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Old 02-12-2008   #41
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I think sack numbers don't really indicate the problems we still have on the oline. What I'm more concerned is hurries and knockdowns on a consistant basis. Those are the things that kill game plans and knock offenses out of sync. HWWNBN couldn't read a defense or make a pre-snap adjustment to save his career literally. The sack numbers went down because we got rid of the ball quickly and had QBS who could make pre-snap adjustments.

Good as AP is...keep in mind Chester Taylor did well before him.... I'm just going to point out the appearance of Steve Hutchinson and the ground game in Minnesota takes off....and the ground game in Seattle Tapers off.

Keep in mind GP what we would've had to do to move up to get AP.
I concur ; )

Edge may have lost a step when moving from Indy to Arizona but he was still a darn good RB. Couldn't really produce much and my guess is to blame the OL. Meanwhile- Addai steps in and does well in Indy. AP goes in behind the Minn. OL and does well. Let McFadden go to Oakland and see how well he does...my guess not very well (people will call him a bust). Put him behind a better OL and watch him do very well.

No question AP would have still been a man among boys here in Houston but I don't think he would have had the same season as he did in Minny.

My guess as far as trading up to get AP would be to move up to Washington's spot having to give them our 2007 1st and 3rd rd picks + 2008 3rd round pick. So we'd have Adrian Peterson (no Jacoby Jones), but we wouldn't have our 2008 2nd or 3rd round picks. Amobi Okoye, Jacoby Jones, and 2008 3rd round pick for Adrian Peterson? For the long term building of my team I say probably not...but jeez it's still almost a Push. Peterson is dynomite.
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Old 02-12-2008   #42
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

We spent $48 mil. on MS don't you think we should do everything we can to protect him? I bet KUBES does.
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Old 02-12-2008   #43
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

Bottom line is that the Texans passing offense was ranked 11th in the NFL. The Texans Defense was ranked 24th overall AND lost Dunta Robinson and three other DB's AND has no playmaker at OLB...

I think its fairly evident what side of the ball the Texans should be looking at first during the draft. If the right O-lineman is there, fine - but don't 'stretch' on a player as a knee-jerk reaction to a supposed or over-stated need..
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Old 02-12-2008   #44
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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He completed 67% of his passes...so he didn't throw the ball away as much as you think.
Keep Schaub in there the whole season, his sacks goes from 16 to 23. That puts him at 17th most sacked QB in the league last year. Say he avoids 1 sack every other game by throwing it away and that puts his sack total to 31 and gets our OL blamed for allowing the 8th most sacks in the league.

Now that's far from an exact science I will admit that but I think Schaub avoiding one sack every two games is extremely conservative. Could be wrong but that's something that would really interest me to find out. But admittingly will NOT take the time to worry about it.
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Old 02-12-2008   #45
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Bottom line is that the Texans passing offense was ranked 11th in the NFL. The Texans Defense was ranked 24th overall AND lost Dunta Robinson and three other DB's AND has no playmaker at OLB...

I think its fairly evident what side of the ball the Texans should be looking at first during the draft. If the right O-lineman is there, fine - but don't 'stretch' on a player as a knee-jerk reaction to a supposed or over-stated need..
Good points. I think the first round has a few options: (1) LT if he warrants the pick- Chris Williams? (2) Rashard Mendenhall at RB would be extremely tempting if he's even available (3) Trade down targeting a good ZBS LT like Anthony Collins (4) Go best available stressing secondary mainly CB like Talib, Jenkins, McKelvin, Cromartie, Cason, etc or trade down targeting a preferred couple of CB's
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Old 02-12-2008   #46
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
Keep Schaub in there the whole season, his sacks goes from 16 to 23. That puts him at 17th most sacked QB in the league last year.
Totally apples and oranges. You can't compare one QB projected on a whole season against a bunch of guys that didn't play the whole year. 23 sacks would have been 7th best in the league this year for a team and is a good total sack number in any year for any QB not named Aikman or Manning.

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that puts his sack total to 31 and gets our OL blamed for allowing the 8th most sacks in the league.
31 sacks on the season would have put the Texans at 15th best in the league in sacks, not 24th which gave up 43 sacks.
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Old 02-12-2008   #47
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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I used to be a "gotta' draft o line in the first round" guy.

And while I am happy with the Amobi pick...you have to stop and wonder what would our team look like if we had been able to step up a few slots in the draft and get Adrian Peterson?

Can you imagine what a TRUE threat at running back would have done for our passing game and our win total this season? We are on life support at running back. The "Draft a guy in the 7th, or get a UDFA" system is wearing me out.

