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Old 12-08-2004   #21
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JJ Arrington is my candidate (RB that is). 1845 yrds, 7.0 avg, 14 TDs..played big in big games, most consistent (11 straight 100 yrd games, 7 - 150+ yrd games, scored in 9 of 11 games (3 multiple TD games). On a top team, in a top division. Carried team when star QB struggled.


I agree on JJ Arrington, he gets absolutely no play in the Heisman consideration.
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Old 12-09-2004   #22
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Benson will not win it strictly based upon the OU game.

Benson is more deserving than Peterson IMO. Peterson has been up and down from week to week and has a good passing game. Benson has had only one "off" week (he still got 92 yards) against OU with almost no semblance of a passing game for much of the season.

That said, I think Leinart deserves the Heisman.

Here is what I think the Heisman should be:
Who adds the most to their team? Basically, replace the player with their backup and how would the team perform? Isn't that what the Heisman should be about? Clearly the Horns would suffer more without Benson than the Sooners would without Peterson.
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Old 12-09-2004   #23
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I'd vote for Jason White. Shame Benson wasn't nominated though; he deserved to be.
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Old 12-09-2004   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
Here is what I think the Heisman should be:
Who adds the most to their team? Basically, replace the player with their backup and how would the team perform? Isn't that what the Heisman should be about? Clearly the Horns would suffer more without Benson than the Sooners would without Peterson.
I thought it was supposed to be the best college player. IMO there is a difference between MVP and best player. The MVP is the person you described. The best player is just that, the best player regardless of whether his back up could fill is fantastic or poor. A lot of times it may be the same person, but not necessarily.
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Old 12-09-2004   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMc
Since we are on RBs:

Benson..no, not even the best player on his team...that would be DJ!

Peterson has solid numbersdespite the fact that OU spreads the ball....Benson is the main focus of UT....don't even mention VYoung!

JJ Arrington is my candidate (RB that is). 1845 yrds, 7.0 avg, 14 TDs..played big in big games, most consistent (11 straight 100 yrd games, 7 - 150+ yrd games, scored in 9 of 11 games (3 multiple TD games). On a top team, in a top division. Carried team when star QB struggled.

It all depends on the criteria you set. Is it the QB of the top team? Best player overall (no matter position, class, or team/conference)?

I would love to see both pairs from USC & OU split the votes, and Alex Smith win it. That guy IS the reason Utah is where they are, not so much the coach as it is the player executing the plays.

Look at Alex Smith's numbers:

Passing:
2624 yrds,
66% comp
28 TD
4 Int
174.9 rating

Rushing:
120- 563 yrds (4.7 avg)
10 TDs

Team is 11-0 ranked in top 10 (BCS & Polls).

To me, he is the best player, hands down.

As for the West Coast media...come on, everyone knows that the voting lies with the East Coast!
Peterson had great numbers despite the fact OU spreads the ball? Look, either you get the carries or you don't. Peterson (314 carries) got the carries. Having a QB (White) representing your team in New York as well only shows that you had a lot of support in getting those numbers. Quick, name any level of post-season award that Vince Young has been named to.

I agree what you said about DJ and Arrington. The fact that none of the 3 are going to New York speaks volumes about what the award has become.

Give me:

Cedric Benson
Derrick Johnson
Braylon Edwards
JJ Arrington
Marcus McNeill

And we'd kick the **** out of the actual 5 Heisman finalists.
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Old 12-09-2004   #26
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The award is almost always given the a RB or QB on an undefeated or one-loss team. That isn't necessarily the best player.

I was happy when Charles Woodson won it. It showed they were willing to look outside the skill positions to find the best player. That seems like ancient history now.
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Old 12-09-2004   #27
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Yeah but Woodson also played special teams and WR. He would not have sniffed the award had he not played those roles.
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Old 12-09-2004   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Yeah but Woodson also played special teams and WR. He would not have sniffed the award had he not played those roles.
Agreed. The award is a joke IMO. I prefer the Butkus, Lombardi, Doak Walker, etc. The Heisman is the most political award in all of sports.
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Old 12-09-2004   #29
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Huge, you do not think Alex Smith is deserving?? Come on! Of the 5, he would get my vote. Benson did himself in with all the "off-field" problems. Now I know you are a UT fan, but don't be such a homer. Benson is great and all, but the award is for the best college player...he is not even the best player on his team...or in his conference....how is he even the slightest bit deserving of the Heisman?

Without Alex Smith, Utah would be.....BYU or Utah St!
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Old 12-09-2004   #30
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Benson won the Doak Walker award.
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Old 12-09-2004   #31
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Top 3 in rushing.
Top 3 in scoring.
Team is playing in a BCS bowl.
Most valuable player on his team.

Does that not qualify you for the Heisman? If not, what else would he have needed to do?

Off the field problems? Like what? There wasn't any mention of off the field problems when he was considered a leading Heisman contender before UT lost to OU. They can get by w/o Derrick Johnson. W/o Benson, true freshman Ramonce Taylor would've been starting. You can dispute this is if you want. But that would be more of a display of ignorance than bias on your part.

Do I think Smith is deserving? Yes. But I don't think he should win it. Did you have BJ Symons as your Heisman favorite last season?

