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Old 03-12-2008   #41
El Tejano
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by tulexan View Post
I don't get the love for Taylor. He played well in one game against one of the worst teams in the league. Kubiak has said that we will be picking up a young back who will be with the team for a long time. That sounds like a 1st or 3rd round pick to me.

He also played very well against that Colts and was a perfect compliment to Dayne in helping us beat the Colts for the first time.
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Old 03-12-2008   #42
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

Things I contemplate;

John and I both pass out information to confuse the enemy. We don't mean to it just happens.

John is into Hollywood which is disgusting, unless I had a chance to be into Hollywood and then that would be fantastic!

John McClain is someone I read and listen to because I enjoy hearing about the Texans even if info turns out to be wrong. Reminds me of some of the posters on MB. At least he gets paid to ramble. I don't.

If Chris WIlliams LT is there at 18; I'd select him as a potential 12 year starter compared to Mendenhall or Stewart possible 8 year starters.

If Williams not there and M. or S. is I'd go with the RB as possible franchise type players as I don't see another need position player there that might be "franchise type". I think Jenkins and McKelvin will be gone. DRC and Cason should be there but not a candidate imo.

I am open to trade down under certain circumstances but only if Williams, M. or S. not available. The three are premium guys & I want one.

We should be able to get a LT, CB and RB in draft without trade.

I also hope Taylor is great; but we have nothing to base that on but Kube's feelings and that is enough for me to give him a shot called TC.

If Kubes thinks Taylor is special, he must really like Walker.

I think Walker, Green and Taylor will battle in TC and if it goes as I believe, Green will be a June first cut unless an unbelievable offer for him is received.

A 100 yds per game RB that moves the chains can make a defense a lot better.
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Old 03-12-2008   #43
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Things I contemplate;

John and I both pass out information to confuse the enemy. We don't mean to it just happens.

John is into Hollywood which is disgusting, unless I had a chance to be into Hollywood and then that would be fantastic!

John McClain is someone I read and listen to because I enjoy hearing about the Texans even if info turns out to be wrong. Reminds me of some of the posters on MB. At least he gets paid to ramble. I don't.

If Chris WIlliams LT is there at 18; I'd select him as a potential 12 year starter compared to Mendenhall or Stewart possible 8 year starters.

If Williams not there and M. or S. is I'd go with the RB as possible franchise type players as I don't see another need position player there that might be "franchise type". I think Jenkins and McKelvin will be gone. DRC and Cason should be there but not a candidate imo.

I am open to trade down under certain circumstances but only if Williams, M. or S. not available. The three are premium guys & I want one.

We should be able to get a LT, CB and RB in draft without trade.

I also hope Taylor is great; but we have nothing to base that on but Kube's feelings and that is enough for me to give him a shot called TC.

If Kubes thinks Taylor is special, he must really like Walker.

I think Walker, Green and Taylor will battle in TC and if it goes as I believe, Green will be a June first cut unless an unbelievable offer for him is received.

A 100 yds per game RB that moves the chains can make a defense a lot better.
I would never pencil in a RB for the next 8 years. Thats the reason I would almost never take one in the first round, the lifespan is way to short. You get 8 years if your lucky.

As for the second part, I think a playmaking shutdown corner can make an offense look alot better as well, for qwhatever thats worth.
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Old 03-12-2008   #44
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Things I contemplate;

John and I both pass out information to confuse the enemy. We don't mean to it just happens.

John is into Hollywood which is disgusting, unless I had a chance to be into Hollywood and then that would be fantastic!

John McClain is someone I read and listen to because I enjoy hearing about the Texans even if info turns out to be wrong. Reminds me of some of the posters on MB. At least he gets paid to ramble. I don't.

If Chris WIlliams LT is there at 18; I'd select him as a potential 12 year starter compared to Mendenhall or Stewart possible 8 year starters.

If Williams not there and M. or S. is I'd go with the RB as possible franchise type players as I don't see another need position player there that might be "franchise type". I think Jenkins and McKelvin will be gone. DRC and Cason should be there but not a candidate imo.

I am open to trade down under certain circumstances but only if Williams, M. or S. not available. The three are premium guys & I want one.

We should be able to get a LT, CB and RB in draft without trade.

I also hope Taylor is great; but we have nothing to base that on but Kube's feelings and that is enough for me to give him a shot called TC.

If Kubes thinks Taylor is special, he must really like Walker.

I think Walker, Green and Taylor will battle in TC and if it goes as I believe, Green will be a June first cut unless an unbelievable offer for him is received.

A 100 yds per game RB that moves the chains can make a defense a lot better.
I hope Williams is there too. Far as if not; based on the past 2 first rounders that at least looked to have the bigger long term upside DRC is that guy.Given that Bennett and Reeves are healthy to start the season DRC wouldn't be immediately pressed into action.

