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Old 02-14-2008   #101
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
well that is preciecly the point...the histroy suggests that for every day two guy or TE guy who makes the jump to a starter quality OLT or LG there are litterally hundreds who don't. And for every round you let them slip by, there is a bust factor by a FACTOR of ten added on to the guy. Look it up. You take a guy late you except the risk that the guy in all probality will not make it out of camp. If he makes the PS you did prety good.

But what we found out in the super bowl....they can darn sure lose a few for you. It wasn't the Patties Cb nor the RB...the left tackle and the left gaurd couldn't block the speed of the Giants DL. The olt is not going to fall into their laps. They gotta go get him. And that means one of these drafts they are going to have to do something that's going to sting....take a canidate early. Other wise they are doing to MS the very same damn thing they did to HWSNBN. And what I'm posting...it's just a matter of time before Salaam gets hurt. That's when the team will pay the price for being short sighted....for the second time. Enjoy it.
I'm in total agreement with this. I am really hoping that we draft BPA in the 1st rd. , then trade back into the 2nd rd. & pick Nicks or Collins.
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Old 02-14-2008   #102
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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I'm in total agreement with this. I am really hoping that we draft BPA in the 1st rd. , then trade back into the 2nd rd. & pick Nicks or Collins.
Dude--threetoed is saying exactly the opposite of BPA. He advocates LT or bust.
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Old 02-14-2008   #103
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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You keep picking horrible examples to make your point. Matt Light is wearing 3 SB rings he won as a starter and came pretty darn close to getting a 4th.

Seriously how far do you take your point?--if 6 OT's go off the board before #18, but the #1 CB and #2 RB both of whom grade out far higher are still there, do you really insist on picking the 7th OT?
In fact, the more "important" the position, the more important you don't just draft the highest rated one on the board be damned. You will be stuck with a player who you and your fans are expecting 1st round production out of with 3rd round talent and paying too much for it terms of money and time. This is the David Carr lesson.
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Old 02-14-2008   #104
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

Rick Smith & his scouts probably have a long, long extended list that stretches into prospects projected to be undrafted free agents. I'd guess for sure we get us at least one of those

If a consensus high profile player falls in the 1st to the Texans who does not play a position of need (very few) Rick receives an attractive trade down proposal the likelyhood is enhanced with extra picks LT could be addressed with a top notch LT prospect, otherwise stand pat take Mendenhall or top CB.
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Old 02-15-2008   #105
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Is it really that obvious? Other than Travis Johnson, who would you give back and for whom? Carr may not have worked out but neither have Williams and McKinnie. Want to turn back AJ or Dunta, Mario or Okoye? It is easy to say spend a 1st in a vacuum but you are always giving up another possible selection. I'll cheer for a LT who is BPA in the 1st, but not for forcing one and passing up better talent.
Yes, I think it is that obvious, but that's just my opinion. The Texans keep bringing in journeymen left tackles, third-round-or-later left tackle prospects, and stick with Salaam even when he was looking pretty beaten/bandaged out on the field. They have done this year-in, year-out, so I think there is a pattern here. Based on this pattern, I'm not expecting the Texans to draft a left tackle in the first round or to free-agent one of the top left tackles in the league.
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Old 02-15-2008   #106
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by Texans Horror View Post
Yes, I think it is that obvious, but that's just my opinion. The Texans keep bringing in journeymen left tackles, third-round-or-later left tackle prospects, and stick with Salaam even when he was looking pretty beaten/bandaged out on the field. They have done this year-in, year-out, so I think there is a pattern here. Based on this pattern, I'm not expecting the Texans to draft a left tackle in the first round or to free-agent one of the top left tackles in the league.
I think you need to rephrase the way that you are putting this, because as it stands right now there is no top talent FA Left tackle. There are LT's in FA but none of them are top talent.

And I am not fighting someone elses battles here I am just curious to hear the answer to the question that was presented to you, Other than Travis Johnson what 1st rounder would you have given back for a LT? Better yet, Which of our last 2 1st rounders would you have given back? Mario? I say now way, simply because at this point you would be getting inferior talent in return. Ferguson hasnt hit his stride yet and hasnt played any better than the tackles that we have fielded.

Amobi? Definantly no way because we would have really had to reach for a LT at our position since the top 2 guys were off the board.

And I am an advocate of a LT in the draft IF that is the BPA at the 3 major needs positions we have. There is no reason to reach when you can get better value somewhere else in the Draft.

