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Flanagan/Hogdon/Barber/Putzier out

Overalls

Overalls

All Pro
According to the Chrons article about Z. Thomas coming to town the Texans are prepared to waive two of their three centers

The Texans are placing centers Mike Flanagan and Drew Hodgdon, tight end Jeb Putzier on waivers today.
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I realize that Flanagan is nearing the end of his carreer and that Hodgdon hasn't really shown to be a stellar center yet but how can we cut them both and leave ourselves with a banged up Steve Mckinney. Don't get me wrong I think McKinney is the best of the 3. I just wonder what the FO is thinking. Are there a bunch of FA centers out there? Is there some up and comer on the roster I am not thinking about? Are we thinking about drafting a center early in the draft? Just wondering.

:fans:

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4190 (update)
 
Texans_Chick

Texans_Chick

Utopian Dreamer
Overalls said:
According to the Chrons article about Z. Thomas coming to town the Texans are prepared to waive two of their three centers




I realize that Flanagan is nearing the end of his carreer and that Hodgdon hasn't really shown to be a stellar center yet but how can we cut them both and leave ourselves with a banged up Steve Mckinney. Don't get me wrong I think McKinney is the best of the 3. I just wonder what the FO is thinking. Are there a bunch of FA centers out there? Is there some up and comer on the roster I am not thinking about? Are we thinking about drafting a center early in the draft? Just wondering.

:fans:
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Flanagan old, hurty, not a ZBS guy, big contract.
Hodgdon smallish, looked bad at center when he played it. They tried to stick him at guard, but it was just an attempt to put him somewhere.

Bob McNair said that the Texans were looking at center when he was interviewed with McClain. The roster is filled with a bunch of guys at center. You get that when there isn't an obvious The Guy for the position.
 
Texan_Bill

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
Overalls said:
According to the Chrons article about Z. Thomas coming to town the Texans are prepared to waive two of their three centers




I realize that Flanagan is nearing the end of his carreer and that Hodgdon hasn't really shown to be a stellar center yet but how can we cut them both and leave ourselves with a banged up Steve Mckinney. Don't get me wrong I think McKinney is the best of the 3. I just wonder what the FO is thinking. Are there a bunch of FA centers out there? Is there some up and comer on the roster I am not thinking about? Are we thinking about drafting a center early in the draft? Just wondering.

:fans:
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Guess they figure between McKinney and Chris White that the Center position is covered.
 
Fox

Fox

Rookie
Not sure if he'll end up making the roster or not, but they signed Greg Eslinger a while back as well right?
 
GP

GP

Go Texans!
So, we still have a media person who's saying Zach Thomas is potentially coming here?

I'll be very angry if Zach Thomas makes this team. I'm a Red Raider fan through-and-through (stop the hissing, by the way) and I think he's a HOFer for sure...but he is another Ahman Green-in-the-making.

No more of these half-baked FA moves which reek of "settling" for a guy who had star power and ability up until the last few years.

I cannot go through a year of "Will Zach be playing this Sunday?" threads.

Like it's been said: You add these sorts of guys as a finishing touch, not when you're depleted and starved for talent.

BTW...I am absolutely OK with us dumping Flanagan and Hogdon. It's two salaries and two roster spots which could be used on Chris White and another guy (McKinney, if able). I was supremely disappointed with Flanagan's contributions. Probably was a great player "in the day," but those days (IMO) are gone. of course, if he were standing here reading this...I'd take back every word--This is one of those "No disrespect to the guy, BUT.." sort of posts.

But as a fan of this team, we need better help than what we got from him.
 
G

Grid

All Pro
doesnt worry me too much. Though I have always liked hodgdon and was hoping that, if he didnt make it at center, we would try him in other spots. I remember when we drafted him he seemed like a perfect fit for the ZBS.. if we are willing to release him now it must be for reasons off the field (or so I would assume)
 
Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
I've never been impressed with Hogdon and didn't think he would make the team last year. I was hoping we would cut Flanagan also.
 
P

painekiller

All Pro
Texans center as of right now with the two cuts
Steve McKinney
Chris White
Greg Eslinger a prototypical ZBS center, will need to prove he is over his shoulder injury, was drafted by Denver while Smith was still there.
Chukky Okobi 6-3 305 from Purdue, was the OC of the future for the Steelers until a neck injury forced them to cut him for cap purposes. He was making 2M a year. He is an 8 year vet, could just be camp fodder now.