Meanwhile, we're dropping in Sacks Allowed from 60+...to 40-something...and then last year's low 20s. That's a b-i-g reduction, consistently, over the past three seasons since Kubiak arrived and installed a real offense.

You guys DO realize that the vastly lowered "Sacks Allowed" numbers point to the idea that our o line is not as bad as we think/thought it was/is?

Just saying: What if we had a homerun hitter at running back?
I don't know. Is it the same offensive line with same offensive blocking schemes? Take an Rb like Earl Campbell and have him stay in and block the blitz. Is he still going to lead the NFL in rushing?
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Old 02-12-2008   #48
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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I don't know. Is it the same offensive line with same offensive blocking schemes? Take an Rb like Earl Campbell and have him stay in and block the blitz. Is he still going to lead the NFL in rushing?
Earl stayed in to block when we were blitzed...he had rotten hands and couldn't catch a cold.
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Old 02-12-2008   #49
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

Boy, its sure ironic how posters blamed the OL for sacks during Carr's time here but now do the polar opposite and blame all the sacks on Schaub.

Which is it? I just think its sad that one guy gets 5 years of failed promise and parades of excuses while the other guy gets blamed for shortcomings even in his first year as a starter.

Some people just think that once you draft an OT in teh 1st Round, that your line just magically transforms into pro bowl caliber. It's not that simple. It takes drafting guys in the later rounds like Pitts, Winston, Spencer, and Weary and making those guys into something. I don't think Gibbs is lobbying for the 1st Round pick to be used on OT. Go look at the OL around the league. It's painfully obvious you don't have to be some 5 star 1st Round pick to succeed and help your team compete. You just need good coaching and a good scheme....which I believe we have in Gibbs in regards to OL.
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Old 02-12-2008   #50
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Totally apples and oranges. You can't compare one QB projected on a whole season against a bunch of guys that didn't play the whole year. 23 sacks would have been 7th best in the league this year for a team and is a good total sack number in any year for any QB not named Aikman or Manning.
I'm not arguing 23 sacks isn't good. I'm saying that it's an inflated number because of Schaubs pocket presence. That it's not completely a result of better OL play that only 23 sacks would have been given up. I'm saying he cut down on the sacks to make it that good by getting rid of the ball like every good QB is taught to do.


31 sacks on the season would have put the Texans at 15th best in the league in sacks, not 24th which gave up 43 sacks.[/quote]

I was looking at the # sacks per QB this regular season starting with the most:
1. Jon Kitna sacked 51 times.
2. Ben Roethlisberger- 47x
3. Donovan McNabb- 44x
4. Marc Bulger- 37x
5. Damon Huard- 36x
6. Matt Hasselbeck- 33x
7. Joey Harrington- 32x

If Schaub would have played to whole Reg. season my guestimate would be appx. 23 sacks which would have been middle of the pack 17th. However, he was hurried a lot, hit a lot, etc.
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Old 02-12-2008   #51
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Bottom line is that the Texans passing offense was ranked 11th in the NFL. The Texans Defense was ranked 24th overall AND lost Dunta Robinson and three other DB's AND has no playmaker at OLB...

I think its fairly evident what side of the ball the Texans should be looking at first during the draft. If the right O-lineman is there, fine - but don't 'stretch' on a player as a knee-jerk reaction to a supposed or over-stated need..
Thank you, TB. You have injected solid logic into a Chicken Little thread.
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Old 02-12-2008   #52
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Earl stayed in to block when we were blitzed...he had rotten hands and couldn't catch a cold.
My point exactly. You can't take away what a player does best and then blame them for not doing their best. The oline underwent numerous co-ordinators and were not known for pass blocking skills under Capers. There has been tremendous turn over in players, so how can we say this oline is better that previous based on reduction of sacks? Could Kubes and perhaps Gibbs done better with our 2nd and third years oline?
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Old 02-12-2008   #53
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Earl stayed in to block when we were blitzed...he had rotten hands and couldn't catch a cold.
Very true.. As much as Earl was loved, he was somewhat a liability when it came to checking down or having a safety valve to throw to.. His hands were bricks... Fortunately, you knew that and schemed around it...
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Old 02-12-2008   #54
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I'm not arguing 23 sacks isn't good. I'm saying that it's an inflated number because of Schaubs pocket presence. That it's not completely a result of better OL play that only 23 sacks would have been given up. I'm saying he cut down on the sacks to make it that good by getting rid of the ball like every good QB is taught to do.


