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Old 03-12-2008   #121
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Even if you get a starter at need position with the 2nd round pick and can get a good prospect later in draft for QB? I don't think I can agree with that.
A 4th round QB is very unlikely to be as good as a vet like Leftwich, Culpepper, Gray or even Tuiasosopo whereas in the 4th you are looking at the potential for DD, Bennett, Daniels etc. Beyond the 4th I don't really care about giving up the pick, but the odds on the QB being ready to be the 2nd QB on a 2 QB team are even lower.
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Old 03-12-2008   #122
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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I was saying that Porky had fallen in love with Sage and wasn't seeing things clearly.

It's true I confess.

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Old 03-12-2008   #123
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

There's a possibility that Sage could be the next Rich Gannon, and Kubiak is as likely to get that out of him as anyone. You can't plan on that, of course, but the level of competence that Sage displayed last season means that you don't have any dropoff from Schaub to Sage - yet. We all hope Schaub picks up his play to the point that there is a dropoff. I think if a 2nd round pick were offered, you'd have to do the deal, but for a 3rd, I'd stand pat.
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Old 03-12-2008   #124
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

On the market Schaub, as a backup (highly touted by NFL pundits, scouts, and other teams) was worth two 2nd round draft choices last year.

Sage, for his work last season, has not recieved as much national love as Schaub was getting when we traded for him.

So, I do NOT expect to get two 2nd round picks for Sage, if, indeed we pull the triger and do this. However, I do expect to get a 2nd round pick and something else. What that something else can be is another player (probably not a great one) or a lower round pick the 2nd day.

EDIT to add: And if Schaub proves to be injury prone, we will be up the creek without Sage and I'll be back here telling yall I told ya so. LOL
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Old 03-12-2008   #125
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying but also what people are saying who are very resistant in trading Rosenfels.

There's pros and cons to both Schaub and Rosenfels, like there are with any player. I think the biggest reason why people are resistant to trading Rosenfels is not because they think we are trading away the next Favre, but rather we still don't know exactly what we have in Schaub.

I also think that Rosenfels' wage to ability ratio is great at a key position for the team, that it allows the Texans to put only two quarterbacks on the roster, and that you aren't taking a position of strength for the team and making it into a big worry and questionmark. You don't have to be preparing up a #2 to potentially start or scramble to even find that guy in a league that has become a developmental wasteland for QBs (teams suiting up only 2 QBs, no Europa league, etc).

If Schaub were a more proven guy, I don't think we have this debate. I see him still as an incomplete. Not that I think that Rosenfels is better, but I'd like to see Schaub get through an NFL season.
Excellent point. I am one of those that feel strongly that especially this year it would be very imprudent to let go of Sage under virtually any circumstances. As some one else pointed out, the need for another QB to come in for the original starter on an NFL team during a season has become the rule rather than the exception. Oh yeh, you can point to Manning, Brady, Favre, etc. But these have become the exception......................The NFL is becoming a league of tandems. Any one remember when a single "workhorse" RB was all teams ever really need to rely on? Look around now.........
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Old 03-12-2008   #126
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

You guys are over playing how good sage Rosenfels is he is a career backup who fit the scheme pretty well and that's it get rid of him while his value is high. There are other QB's that can do well in this system as a backup.
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Old 03-12-2008   #127
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Your math is worse than mine.
simplified math
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Old 03-12-2008   #128
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Excellent point. I am one of those that feel strongly that especially this year it would be very imprudent to let go of Sage under virtually any circumstances. As some one else pointed out, the need for another QB to come in for the original starter on an NFL team during a season has become the rule rather than the exception. Oh yeh, you can point to Manning, Brady, Favre, etc. But these have become the exception......................The NFL is becoming a league of tandems.
Not for playoff teams it hasn't.
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Old 03-12-2008   #129
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by PHAROAH View Post
You guys are over playing how good sage Rosenfels is he is a career backup who fit the scheme pretty well and that's it get rid of him while his value is high. There are other QB's that can do well in this system as a backup.
I really don't think so. What Sage has done is concrete in results. They're not hard to see. You can argue that last year's production was his limit, and that's fine. You can likewise argue that Schaub has a higher upside and should be better than Sage going forward. That's fine. But last year, after all was said and done, Sage pretty much equaled Schaub in terms of statistical production and in terms of giving the team a chance to win each time out on the field. Going forward .... who knows? But right now, Schaub has not proven he's any better than Sage. Nor vice versa.
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Old 03-12-2008   #130
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Not for playoff teams it hasn't.
But you don't know who are the guys that can last an entire season. You can't annoint Schaub to be the whole season guy because he hasn't shown that.