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Old 02-15-2008   #107
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Is it really that obvious? Other than Travis Johnson, who would you give back and for whom? Carr may not have worked out but neither have Williams and McKinnie. Want to turn back AJ or Dunta, Mario or Okoye? It is easy to say spend a 1st in a vacuum but you are always giving up another possible selection. I'll cheer for a LT who is BPA in the 1st, but not for forcing one and passing up better talent.
Yeah its Travis Johnson. We had our Choice of Jamal Brown or Alex Brown. Both would have been better choices than TJ.
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Old 02-15-2008   #108
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Old 02-15-2008   #109
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Yeah its Travis Johnson. We had our Choice of Jamal Brown or Alex Brown. Both would have been better choices than TJ.
If you remember, Casserly thought that Brown was strictly a RT, and the Texans had that position covered with Todd Wade (). I seem to remember that a lot of Texan fans felt the same way at the time. The rumor on Alex Barron was that he stood the Texans up at a dinner meeting at the combine. I guess that left a bad taste in their collective mouth.
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Old 02-15-2008   #110
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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In fact, the more "important" the position, the more important you don't just draft the highest rated one on the board be damned. You will be stuck with a player who you and your fans are expecting 1st round production out of with 3rd round talent and paying too much for it terms of money and time. This is the David Carr lesson.
brilliant commentary as usual.
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Old 02-15-2008   #111
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Yes, I think it is that obvious, but that's just my opinion. The Texans keep bringing in journeymen left tackles, third-round-or-later left tackle prospects, and stick with Salaam even when he was looking pretty beaten/bandaged out on the field. They have done this year-in, year-out, so I think there is a pattern here. Based on this pattern, I'm not expecting the Texans to draft a left tackle in the first round or to free-agent one of the top left tackles in the league.
"Year-in, year-out" implies more than a couple of years.

Under Kubiak, they drafted 2 tackles in the 3rd round and brought Salaam in to be a backup swing tackle. The rookie LT got injured in the second game of his career and Salaam had to be pressed into service.

Then the next year, they brought in a free agent (Black) who didn't pan out, were expecting the LT from the previous year to possibly make it back, drafted a possible tackle (Frye), and nabbed what could be a future starter (Butler.) But in the end had to use Salaam again.

That's 2 years. Not much time for a pattern.

From what Kubiak has said, I expect Salaam to be starting the season next year unless a young tackle steps up and impresses them. I expect them to draft an LT somewhere in the first 3-4 rounds this year and then groom him and try to get him ready but not press him into service too quickly. If a good prospect presents itself, I totally expect Smithiak to make a move to improve the situation. But I don't expect them to get desperate and do silly things.
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Old 02-15-2008   #112
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

I don't see what the rush is to get Salaam out of the line-up...

He's not great, but the guy is alright...

Easily the best LT we've ever had...That's not saying a lot but iiwii....

I don't think he's the biggest problem on our offense by a longshot....

Try turnovers, RB's and center for 5,000.....

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Old 02-15-2008   #113
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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better yet , how many have we won ?
Yes, in the 6 years we were a expansion team, you cannot get all 1st rounders as starters in your 1st year. The Oilers were an established team and with all those 1st and 2nd rounders on the line didn't win a Super Bowl. As a matter a fact the Oilers didn't even go tho the Super Bowl until they were the Titans.
So what I'm trying to say is just because you have all 1st and 2nd rounders on the o-line doesn't mean you're going to the Super Bowl. Also back then players were more commited to one team, because for the most part played on the same team their whole carrier.

If you think about it with the new GM and head coach our draft pickes haven't been too bad, actually mose of the draft picks are still on the team. As I see it we have a better starting team and better backups than we had before the new regeine.
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Old 02-15-2008   #114
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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If you remember, Casserly thought that Brown was strictly a RT, and the Texans had that position covered with Todd Wade (). I seem to remember that a lot of Texan fans felt the same way at the time. The rumor on Alex Barron was that he stood the Texans up at a dinner meeting at the combine. I guess that left a bad taste in their collective mouth.
Yeah, but thats the thing. Casserly sucks at evaluating talent. His job is to be able to evaluate talent based on his position in the draft and choose them. In addition he had to evaluate talent around the league and bring in FA that would be good for the team. Yes, I recall that Texans fans here on the board felt the same way, but we are not paid to scout and evaluate full time. We do this in our spare time.