All things considered IMO our best value would be OL or DRC.
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Old 03-12-2008   #45
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Two different scenarios TC. Davis won the starting job in training camp and was named the starter going into the season opener. Chris Taylor was cut, signed, cut, signed, injured. Davis was drafted, won the job then got hurt. We shouldn't count on getting lucky and finding a Davis. Worst case you need two good legit RBs in the league now (which would be 2 more than we currently have).

Kubiak's kind word towards our RBs has been a death wish so far. Next thing we know Taylor will also be out on a swing set getting high. Hopefully not though. My 2 cents...
I guess you didn't pay attention to how injured Davis was in college. Injuries happen in football--it's one of the things that makes it difficult to evaluate players.

Kubiak has seen a lot of Taylor and most of us haven't. What was seen in camp did look pretty promising though so I guess that is where a lot of the praise comes from.

Actually, I love that Kubiak publicly supports players who are working hard and dogs players who haven't. What's the harm in that sort of talk? It let's people know that if you are on the roster and working hard, that coach has your back.

It doesn't mean a thing as it relates to what they end up wanting to do. It's just talk. And maybe a prep for fans to not necessarily thinking running back just because that is one of the flashier needs.

Kubiak is really trying to promote the belief in the locker room that it doesn't matter where or if you are drafted, but instead the quality of the work you do for the team. It's one of Kubiak's core beliefs, and some of the most successful players who played for Denver when he was there weren't drafted particularly highly.

Actually, it wouldn't suprise me if the Texans took running back in the lower rounds (like a Terrell Davis), mostly because of the system that Alex Gibbs is going to run. They value backs differently than a lot of the league does, and this will be the first year where they will be running the Denver style ZBS.

Kubiak has shown that he has a lot of confidence that his system will work when he has his type of system players. Not picking Reggie Bush showed that sort of stones--Bush would have been the exactly wrong back for what the Texans want to do. In some sense, picking up Carr's option (which meant passing on Vince Young) is another illustration of that. He thought that Carr had the physical tools--being able to do the bootleg etc--but didn't know about all the missing tools in Carr's shed because it was not easy to discern given the mess of the scheme and all the other problems with the Texans.

Vince Young would have been an awful fit for the Texans offense. I like Vince and his potential, and I don't want to turn this into that sort of thread, but I am just talking about this from the standpoint of how Kubiak values fit for the offensive side of the ball. That he has a specific philosophy that he has a lot of confidence in, and that this may sometimes lead to draft picks that are contrary to what draft boards say.
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Old 03-12-2008   #46
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
I would never pencil in a RB for the next 8 years. Thats the reason I would almost never take one in the first round, the lifespan is way to short. You get 8 years if your lucky.

As for the second part, I think a playmaking shutdown corner can make an offense look alot better as well, for qwhatever thats worth.
12 for LT starter or 8 for Rb starter is a stretch but not out of question. Point is OL should last longer USUALLY than RB. IMO there will be no "shut down CB" at #18 or later. That's why I go with Mendenhall or Stewart if Williams not avail. I think Lance Zerline said same thing on his thread recently.
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Old 03-12-2008   #47
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I hope Williams is there too. Far as if not; based on the past 2 first rounders that at least looked to have the bigger long term upside DRC is that guy.Given that Bennett and Reeves are healthy to start the season DRC wouldn't be immediately pressed into action.

All things considered IMO our best value would be OL or DRC.
AT #18 I do not want a long term upside guy. I want a player that I think can start ASAP and definely before game 8.
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Old 03-12-2008   #48
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I guess you didn't pay attention to how injured Davis was in college. Injuries happen in football--it's one of the things that makes it difficult to evaluate players.

Kubiak has seen a lot of Taylor and most of us haven't. What was seen in camp did look pretty promising though so I guess that is where a lot of the praise comes from.

Actually, I love that Kubiak publicly supports players who are working hard and dogs players who haven't. What's the harm in that sort of talk? It let's people know that if you are on the roster and working hard, that coach has your back.

It doesn't mean a thing as it relates to what they end up wanting to do. It's just talk. And maybe a prep for fans to not necessarily thinking running back just because that is one of the flashier needs.

Kubiak is really trying to promote the belief in the locker room that it doesn't matter where or if you are drafted, but instead the quality of the work you do for the team. It's one of Kubiak's core beliefs, and some of the most successful players who played for Denver when he was there weren't drafted particularly highly.

Actually, it wouldn't suprise me if the Texans took running back in the lower rounds (like a Terrell Davis), mostly because of the system that Alex Gibbs is going to run. They value backs differently than a lot of the league does, and this will be the first year where they will be running the Denver style ZBS.