Also Brisiel played OC in Europe, he could be in the mix.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
badboy said:
Could someone keep a running total of how much cap space we add as we make cuts?
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Things can be split up as June 1st cuts (teams can pre-cut two players now and later declare them June 1st cuts) but barring that:

Flanigan--$1 mil in dead money, $1.5 mil in cap space created.
Putzier--$920k in dead money, about $500k in cap space created.
 
Ole Miss Texan

Ole Miss Texan

Hall of Fame
Good news for the rebuilding of our team. Both those guys needed to go and that's what has happened. McKinney/White/Eslinger/Okobi/Briesel ->That's plenty of guys going into camp.

I suspect 2 of those guys will be cut and 1 will be moved to Guard to make room for our 53-man roster. In addition I think we'll be drafting 2 more players for the OL (G and/or T). And then looking at the UDFA/FA's for more competition.

I think the release of these two have nothing to do with Thomas. Whether we get him or not, these guys were costing more than producing and were not part of the future of our team. We can get equal production from other players while costing less.
 
N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
Grid said:
Though I have always liked hodgdon and was hoping that, if he didnt make it at center, we would try him in other spots. I remember when we drafted him he seemed like a perfect fit for the ZBS.. if we are willing to release him now it must be for reasons off the field (or so I would assume)
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Actually the Hodgdon cut is the one that surprises me just a little. The others
have been expected.
I thought the addition of coach Gibbs would perhaps give someone like Hodgdon, who appears to be a potential fit in the Gibbs ZBS as a smallish but quick center/guard, a new opportunity to make the roster on a long-term basis. But I'm sure Gibbs must now be making the ultimately calls on the acquisition/retention of OLineman so he apparently he didn't like what he saw in Hodgdon.
Regarding any "off field" issues for Hodgdon, quite the contrary I'd say because its my understanding that he's nothing but a high-character guy ?
 
Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
nunusguy said:
Actually the Hodgdon cut is the one that surprises me just a little. The others
have been expected.
I thought the addition of coach Gibbs would perhaps give someone like Hodgdon, who appears to be a potential fit in the Gibbs ZBS as a smallish but quick center/guard, a new opportunity to make the roster on a long-term basis. But I'm sure Gibbs must now be making the ultimately calls on the acquisition/retention of OLineman so he apparently he didn't like what he saw in Hodgdon.
Regarding any "off field" issues for Hodgdon, quite the contrary I'd say because its my understanding that he's nothing but a high-character guy ?
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He gets pushed around too easily in the little I've seen him play.

I've been told that the Texans are pretty high on Dan Stevenson. He isn't a center but he is an interior lineman with great feet and good size (6'5" 300).
 
HOU-TEX

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
I know this is kinda old, but do y'all think it was just a coinkadink that Chucky Okobi and Dan Stevenson were signed 4 days after Gibbs was brought on? Or do y'all think Gibbs was the one wanting to bring them in? :)
 
Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
Vinny said:
I've been told that the Texans are pretty high on Dan Stevenson. He isn't a center but he is an interior lineman with great feet and good size (6'5" 300).
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HOU-TEX said:
I know this is kinda old, but do y'all think it was just a coinkadink that Chucky Okobi and Dan Stevenson were signed 4 days after Gibbs was brought on? Or do y'all think Gibbs was the one wanting to bring them in? :)
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nope, no coincidence...Stevenson is a guy known for great feet, long arms but not the strongest guy (sounds like a zbs guy to me).

here is an interview I found....sounds like a high character guy to me.
 
N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
nope, no coincidence...Stevenson is a guy known for great feet, long arms but not the strongest guy (sounds like a zbs guy to me).

here is an interview I found....sounds like a high character guy to me.
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Kid is a real bible-pounder isn't he ? But that's usually a good thing for football players. Gives 'em focus, dedication, and devotion to the team.
And athletically he does look like a candidate for Gibb's system. I googled
him just now and found he even played volleyball in HS, probably another sign of quickness and coordination.
 
Hottoddie

Hottoddie

Veteran
It sounds like we have enough guys for the center spot, but I'd like to throw one more name into the mix. Seth McKinney. He's played center/guard & is an UFA. It's always possible that big brother could be putting the hard sell on behind the scenes.
 
