindsight sees 20/20. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. What IF we trade Sage this year, Schaub gets hurt or his shoulder isn't ready to go, THEN what? Are you gonna wish we hadn't traded Sage? I am.
Thats kinda funny. Because for some odd reason me and my brother have always called my aunt deb, Uncle Deb and I dont think she has any balls.

LOL

For the rest of your post. No im not gonna regret trading Sage for two major reasons. If Schaub does get hurt

A. We most likely wont make the playoffs.
and
B. If we somehow magically do I dont think we willwin the Superbowl with Sage at QB.

Also we would get to see what Gray can really do under Kubiak. + extra draft picks.
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Old 03-24-2008   #238
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Talking Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

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Originally Posted by Bubbajwp View Post
If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.
He's a backup QB - if he doesn't play, the mystique goes higher. There is not nearly enough talent in the NFL QB ranks, so if he goes next year without playing much, other teams will still remember his '07 season. In other words, what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Look at Schaub, he'd started all of 2 games when we traded for him and his record in those 2 games was 0-2. Additionally, the fact that the two games he started were in 2004 and 2005 didn't cause the NFL to forget about him after a season of riding the pine in 2006. While we were obviously the last team to attempt to acquire him from the Falcons, we were far from the first. The level of interest in Sage isn't as great, but neither are the stakes in terms of the compensation he'd bring.

I still think there's a pretty darn good chance that they trade him between now and whenever the '08 trading deadline is, but I don't think Schaub staying healthy hurts Sage's value at all - it may actually have the opposite effect.
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Old 03-24-2008   #239
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

Here's a question I have for those buying the company (and the Chronic's) line of the Texans going with 3 QBs in 2008:

Why didn't Smith & Kubiak bring in Quinn Gray earlier?

Free agency started 3 weeks ago. Gray could have been scooped up by another team in the mean time. I'm pretty sure he visited a couple of teams. And the Texans haven't brought in another QB other than Gray since FA began.

Here's the Sage/Quinn timeline:

2/28 - Don Banks of SI.com quotes a "league source" that the Vikings offered the Texans a 3rd round pick for Rosenfels. Houston is reported to be seeking a 2nd rounder.
2/29 - The Star Tribune reports that the talks between the Texans and Vikings had stalled, with Minnesota possibly turning to Bills backup QB J.P. Losman.
3/18 - The Star Tribune reports that Gus Frerotte will visit Minnesota to discuss the backup QB job.
3/19 - PFT reports that Gray will visit Houston.
3/20 - Frerotte leaves Minnesota without a contract.
3/24 - The Chronic reports that Gray is signed to a one year deal.

I don't know what the next timeline entry will be. But, I see a connection between what the Vikings have done, and the Quinn signing. My feeling is that once Frerotte made his visit, the Texans caved in to the Vikings' offer of the 3rd round pick. Which in turn, had Rick Smith on the horn to Drew Rosenhaus (Quinn's agent). It wouldn't surpise me if the Vikings aren't trying to work an extension with Rosenfels, right now. Pure speculation on my part. Tell me why I'm wrong.
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Old 03-24-2008   #240
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Default Re: QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans

Gray's stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/quinngray...s?id=GRA766862

sage's stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/sagerosen...s?id=ROS396938

comparable, and sage has been slightly more accurate in his career

so if we get the value that we want, i am putting my trust in Kubiak to help Gray out more due to working with Kubiak and Shanahan

If we don't trade sage I am not going to worry about it

it is one of those things that if Matt doesn't get hurt, we will be saying "Why didn't we gain an extra pick?" if we trade him and matt gets hurt and gray underperforms we will Question the trade and (depending on the rookie and how he is doing on the team) the rookie
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