Kubiak has shown that he has a lot of confidence that his system will work when he has his type of system players. Not picking Reggie Bush showed that sort of stones--Bush would have been the exactly wrong back for what the Texans want to do. In some sense, picking up Carr's option (which meant passing on Vince Young) is another illustration of that. He thought that Carr had the physical tools--being able to do the bootleg etc--but didn't know about all the missing tools in Carr's shed because it was not easy to discern given the mess of the scheme and all the other problems with the Texans.

Vince Young would have been an awful fit for the Texans offense. I like Vince and his potential, and I don't want to turn this into that sort of thread, but I am just talking about this from the standpoint of how Kubiak values fit for the offensive side of the ball. That he has a specific philosophy that he has a lot of confidence in, and that this may sometimes lead to draft picks that are contrary to what draft boards say.
TC will you or someone else that has a better grasp of the ZBS suggest RBs that may be available in 4th round or later that would be a good fit in ZBS and not leave us scratching our head for a power back? Slaton would be the type of back imo that might have burst and speed for ZBS but not last a season in NFL. I see Forte or Kevin Smith maybe in third that would fit?
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Old 03-12-2008   #49
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
TC will you or someone else that has a better grasp of the ZBS suggest RBs that may be available in 4th round or later that would be a good fit in ZBS and not leave us scratching our head for a power back? Slaton would be the type of back imo that might have burst and speed for ZBS but not last a season in NFL. I see Forte or Kevin Smith maybe in third that would fit?
As I haven't seen the players in college play, and I am probably not the best person in the world at evaluating NFL running backs, unlike various internet peoples, I won't pretend that I am an expert of who they are going to take.

I will say that I am an expert at knowing that a lot of draft sites are crap.

Though I think internet resources are helpful on the draft, I think there is a ton of misinformation out there. Every player has strength and weaknesses, and it is hard to figure out sometimes what is real and not. If you look at draft information in hindsight, it can be absolutely laughable.

Many of the websources basically plagerize each other. A lot of the information that was out there on DeMeco Ryans was absolutely wrong. For example, though he isn't the biggest guy in the world, his important combine measurables were actually really good despite reports saying that he wasn't athletic. Garbage.

I will be posting a FanHouse post in a little bit with some useful resources to check out about who will be available and what is valued in a Denver style running game.
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Old 03-12-2008   #50
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

Another mention from the chron but not by McClain, but from Manfull.

http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans...pcoming_s.html
Quote:
Bruener will be key in an offense that is determined to run the ball this year. With a healthy Ahman Green and Chris Taylor, the Texans could surprise some teams this season. Those two, coupled with a strong group of wide receivers, should make for a formidable group.
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Old 03-12-2008   #51
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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AT #18 I do not want a long term upside guy. I want a player that I think can start ASAP and definely before game 8.
Weren't Mario and Amobi both? Was just pointing out the history of first rounders under Kubiak. Both have had long term upside.

I'm not one of the people that say we won't go with a RB in the first. Mendenhall from the looks won't make it to us at 18 and while I have nothing against Stewart I just think we'd be better set using a later pick especially with a deep class at RB. Forte should be there in the third, despite what some people might think about him Slaton will be there, Allen Patrick is someone I'd like to see or OSU's Dantrell Savage.

Much as i like Bennett he doesn't have the upside of Cromartie and what's really digging away in my mind is Dunta's health especially since he will be starting the season on PUP(not to mention long term). Want to beat the top teams in the AFC or NFC? We better have 3 good CBs.

Far as OL goes Would be pleased if Willaims is there or maybe we take a flyer on Alberts. Sam Baker has only been pushed back because of a top heavy LT class.
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Old 03-12-2008   #52
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Weren't Mario and Amobi both? Was just pointing out the history of first rounders under Kubiak. Both have had long term upside.

I'm not one of the people that say we won't go with a RB in the first. Mendenhall from the looks won't make it to us at 18 and while I have nothing against Stewart I just think we'd be better set using a later pick especially with a deep class at RB. Forte should be there in the third, despite what some people might think about him Slaton will be there, Allen Patrick is someone I'd like to see or OSU's Dantrell Savage.

Much as i like Bennett he doesn't have the upside of Cromartie and what's really digging away in my mind is Dunta's health especially since he will be starting the season on PUP(not to mention long term). Want to beat the top teams in the AFC or NFC? We better have 3 good CBs.

Far as OL goes Would be pleased if Willaims is there or maybe we take a flyer on Alberts. Sam Baker has only been pushed back because of a top heavy LT class.
Thanks for response. Mario and Okoye both were starters not long term hopefuls. Williams had 4 sacks and played hurt, If not injured could maybe had 6-8. Point is we need LT, CB and RB imo that start and I really don't care what round. I do not want to pass on Cason for example that many say could start day one for Cromartie who starts game 12. I don't want to pass on Stewart and hope that no one drafts Forte before us. I want to fill a need position with the best player available.
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Old 03-12-2008   #53
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

Here's my ZBS/RB write up. It's a review for some of you, but maybe it has a few things you might not have thought about:

Houston Texans to Draft Running Back, But Which One?