The Pencil Neck

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
I don't see why people are surprised about Hodgdon. He got cut last year before the season started and only got brought back after all the interior line injuries.
 
S

Spike

Waterboy
Both of these guys played hard for the Texans, but the center position is one of the top 5 positions on the team that absolutely needs an upgrade. After Steve went down, there was a notable decline in the line play with Flanagan at center. I had hoped to see White get more snaps at center, but he just got injured at the wrong time. White has earned the right to compete for a starting spot at center or guard. These boards got me excited about the prospect of Eslinger and I thought Brisiel intrugues me as well.

Keeping Flanagan would have been the conservative move and cutting him is going to allow someone else to come in and improve this unit.
 
bigbrewster2000

bigbrewster2000

Veteran
nunusguy said:
Kid is a real bible-pounder isn't he ? But that's usually a good thing for football players. Gives 'em focus, dedication, and devotion to the team.
And athletically he does look like a candidate for Gibb's system. I googled
him just now and found he even played volleyball in HS, probably another sign of quickness and coordination.
Click to expand...
Not only is that usually good for football players but it is also good for any person :cool:
 
Errant Hothy

Errant Hothy

Hypermediocrity
Vinny said:
He gets pushed around too easily in the little I've seen him play.

I've been told that the Texans are pretty high on Dan Stevenson. He isn't a center but he is an interior lineman with great feet and good size (6'5" 300).
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Lance Z was saying, in his chat, that the Texans are also still high on Butler and Frye.

Is there any chance that Butler developes into a starting LT under Gibbs' eye?
Lance_Zierlein: Yes. He and Brandon Frye are two to keep your eye on.
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http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/02/transcript_of_feb_18_chat.html
 
badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
infantrycak said:
Things can be split up as June 1st cuts (teams can pre-cut two players now and later declare them June 1st cuts) but barring that:

Flanigan--$1 mil in dead money, $1.5 mil in cap space created.
Putzier--$920k in dead money, about $500k in cap space created.
Click to expand...
My guesstimate was apprx $2m + some on Shawn Barber. The cap space can keep going up IMO.
 
badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
infantrycak said:
Barber will have two years of prorated bonus at $700k per year vs. a 2008 cap hit if he had been retained of $1.85 mil.
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Do you see in other "likely to go candidates" that would help the cap? I'm thinking Jordan Black and possibly Ahman Green at a later date. I heard on one of the radio stations that cutting Green would result in a cap savings of $1.5m. I know I am alone in this, but Lance Briggs and Trufant could be signed and still pay drafted guys. We have a lot of unsigned FA but I am not too excited about bring many back and Smith has worked wonders bringing in cheap but solid back ups. How does this sound?

Stewart at #18
Tony Hills LT in 3rd
Quentin Demps FS 4th
Josh Barrett SS Arizona State 6'2" 225 4.55

Trufant CB
Lance Briggs OLB

The only Texans FA I'm interested in is Breuner TE, Andre Davis WR, Will Demps and Turk. All have to be reasonably priced. I'd tender Anthony Maddox and CC Brown and hope someone signs and we get draft picks.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
badboy said:
Do you see in other "likely to go candidates" that would help the cap? I'm thinking Jordan Black and possibly Ahman Green at a later date.
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Don't know about likely to go, but some players who are not certain to be retained and who would free up cap room include: Greenwood, Black, Faggins, Fletcher, and Zgonina.

I heard on one of the radio stations that cutting Green would result in a cap savings of $1.5m.
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Just an FYI--the radio guys are generally horrible about the cap. In Green's case it depends on whether they would designate him as a June 1st cut.

Regular cut--$3.75 dead money--$1.3 mil in cap space freed up.
June 1st cut--$1.25 dead money 2008--$3.8 mil cap space freed up in 2008--$2.5 mil dead money in 2009.
 
badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
infantrycak said:
Don't know about likely to go, but some players who are not certain to be retained and who would free up cap room include: Greenwood, Black, Faggins, Fletcher, and Zgonina.



Just an FYI--the radio guys are generally horrible about the cap. In Green's case it depends on whether they would designate him as a June 1st cut.