And if he isn't the guy, and he gets dinged again, you need a quarterback that won't get the rest of your players killed or the coach fired. Or at a minimum, not self-destruct until your guy is better again.

The Patriots have had amazing luck and they've made their own luck with Tom Brady. And the luck ran out right before the Super Bowl and they still almost pulled it off.

The Texans have to make plans assuming that they have absolutely no luck at all.
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Old 03-12-2008   #131
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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The Texans have to make plans assuming that they have absolutely no luck at all.
Oh, we've had plenty of luck alright. BAD LUCK! Especially in the injury department.
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Old 03-12-2008   #132
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Not for playoff teams it hasn't.
Not wanting to start an arguement or anything, but we just made it to .500 last season. We're getting close to being a plaoff team, but not there just yet. TC and Porky have stated my case better than I have, so I guess we can just agree to disagree.
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Old 03-12-2008   #133
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

Wow,

There is some really good discussion going on in this thread..

My 2 cents.

If other teams are offering a third for Sage, I don't have a problem with our management playing hardball, and holding out. I think they have every reason to believe they should be able to get more than a third.

I wouldn't be too interested, if a Chester Taylor + a third was on the table. Between Ahman Green, Ron Dayne, Darius Walker & Chris Taylor, OTAs & training camp is already going to be pretty crowded @ the running back position. Not to mention whatever Wali Lundy or UDFA we'll pick up in this years draft.

As far as the "we need Sage badly" stuff, remember Jake Plummer before & after Kubiak, remember David Carr before & after Kubiak. Remember Sage Rosdenfells(& I'm a big fan) before Kubiak.

David's problem with Kubiak, wasn't his mechanics, his skill, or his arm, it was mental. He just didn't give us a chance to win. He was so overwhelmed by the game, that it just didn't make sense to pay him what we were paying him. IF Kubiak got David as a project, with no hurry to get him on the field, I'm sure Kubiak could have made a quality QB out of the guy.

Basically, what I'm saying, if we trade Sage, fine. I'm sure we'll get a quality deal.

If we don't... fine. We can push QB worries off for another year.
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Old 03-14-2008   #134
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

I just want attention and thought I'd bring this thread up to get people excited.

Okay I'll stop.
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Old 03-14-2008   #135
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
On the market Schaub, as a backup (highly touted by NFL pundits, scouts, and other teams) was worth two 2nd round draft choices last year.

Sage, for his work last season, has not recieved as much national love as Schaub was getting when we traded for him.

So, I do NOT expect to get two 2nd round picks for Sage, if, indeed we pull the triger and do this. However, I do expect to get a 2nd round pick and something else. What that something else can be is another player (probably not a great one) or a lower round pick the 2nd day.

EDIT to add: And if Schaub proves to be injury prone, we will be up the creek without Sage and I'll be back here telling yall I told ya so. LOL
@greed: they put up both of their threes you do the de@l @nd don't look b@ck.
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Old 03-14-2008   #136
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

I think Shane Boyd could turn out to be a pretty good QB. He has a lot of talent and natural ability, I am looking forward to seeing him more in camp and preseason. If we got a 2nd rounder for Sage I wouldn't be upset because I think Boyd could turn out to be a good find.
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Old 03-15-2008   #137
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

I don't know if this has anything to do with anything but I thought it was interesting in light of this thread so I pulled it off of KFFL.com


Quote:
Texans | Nall has had discussions with team
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:16:57 -0700

Judd Zulgad, of the Star Tribune, reports free-agent QB Craig Nall (Packers) has had discussions with the Houston Texans, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

Take it for what it's worth.