Also, I never heard that Alex Barron did that. Point is that either of them would look great on the LT side for the Texans right about now and instead we have TJ who has been an absolute bust in my mind.
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Old 02-15-2008   #115
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by awtysst View Post

Also, I never heard that Alex Barron did that. Point is that either of them would look great on the LT side for the Texans right about now and instead we have TJ who has been an absolute bust in my mind.
Based on what Alex Barron has done, would he really be any better at LT than Salaam? I know he's younger, but I think we'd be a long way from considering the LT position nailed down. Plus, this is the 2nd most penalized player in the NFL over the last four years (even though he's only played for three of them).

Last edited by ChampionTexan; 02-15-2008 at 01:27 PM. Reason: language correction
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Old 02-15-2008   #116
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Based on what Alex Barron has done, would he really be any better at LT than Salaam? I know he's younger, but I think we'd be a long way from considering the LT position nailed down. Plus, this is the 2nd most penalized player in the NFL over the last four years (even though he's only played for three of them).
Yes, I really believe Alex Barron would be a better LT than Salaam. As you said he is younger but he also has good size for the ZBS. Also, he
has mostly been playing out of position the last few years at RT since Orlando Pace was at the LT spot. Only in the last year or so did he get the opportunity to switch over to his more natural LT spot. I alos think he needs to be coached up to avoid those dumb penalties. I do not believe the Rams O line has had very good coaching and have basically been fortunate to have someone with the talent of an Orlando Pace. Give Barron some coaching and some time and I think he becomes a quality starting NFL LT.
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Old 02-15-2008   #117
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

If was in charge of a football team, and I'm not, and I also don't know near as much, technically, about pro football as most of yall do, but if it was up to me, I'd be drafting a lineman (either side) with my first pick every year.
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Old 02-15-2008   #118
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
Yeah its Travis Johnson. We had our Choice of Jamal Brown or Alex Brown. Both would have been better choices than TJ.
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Also, I never heard that Alex Barron did that. Point is that either of them would look great on the LT side for the Texans right about now and instead we have TJ who has been an absolute bust in my mind.
first of all.. travis isnt an 'absolute bust'. he hasnt performed aswell as expected but seems to be getting better and looks to have a good attitude..

secondly, barron is nothing special at all and jammal had a bad year after last yrs good yr

and finally and most importantly that ye have oversighted:

is Barron/Brown > TJ + Winston??

i say definitely not
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Old 02-20-2008   #119
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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And I am an advocate of a LT in the draft IF that is the BPA at the 3 major needs positions we have. There is no reason to reach when you can get better value somewhere else in the Draft.
It's not a reach if you've never had one and your running game...struggles.

And that is the point...either you believe that one of these years... and I mean after six how many more do you need.....one is going to fall into your lap, or one is not. They aren't going to fall into your laps by accident. They don't grow on trees and so far noone has been good enough at our slot, or to spend the draft capitol on to move up and go get. . All We do is watch other teams pluck them off the board early.

The Texans will never be in the correct position unless they're going into the tank with a 5-11 or something. Hasn't happened yet. My question to the nay sayers is how long are you guys projecting Salaam as the starter. One more seson...two.... into his forties ? I mean if you want to tramp with late round projects...O.K. Draft Cotam and put 30 pounds on him. Draft King Dunlap and motivate him. But by god have something more in the bank than wishfull thinking and hoping everthing will turn out alright in the end. From what I'm seeing from our members is no one here seems to think it's worth even a token late day two pick. and that's just mind boggeling to me.

No one has answered my original question yet from last year...who protects MS' blind side if Salaam goes down ?

The answer is: that guy is not on the roster yet.
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Old 02-20-2008   #120
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
It's not a reach if you've never had one and your running game...struggles.

And that is the point...either you believe that one of these years... and I mean after six how many more do you need.....they aren't going to fall into your laps by accident. The Texans will never be in the correct position unless they'e going into the tank with a 5-11 or soemthing. Hasn't happened yet. My question to the nay sayers is how long are you guys projecting Salaam as the starter. One more seson...two.... into his forties ? I mean if you want to trap with late round projects...O.K. Draft Cotam and put 30 pounds on him. Draft King Dunlap and motivate him. But by god have something more in the bank than wishfull thinking and hoping everthing will turn out alright in the end. No one has answered my origanal question yet from last year...who protects MS' blind side if Salaam goes down ?

The answer is: the guy is not on the roster yet.
You are correct and Kubes has said that LT is a concern. I think a LT will be drafted to replace Salaam. When he takes over will be up to that players efforts. If Salaam could get some time off each game he might last two years. Black is signed only through 2008and will not be a surprise if he is let go at some point.
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