Regular cut--$3.75 dead money--$1.3 mil in cap space freed up.
June 1st cut--$1.25 dead money 2008--$3.8 mil cap space freed up in 2008--$2.5 mil dead money in 2009.
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Wow! $3.8m is a pretty good player in FA. The deadline we have to meet cap is when? It would have to be prior to game 1 but I do not know date.
 
buddyboy

buddyboy

Rookie
badboy said:
Wow! $3.8m is a pretty good player in FA. The deadline we have to meet cap is when? It would have to be prior to game 1 but I do not know date.
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I don't know, that 2.5 million dead cap next year would be a pain. I may be alone in this, but I'd like to see Green in a Texans uni this season. The cap room might be able to help us, but IMO it's not worth screwing us over next year. Plus, I think that Green can contribute, IF he stays healthy, and I know, that's a pretty big assumption since Green is always injured. I just see positives of keeping Green outweighes the positives of releasing him and losing all that cap space.
 
TexansSeminole

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
badboy said:
Stewart at #18
Tony Hills LT in 3rd
Quentin Demps FS 4th
Josh Barrett SS Arizona State 6'2" 225 4.55

Trufant CB
Lance Briggs OLB

The only Texans FA I'm interested in is Breuner TE, Andre Davis WR, Will Demps and Turk. All have to be reasonably priced. I'd tender Anthony Maddox and CC Brown and hope someone signs and we get draft picks.
Click to expand...
I don't think we'd take a strong safety after taking a FS in the 4th and knowing we took a SS in the 5th or was it 6th round last year. Plus you've got a Brandon Mitchell from last year that got injured, Glenn Earl, etc. If we want to address SS we need to do it early, or we are just canceling out an old draft pick.

Demps would be a nice addition at FS. We've never drafted a free safety before. Check that, we drafted Jamaal Lord out of Nebraska as a FS prospect. Too bad he was a QB in college, and did not contribute. We've drafted our share of strong safeties: Ramon Walker, Glenn Earl, CC Brown and then this past year we drafted Brandon Harrison.

Glenn Earl in the fourth round is the highest selected safety of this franchise. CC Brown in the 6th round was the best value, and he was the most productive. I know that's painfully true on all three accounts.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
TexansSeminole said:
We've never drafted a free safety before. We've drafted our share of strong safeties: Ramon Walker, Glenn Earl, CC Brown and then this past year we drafted Brandon Harrison.
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Harrison was drafted to be a FS, although he did play more at SS in college (except Stanford doesn't have traditional SS and FS distinctions). Ramon Walker played FS his last year of college.
 
Goldensilence

Goldensilence

hipster elite
buddyboy said:
I don't know, that 2.5 million dead cap next year would be a pain. I may be alone in this, but I'd like to see Green in a Texans uni this season. The cap room might be able to help us, but IMO it's not worth screwing us over next year. Plus, I think that Green can contribute, IF he stays healthy, and I know, that's a pretty big assumption since Green is always injured. I just see positives of keeping Green outweighes the positives of releasing him and losing all that cap space.
Click to expand...
You're not alone in that. Nobody in FA really jumps out at me and I'm not really interested in Turner. I'm personally 50-50 on keeping Dayne. Got to give Dayne a decent workload or else he's not really productive IMO. At this point in Green's Career good third down back who'd be good on screens.

I hope Walker catches on here again next year. Everyone wants the homerun back but that's what I think going over the top with WR is for myself. I personally want a guy who can pick up the blitz, recognizes cut backs & running lanes, knows when to be an escape valve and homerun speed is icing on the cake to me. I
 
T

threetoedpete

Hall of Fame
Further, Demps is not a good fit here. Believe the mockers boards if you want. I sat up and watched the guy turn in three mediocre preformances in the wee hours of the morning. Athlete...yes. Football player ....no. he's going to blow the drills away next tuesday...buyer beware.
 
T

threetoedpete

Hall of Fame
Goldensilence said:
You're not alone in that. Nobody in FA really jumps out at me and I'm not really interested in Turner. I'm personally 50-50 on keeping Dayne. Got to give Dayne a decent workload or else he's not really productive IMO. At this point in Green's Career good third down back who'd be good on screens.

