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Old 02-12-2008   #61
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
If we had a decent O-LINE it would help the running game & the passing game. It would also keep a defense lacking in talent off the field. I believe this is a deep RB class & we can find a very productive rb in rds. 3 thru 5
14th ranked offense - overall.

11th ranked passing offense with AJ gone for 7 games. Nothing to really over-haul there.

22nd ranked rushing offense but to put things into perspective, the final two games were started by a guy who was 6th on the depth chart in pre-season and cut before the season started. This says more about the backs than it does the O-line...

No one here is suggesting that the O-line is all that great, but it certainly is not as bad as some others might suggest. If the right moves are there, sure go for it, but don't gamble or be so closed-minded that you wind up 'reaching' for an O-lineman...

I would rather see the picks spent on defense unless the right RB is out there.
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Old 02-12-2008   #62
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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14th ranked offense - overall.

11th ranked passing offense with AJ gone for 7 games. Nothing to really over-haul there.

22nd ranked rushing offense but to put things into perspective, the final two games were started by a guy who was 6th on the depth chart in pre-season and cut before the season started. This says more about the backs than it does the O-line...

No one here is suggesting that the O-line is all that great, but it certainly is not as bad as some others might suggest. If the right moves are there, sure go for it, but don't gamble or be so closed-minded that you wind up 'reaching' for an O-lineman...

I would rather see the picks spent on defense unless the right RB is out there.
I think it has a lot to do with coaching and scheme of the issues the offensive line had last year.
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Old 02-12-2008   #63
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

love this thread guys, our first round pick has to be a starter on defense, i'm tired of seeing so-so qb's shred our defense, take away the turnovers and our offense is great, keep building the defense, "offense sell tickets, defense wins championships", giants D was mvp of playoffs, not just the superbowl
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Old 02-12-2008   #64
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Seriously, do you think there is anyone on this MB that isn't well aware of your stance on Carr. Dude has been gone almost a year and yet the incessant references continue. Let it go. The Texans have moved on--time for you to as well.
he hasn't been off the team that long. we are one season removed from him being the face of the franchise. i just think its funny how some people think that the only reason we arent in the Super Bowl is because we havent spent a first round draft pick on an Offensive Line and that somehow that also ruined Carr and is now going to ruin Schaub unless we spend our first pick on OL. Fools gold.

Draft the best defensive player available. The offense isn't that far off and lets see what Gibbs can do with the talent we have already accumulated.
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Old 02-12-2008   #65
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

I'm sure RS & KUBES will do what they have done in their first 2 drafts, take the BPA.
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Old 02-12-2008   #66
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

We need a starter out of our first pick. I don't want to see us draft a LT and see him sit behind Salaam for a year. This team has way too many problems on defense to be picking a offensive lineman first so he can sit on the bench and watch.
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Old 02-12-2008   #67
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

I wouldn't mind a guy like Mendenhall or Stewart, a thick legged RB, but I don't think RB is a pressing enough need to take one in the first round.
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Old 02-12-2008   #68
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

Great thread.

Having Salaam in at LT is at best an injury gamble due to the man's age. At worst, he was completely blown by often, and along with the non-McKinney Center, looked like the weak link in an otherwise mediocre offensive line. The Texans are now an average, mediocre team looking to make the jump into the play-offs. In order to do that, they will have to continue building from the trenches, and IMO LT is still one of the weakest points along the line. It is especially weak since every game is a potential injury to Salaam. It would behoove the Texans to draft the best possible left tackle they can to replace Salaam and not depend on him and Spencer to pick up the LT duties. Whether that factors as higher than the need for a running back or defensive back remains to be seen, but there are valid justifications for looking into LTs during the draft.
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Old 02-12-2008   #69
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Keep Schaub in there the whole season, his sacks goes from 16 to 23. That puts him at 17th most sacked QB in the league last year. Say he avoids 1 sack every other game by throwing it away and that puts his sack total to 31 and gets our OL blamed for allowing the 8th most sacks in the league.