Quote:
Bruener will be key in an offense that is determined to run the ball this year. With a healthy Ahman Green and Chris Taylor, the Texans could surprise some teams this season. Those two, coupled with a strong group of wide receivers, should make for a formidable group.
Yup, and with peace in the middle east, maybe my taxes would go down.

If the sun shown at night, it would be bright at midnight.

I'm not sure that there are great reasons to think that Green will be healthy.

And Taylor is a question mark. A hard working question mark but still a question mark.

If Chris Taylor and Ahman Green end up being the plan on what we are depending on to surprise people next year, I am going to smack someone in the face. I share Bruener's optimism for next year, but mostly because I think that the Texans are going to do a lot of things to help the running game next year, and it isn't going to be just depending on that Green and Taylor might be healthy. That is gravy. That ain't the meat.

I expect that there are going to be a ton of guys competing for the running back spot. Whoever they can find that they think might work. And whoever kicks the most ass and survives will be the man. Taylor and Green might not even be the final candidates for that spot.
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Old 03-12-2008   #54
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Thanks for response. Mario and Okoye both were starters not long term hopefuls. Williams had 4 sacks and played hurt, If not injured could maybe had 6-8. Point is we need LT, CB and RB imo that start and I really don't care what round. I do not want to pass on Cason for example that many say could start day one for Cromartie who starts game 12. I don't want to pass on Stewart and hope that no one drafts Forte before us. I want to fill a need position with the best player available.
Let me clarify what i meant by long term upside. Mario has the measureables desired for a dominant DE what he didn't have was the technique and finesse at times the position requires. That can be coached giving he shows the willingness to soak up knowledge and put it to use on Sundays. This year showed a pretty good glimpse of a guy learning and putting it to use.

Amobi has played at the College level for four years and has still yet to grow completely into his body. His senoir year at Louisville showed glimpses of what could be a very disruptive DT. Out of the gates this year he looked very impressive then ran into the proverbial wall.But over the next few years as he grows more into his body and takes the NFL game on speed his upside is killer long term.

Do you now see where i am going with the DRC comparison? You can't coach that kind of athleticism. You are born with it.

Also Mario was a shoe in for starter but I don't think Amobi really was. With the injury history of this team we're pinning a lot on Dunta making it back this year. At some point in our minds much as we hate to think about it Duntas injury was pretty severe what are his chances of coming back being the Dunta we all know? Also add in this is a contract year for him(very bad timing too). Again want to beat elite AFC teams including the top team in our division? Better have three good corners.
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Old 03-12-2008   #55
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

IMO, if Taylor stays healthy I truly believe he'll be a large part of our running game. I think it'll also allow us to carry 3-4 RB's on the roster and force Cook off. Taylor could also be utilized as a FB if needed. IIRC, Kubiak was giving him some practice time at FB during camp last season.

Be easy, I'm just thinking aloud here.
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Old 03-12-2008   #56
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
IMO, if Taylor stays healthy I truly believe he'll be a large part of our running game. I think it'll also allow us to carry 3-4 RB's on the roster and force Cook off. Taylor could also be utilized as a FB if needed. IIRC, Kubiak was giving him some practice time at FB during camp last season.

Be easy, I'm just thinking aloud here.
I would like to see Vonta Leach'es role expand & become more of the offense, think that pushes Cook off more than anything.
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Old 03-12-2008   #57
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

Kubiak was also high on Carr...take it fwiw
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Old 03-12-2008   #58
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

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Kubiak was also high on Carr...take it fwiw
Haven't you heard?--Kubiak only said that to get the job.
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Old 03-12-2008   #59
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
IMO, if Taylor stays healthy I truly believe he'll be a large part of our running game. I think it'll also allow us to carry 3-4 RB's on the roster and force Cook off. Taylor could also be utilized as a FB if needed. IIRC, Kubiak was giving him some practice time at FB during camp last season.

Be easy, I'm just thinking aloud here.
Hou-Tex I really hope you are correct. But that is all you are doing, hoping. We have almost nothing to base Taylor being an integral part of team. That is no ones fault, simply the fact. Too often as fans, we project what we [u]want[u]to happen into what must happen.
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Old 03-12-2008   #60
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Default Re: Kube's high on Taylor?

I doubt Taylor can be much of a factor early on this year. I have yet to see a running back come back from a serious knee injury the following year with much success. I don't doubt his desire and I liked his explosiveness, especially when compared to RB's like Dayne.

RB in round 3 or 4.
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