I hope Walker catches on here again next year. Everyone wants the homerun back but that's what I think going over the top with WR is for myself. I personally want a guy who can pick up the blitz, recognizes cut backs & running lanes, knows when to be an escape valve and homerun speed is icing on the cake to me. I
Click to expand...
A good scouting department can find you those creatures on the second day. What's that fellas name up in Green Bay...Grant ?
 
Dallas_Texan

Dallas_Texan

Waterboy
Goldensilence said:
You're not alone in that. Nobody in FA really jumps out at me and I'm not really interested in Turner. I'm personally 50-50 on keeping Dayne. Got to give Dayne a decent workload or else he's not really productive IMO. At this point in Green's Career good third down back who'd be good on screens.

I hope Walker catches on here again next year. Everyone wants the homerun back but that's what I think going over the top with WR is for myself. I personally want a guy who can pick up the blitz, recognizes cut backs & running lanes, knows when to be an escape valve and homerun speed is icing on the cake to me. I
Click to expand...
I'm going to do you one better.....I think Green will be VERY productive next year. Nay-say all you want, I think he will surprise a lot of people and be a big part of our offense. Put me on record!:shades:
 
badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
buddyboy said:
I don't know, that 2.5 million dead cap next year would be a pain. I may be alone in this, but I'd like to see Green in a Texans uni this season. The cap room might be able to help us, but IMO it's not worth screwing us over next year. Plus, I think that Green can contribute, IF he stays healthy, and I know, that's a pretty big assumption since Green is always injured. I just see positives of keeping Green outweighes the positives of releasing him and losing all that cap space.
Click to expand...
We need help now. $2.5 dead $ is drop in bucket as we get more fiscally responsible with Chris Olsen doing contracts. $4 million can bring on a decent back up and we know what Smith can do. I say use the $4m now.

Green could be a 1000 yarder but do we take that chance? Do we draft a Stewart or Mendenhall or Forte and let that person be the man? We gambled with Green and lost. I hope someone offers something to take Green off our hands.
 
badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
TexansSeminole said:
I don't think we'd take a strong safety after taking a FS in the 4th and knowing we took a SS in the 5th or was it 6th round last year. Plus you've got a Brandon Mitchell from last year that got injured, Glenn Earl, etc. If we want to address SS we need to do it early, or we are just canceling out an old draft pick.

Demps would be a nice addition at FS. We've never drafted a free safety before. Check that, we drafted Jamaal Lord out of Nebraska as a FS prospect. Too bad he was a QB in college, and did not contribute. We've drafted our share of strong safeties: Ramon Walker, Glenn Earl, CC Brown and then this past year we drafted Brandon Harrison.

Glenn Earl in the fourth round is the highest selected safety of this franchise. CC Brown in the 6th round was the best value, and he was the most productive. I know that's painfully true on all three accounts.
Click to expand...
Most people have not been satisfied with our safeties. I did not post this but if Earl is not resigned; CC Brown is tendered but we get a draft pick as he is signed by another team; Boulaware is signed only through 2008; Demps may be heading elsewhere; that leaves us basically with Boulaware, Brandon Mitchell whom we know little about, Harrison whom I like but remains a ? and 5'8" 198 s/cb Jason Simmons. Hutchins a UFA can play FS but I have him as a nickle CB. A SS is then a possibility. Personally I think CC and Earl will be re-signed.
 
badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
Dallas_Texan said:
I'm going to do you one better.....I think Green will be VERY productive next year. Nay-say all you want, I think he will surprise a lot of people and be a big part of our offense. Put me on record!:shades:
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I got you on record but I think you are going around and around. Look, I'm not against Green, but can we afford another year at risk with him? Almost like waiting for Mathis to grow up. May not happen.
 
HOU-TEX

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
badboy said:
We need help now. $2.5 dead $ is drop in bucket as we get more fiscally responsible with Chris Olsen doing contracts. $4 million can bring on a decent back up and we know what Smith can do. I say use the $4m now.

Green could be a 1000 yarder but do we take that chance? Do we draft a Stewart or Mendenhall or Forte and let that person be the man? We gambled with Green and lost. I hope someone offers something to take Green off our hands.
Click to expand...
I don't think we've lost on Green just yet. After watching Kubiaks video on chron.com, he solidified my thoughts about Green being here next season. He seemed highly confident Green will be here. He also seems to still be optimistic about Chris Taylor.

FWIW, he didn't mention Dayne at all. :cool:
 
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