Now that's far from an exact science I will admit that but I think Schaub avoiding one sack every two games is extremely conservative. Could be wrong but that's something that would really interest me to find out. But admittingly will NOT take the time to worry about it.
Not only is it not an exact science, but it's entirely flawed logic. If I understand the first part of this, you're saying that if Schaub had played the whole season instead of being injured, our team sacks would have gone from 22 to 23? Okay - maybe, but so what?

Then you say if you add 8 sacks to our total for something every team in the league does (and do nothing to anybody else's), we would be 8th worst in the league. First, we'd be 15th best in the league - not 8th worst, but secondly, this makes about as much sense as saying "Yeah, but if the NFL counted every one of our sacks two times (and everyone else's only once), our statistics wouldn't look nearly as good.

Having said all that, if everything else is equal, I'd like to see the first round pick be an OLT or CB (if they don't trade the pick). If the best OLT/CB ranks a 75 on a scale of 1 - 100 and there's another player who's a 85 or better, I probably want to go with the 85.
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Old 02-12-2008   #70
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Post Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
We need a starter out of our first pick. I don't want to see us draft a LT and see him sit behind Salaam for a year. This team has way too many problems on defense to be picking a offensive lineman first so he can sit on the bench and watch.
If the bpa is a LT-I would take him even if he has to sit. I just don't want to start a rookie LT if Spencer comes back and plays RG. I like Salaam. We need his experience, but he won't be around forever. We need depth on our OL anyway. But I don't have a problem with taking a CB if he's the bpa.
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Old 02-12-2008   #71
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Twenty six gmes and counting.... tick tock. Kick Winston over there...Frye. lol...Chester Pitts? Jordan Black...or Butler. Tell me another one.

the facts are and they have been posted several times.....play off teams feature high round picks on the left side. Not third rounders...not fifth rounders, but guys drafted in the first two rounds. We have zero of those guys. And... have never ever done it.
Satisfied with the results are you cak ?
Can you miss on them ?..uh huh....can you live without them and make serious SB run....nope.

The very moment the Texans break their trends, that will be the first step to the Sb run. Not before.

.
ZBS mentality is not to draft OL high.

T Tony Jones - Undrafted
T/G Matt Lepsis - Undrafted (started 16 games his rookie year)
C Tom Nalen - 7th Round
G/C Dan Neil - 3rd round (only day one on here)
Harry Swayne - 7th Round
G - Mark Schlereth - 10th round

All of these players played 16 games for the 1998 Broncos team.
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Old 02-12-2008   #72
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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T/G Matt Lepsis - Undrafted (started 16 games his rookie year)
Lepsis didn't become a starter until his 3rd year.
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Old 02-12-2008   #73
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Lepsis didn't become a starter until his 3rd year.
Oh, sorry. Misread. Saw 1998, 16 games played. Didn't see all of special teams. Also, my source didn't show the 1997 season, he was out with a knee injury. I assumed it was 1998. Oh well, my point remains valid. ZBS doesn't need a OL high.
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Old 02-13-2008   #74
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

There are 2 positions gibbs will teach,line and rb. He will watch tape of certain rb's and line and determine if he can coach the guy or not. Its been stated that he hates linemen taken before the 3rd or so. I can't see him or kubes all of a sudden changing their thought process.

The superbowl just reafirms what thw texans have been trying to do. The only thing that effects the great qbs is pressure from the front 4. The front have to get pressure and the backend has to cover Its the oldest trick in the book and it stil works. The giants didn't peform a miracle by scheme or anything. They knew that u can't double team everyone on the line. The guys have to win their one on one battles.

That said, the d-line is getting better. Mario and Omobi can get the pressure, but johnson and weaver are not getting I done. Ryans is good, greenwood can go. Bennett is a keeper as well as dunta and demps for the right price. Safety should be a target n the 1st or 3rd rd. Fre agency will really tell what direction the team wil go in the draft.

I think this team is right there, they just need to keep building.
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Old 02-13-2008   #75
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Twenty six gmes and counting.... tick tock. Kick Winston over there...Frye. lol...Chester Pitts? Jordan Black...or Butler. Tell me another one.

the facts are and they have been posted several times.....play off teams feature high round picks on the left side. Not third rounders...not fifth rounders, but guys drafted in the first two rounds. We have zero of those guys. And... have never ever done it.