And I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with current events but the Heisman hasn't been awarded to the best college football player for some time now. Sure, that's who it's supposed to be awarded...but it's lost it's meaning quite some time ago.
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Old 12-10-2004   #32
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So why is it that Smith should not win?

Crazy numbers do not always equate to winning the Heisman (Symons)....it has a lot more to do with how well the team performed based on "your" presence. Without Alex Smith, Utah is nothing.

Without Benson, UT is fine....they have a solid OL, and a QB that would do all the running for them. Also, as many point out, the offense as struggled some this year, it was the defense that kept them in the games late (hence all the come-from-behind wins. I'm sure UT has no RB candidate if Benson goes down. I think the breaking and entering, and the other altercations would have led Mack to have a "Plan B". They seem to pluck pretty good RBs year after year. The main reason Benson went to UT was because Mack "promised" him he'd start from day one.


Huge--- Marcus McNeil? The OT from Auburn?
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Last edited by MikeMc; 12-10-2004 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 12-10-2004   #33
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Quote:
So why is it that Smith should not win?
Other than there being more deserving players, there's no reason he shouldn't. Many will use his conference and his lack of playing top competition as a reason for not giving him their vote. And I'm okay with that because it's absolutely true. This makes the other players more deserving.

Quote:
Without Benson, UT is fine....they have a solid OL, and a QB that would do all the running for them. Also, as many point out, the offense as struggled some this year, it was the defense that kept them in the games late (hence all the come-from-behind wins. I'm sure UT has no RB candidate if Benson goes down. I think the breaking and entering, and the other altercations would have led Mack to have a "Plan B". They seem to pluck pretty good RBs year after year. The main reason Benson went to UT was because Mack "promised" him he'd start from day one.
Like I said, you could debate this if you want but you'd come out looking pretty dumb for doing so. Mission accomplished.

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Huge--- Marcus McNeil? The OT from Auburn?
That would be him.
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Old 12-10-2004   #34
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great debate guys & gals. the consensous in the media is that Matt Leinart will win & Jason White should win. With that said the understory of this board seems to be who you would like to see win. Many people have voiced a strong arguement, supported with plenty of stats for Cedric Benson & Alex Smith as worthy shoulda coulda would like to see win the Heisman nominies.

as HUGE accuratly states: "And I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with current events but the Heisman hasn't been awarded to the best college football player for some time now. Sure, that's who it's supposed to be awarded...but it's lost it's meaning quite some time ago".

looking at the best College Football Player (with a few exceptions over the years) usually do not win the Heisman but are merely window dressing in NY then go on to be drafted ahead of and enjoy a more successful NFL career.

therefore its not hard to imagine both Cedric Benson & Alex Smith becoming more successful Pros than either White or Leinart
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Old 12-10-2004   #35
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I was just looking over the history of Heisman winners and noticed something odd.

Apparently the Heisman folks have grown so accustomed to giving the award to an offensive player (because it's simply impossible for the best player in the country to be a defensive player...right?) that they list every player's position as either "QB", "RB", or "WR". And many times, they've got the wrong offensive position for the player. Here's an example:

2001 Heisman voting
1st Eric Crouch Nebraska Sr. QB
2nd Rex Grossman Florida So. QB
3rd Ken Dorsey Miami (Fl.) Jr. QB
4th Joey Harrington Oregon Sr. RB
5th David Carr Fresno State Sr. RB
6th Antwaan Randle El Indiana So. QB
7th Roy Williams Oklahoma Sr. WR
8th Bryant McKinnie Miami (Fl.) Sr. QB
9th Dwight Freeney Syracuse Jr. RB
10th Julius Peppers North Carolina Jr. RB

Those people sure are on top of their game.
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Old 12-10-2004   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Did you have BJ Symons as your Heisman favorite last season?
yes

started for the first time as a senior and set NCAA single-season records for passing yards (5,833), most games with 400 yards in total offense (9), most yards in total offense (5,976), most passing yards per game (448.79), and most yards in total offense per game (459.69)…completed 529 of 822 attempts with 59 TDs

watch the Tech game at Ole Miss
"well its better than 660, but not as good as 662"
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Old 12-10-2004   #37
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So then you're aware of why he didn't win...right?
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Old 12-10-2004   #38
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that doesn't make it right
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Old 12-10-2004   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hetero doxy
please. benson is a stone-cold criminal.
Thanks for elaborating. Since I'm using sarcasm, I'll ask again. Like what?

Quote:
that doesn't make it right
It's not right that a QB with 822 passing attempts didn't win the Heisman?
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Old 12-10-2004   #40
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huge,
are you talking quantity vs quality
59 TDs should count for something, or is that too many

here's one for you

a legitimate Doak Walker winner
196 carries for 1582 yards 24 TDs 8.1 ypc
32 catches 334 yards 4 TDs 10.4 avg
1 TD every 8 carries

a "media" Doak Walker winner
303 carries for 1764 yards 19 TDs 5.8 ypc
22 catches 179 yards 1 TD 8.1 avg
1 TD every 16 carries

I almost laugh at this silliness

Last edited by astrofan; 12-11-2004 at 01:25 AM.
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