31 sacks on the season would have put the Texans at 15th best in the league in sacks, not 24th which gave up 43 sacks.

I was looking at the # sacks per QB this regular season starting with the most:
1. Jon Kitna sacked 51 times.
2. Ben Roethlisberger- 47x
3. Donovan McNabb- 44x
4. Marc Bulger- 37x
5. Damon Huard- 36x
6. Matt Hasselbeck- 33x
7. Joey Harrington- 32x

If Schaub would have played to whole Reg. season my guestimate would be appx. 23 sacks which would have been middle of the pack 17th. However, he was hurried a lot, hit a lot, etc.
If we had any semblance of running game the sack numbers would be smaller....you don't have to run deep patterns when you are in 3rd and short.
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Old 02-12-2008   #55
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
Boy, its sure ironic how posters blamed the OL for sacks during Carr's time here but now do the polar opposite and blame all the sacks on Schaub.

Which is it? I just think its sad that one guy gets 5 years of failed promise and parades of excuses while the other guy gets blamed for shortcomings even in his first year as a starter.

Some people just think that once you draft an OT in teh 1st Round, that your line just magically transforms into pro bowl caliber. It's not that simple. It takes drafting guys in the later rounds like Pitts, Winston, Spencer, and Weary and making those guys into something. I don't think Gibbs is lobbying for the 1st Round pick to be used on OT. Go look at the OL around the league. It's painfully obvious you don't have to be some 5 star 1st Round pick to succeed and help your team compete. You just need good coaching and a good scheme....which I believe we have in Gibbs in regards to OL.
Just out of curiosity who's blaming the sacks on Schaub?

2nd round pick- Chester Pitts (50)
3rd round picks- Fred Weary (66), Charles Spencer (65), Eric Winston (66)

I wouldn't necessarily call them later round picks, but do agree with your thinking. It takes good scouting and coaching. Get quality players and coach them the right way. Generally a 1st round LT that fits your scheme will be more athletic and probably be able to start quicker than a 4th+ rounder. I'm looking forward to Gibbs working with whomever he likes and gettin' this line put together.
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Old 02-12-2008   #56
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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If we had any semblance of running game the sack numbers would be smaller....you don't have to run deep patterns when you are in 3rd and short.
Agreed- plus it would keep the drives going, keeping the other teams D on the field. Keep our D on the sidelines resting a little more.

This isn't helping me come to ANY conclusion on our 1st round pick though (LT, RB, CB)... I'm glad I won't be forced to make the decision. There's perfect arguements for each!
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Old 02-12-2008   #57
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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I think sack numbers don't really indicate the problems we still have on the oline. What I'm more concerned is hurries and knockdowns on a consistant basis. Those are the things that kill game plans and knock offenses out of sync. HWWNBN couldn't read a defense or make a pre-snap adjustment to save his career literally. The sack numbers went down because we got rid of the ball quickly and had QBS who could make pre-snap adjustments.

Good as AP is...keep in mind Chester Taylor did well before him.... I'm just going to point out the appearance of Steve Hutchinson and the ground game in Minnesota takes off....and the ground game in Seattle Tapers off.

Keep in mind GP what we would've had to do to move up to get AP.
I agree that hurries and knockdowns are part of the overall equation.

Also, there IS something to the Seattle decline and the Vikings rise (as it relates to blocking). Well put.
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Old 02-12-2008   #58
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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If we had any semblance of running game the sack numbers would be smaller....you don't have to run deep patterns when you are in 3rd and short.
foxsports.com has us taking Mendenhall.

Would be fine with me.
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Old 02-12-2008   #59
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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If we had any semblance of running game the sack numbers would be smaller....you don't have to run deep patterns when you are in 3rd and short.
If we had a decent O-LINE it would help the running game & the passing game. It would also keep a defense lacking in talent off the field. I believe this is a deep RB class & we can find a very productive rb in rds. 3 thru 5
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Old 02-12-2008   #60
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Default Re: Truth & Rumors: Texans' draft plans include tackle

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
Boy, its sure ironic how posters blamed the OL for sacks during Carr's time here but now do the polar opposite and blame all the sacks on Schaub.

Which is it? I just think its sad that one guy gets 5 years of failed promise and parades of excuses while the other guy gets blamed for shortcomings even in his first year as a starter.
Seriously, do you think there is anyone on this MB that isn't well aware of your stance on Carr. Dude has been gone almost a year and yet the incessant references continue. Let it go. The Texans have moved on--time for you to as well.
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