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Old 03-15-2008   #138
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by dickieb View Post
I think Shane Boyd could turn out to be a pretty good QB. He has a lot of talent and natural ability, I am looking forward to seeing him more in camp and preseason. If we got a 2nd rounder for Sage I wouldn't be upset because I think Boyd could turn out to be a good find.
I agree but I think that Boyd needs atleast another year on the pratice squad before we can even think about him serving as the back-up QB.

If we trade Sage we'll have to sign a veteran to be the back-up.
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Old 03-15-2008   #139
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by dickieb View Post
I think Shane Boyd could turn out to be a pretty good QB. He has a lot of talent and natural ability, I am looking forward to seeing him more in camp and preseason. If we got a 2nd rounder for Sage I wouldn't be upset because I think Boyd could turn out to be a good find.
I'm not saying this as a true backup QB to Schaub but let's say if in fact Sage was to be traded for a draft pick then we would need one and fill a good need position. So I noticed that the other Texan QB is once rookie Shane Boyd. I live in Phoenix Cardinal country in which he played the 2nd half against the Texans in 07 preseason and saw a fairly good performance. It also appeared the Cardinal fans here were very impressed. At least another year now in the system and also now a Texan. If anything can still try to pick up another backup vet QB. Now with draft picks they could possibly pick up in order the BPA of which are the, CB, OL, RB, and DE which in turn would help the possible unstabilitiy injury to Schaub by improving protection and less pressure on him. Just an open thinking idea of opinion if in fact they were to trade Sage.
Shane appears liking to run well... and he ran good in that preseason game I saw.
College career
He played in 36 games while starting 16 with the University of Kentucky. He finished his college career with 2,484 passing yards with 13 TD’s and gained 845 rushing yards on 191 carries and 13 TD’s.

Cologne Centurions quarterback Shane Boyd became NFL Europe’s all-time leading rushing quarterback, amassing 339 yards on the ground to break Jon Kitna’s record by five yards.
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Old 03-15-2008   #140
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Default Re: Vikings want to trade for Rosenfels..............

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Originally Posted by TexanBorn51 View Post
I'm not saying this as a true backup QB to Schaub but let's say if in fact Sage was to be traded for a draft pick then we would need one and fill a good need position. So I noticed that the other Texan QB is once rookie Shane Boyd. I live in Phoenix Cardinal country in which he played the 2nd half against the Texans in 07 preseason and saw a fairly good performance. It also appeared the Cardinal fans here were very impressed. At least another year now in the system and also now a Texan. If anything can still try to pick up another backup vet QB. Now with draft picks they could possibly pick up in order the BPA of which are the, CB, OL, RB, and DE which in turn would help the possible unstabilitiy injury to Schaub by improving protection and less pressure on him. Just an open thinking idea of opinion if in fact they were to trade Sage.
Shane appears liking to run well... and he ran good in that preseason game I saw.
College career
He played in 36 games while starting 16 with the University of Kentucky. He finished his college career with 2,484 passing yards with 13 TD’s and gained 845 rushing yards on 191 carries and 13 TD’s.

Cologne Centurions quarterback Shane Boyd became NFL Europe’s all-time leading rushing quarterback, amassing 339 yards on the ground to break Jon Kitna’s record by five yards.
The numbers are a little misleading in that up until his senior year, he played mostly RB, WR and punt coverage. In his senior year, he took over the QB spot and produced 1300+ yds (~50% completion), 7 TDs with 9 INTs, while producing 5 TDs rushing 281 yds on 104 carries for 2.9 ypc.

He was pegged to actually be converted to RB if he entered the NFL. (FYI, he turned down a MLB draft contract by the Twins as a pitcher and eventually was picked up as an undrafted FA by the Tacks)
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