Satisfied with the results are you cak ?
Can you miss on them ?..uh huh....can you live without them and make serious SB run....nope.

The very moment the Texans break their trends, that will be the first step to the Sb run. Not before.

.

Superbowl LTs: Matt Light and D. Diehl- neither were 1st round

Flozell Adams
Tony Ugoh
MMcNeil.... I believe all three of those guys are 2nd round picks.

Okay, Winston and Spencer were the 1st two picks of the 3rd round. Pitts was selected in the middle of the 2nd round... those are all very close to where the above list was selected. My question, is what would you have done differently in the first and second rounds the past two years?

let's see: you'd replace Mario, Demeco, Okoye, or MSchaub... and, who would you have drafted instead. I'd argue that you can't improve on the draft even cherry-picking 1-2 years after the fact!

I share your frustration. I want a great line too. However, I also wanted a QB, a DL, a LB, CB would be nice, etc... The reality of a 2-14 team is that there are too many holes to fill.
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Old 02-13-2008   #76
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Oh well, my point remains valid. ZBS doesn't need a OL high.
I think the point is that this particular zone blocking team didn't need a 1st round pick on the offensive line. But, the '98 Broncos o-line was bought more than developed. Tony Jones was picked up in a trade with the Ravens for a 2nd round pick. Schlereth and Swayne were Super Bowls starters prior to signing with Denver as vet free agents. To duplicate how Denver put their line together, the Texans would have to trade a 1st day pick for a LT, and sign a couple of offensive linemen off the Giants and Patriots rosters.
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Old 02-13-2008   #77
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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I wouldn't mind a guy like Mendenhall or Stewart, a thick legged RB, but I don't think RB is a pressing enough need to take one in the first round.

thats exactly who i want
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Old 02-13-2008   #78
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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I think the point is that this particular zone blocking team didn't need a 1st round pick on the offensive line. But, the '98 Broncos o-line was bought more than developed. Tony Jones was picked up in a trade with the Ravens for a 2nd round pick. Schlereth and Swayne were Super Bowls starters prior to signing with Denver as vet free agents. To duplicate how Denver put their line together, the Texans would have to trade a 1st day pick for a LT, and sign a couple of offensive linemen off the Giants and Patriots rosters.
As usual, folks are far to ready to make gross over generalizations. In this thread we have two classic ones from Gibbs hates OL before the 2nd and you can't make a SB run without a top 2 rounds LT. Truth is of course in between.

If LT is arguably BPA in the 1st, great take one. If not go for the top BPA at a need position IMO.
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Old 02-13-2008   #79
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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As usual, folks are far to ready to make gross over generalizations. In this thread we have two classic ones from Gibbs hates OL before the 2nd and you can't make a SB run without a top 2 rounds LT. Truth is of course in between.

If LT is arguably BPA in the 1st, great take one. If not go for the top BPA at a need position IMO.
I agree. We (the MB) can sit here and cuss and discuss who we should take and when, but as someone stated earlier in the thread, the Texans still have too mant holes to fill. To me this will be another year it'd be difficult to get upset at who's picked. Unless of course we have a casserly and choose a holder or something of the sort. The past couple seasons Kubiak & SmithGM have been here, I feel confident enough to just sit back and watch the pros work.

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Old 02-13-2008   #80
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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If we had a decent O-LINE it would help the running game & the passing game. It would also keep a defense lacking in talent off the field. I believe this is a deep RB class & we can find a very productive rb in rds. 3 thru 5
Why is everyone still trying to make predictions on the draft? Until FA is over, you may as well be guessing on the 2012 Draft. If we sign a LT, or CB, or RB then everyone's theories are shot. Be patient and have faith in the FO. There will be at LEAST one surprise this offseason, I'm confident in that. Then we can have fun speculating on what needs we'll need to fill. You never know...we may get a RB, AND a CB in FA, and then it's fairly obvious we go for BPA in the 1st as far as LT or OLB.
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