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Old 01-22-2008   #1
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Default Kiper's Big Board

How the heck did Clady & Talib get up to 7 and 8?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/melkiper/index
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Old 01-22-2008   #2
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Clady is a top 10 prospect for sure. I'm not sure what Kiper is smoking on Talib.
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Old 01-22-2008   #3
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

What we have to remember with this and Mel's mocks is that he likes to throw out a TON of scenarios. That way on draft day he can point to his mock showing that he had that idea X months ago.
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Old 01-22-2008   #4
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

he is a nice return man, he pretty much beat Texas by himself.......(with good blocking of course) and hes a playmaking cb, alot of drafts have us picking him up...... im not agreeing with mel, just thrown yall some perspective.....
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Old 01-22-2008   #5
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Both of these guys he has overrated IMO. Maybe Clady should be up there at like 10-15 but Talib shouldn't be Top 10.
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Old 01-22-2008   #6
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Talib is the best CB in the draft. He has the size every team salivates over. He has produced the last two years. He was is multi-dimensional. He has good speed, great hands, loose hips and I would trust him to make every tackle on the LOS more than Daunta. He is aggressive and uses his longer arms to break the pass up effectivly.
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Old 01-23-2008   #7
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

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Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
Talib is the best CB in the draft. He has the size every team salivates over. He has produced the last two years. He was is multi-dimensional. He has good speed, great hands, loose hips and I would trust him to make every tackle on the LOS more than Daunta. He is aggressive and uses his longer arms to break the pass up effectivly.
Good speed only, last I checked he only runs a 4.5 so unless he has initial burst without the overrall speed he is not what I would say is 1st round material. I would put him in the second round though.
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Old 01-23-2008   #8
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Good speed only, last I checked he only runs a 4.5 so unless he has initial burst without the overrall speed he is not what I would say is 1st round material. I would put him in the second round though.
Beat me to it. He is a solid player, but Faggins showed why you need to have better than good speed to play CB. Now can he play Safety?

BTW I have been touting the guy all season on another board. So I am not trying to kill the guy. He just does not have elite speed, and 1st rounder usually have elite speed, not good speed. And I agree he has everything else you look for in a CB. I see him being a good fit for a cover 2 team.
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Old 01-23-2008   #9
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

I used to think that Kiper and the rest of his ESPN buddies were unbelievably
biased in favor of Reggie Bush. But now I'm starting to think its an institutional bias of all USC players more than anything, because for him to rank USCs Baker ahead of other OTs Williams & especially Otah is downright goofey. I dunno, is the guy trying to undermine his own credibility ? Several are already dropping Baker completely out of the first round while the other 2 OTs are going no where but up the rankings.
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Old 01-23-2008   #10
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Good speed only, last I checked he only runs a 4.5 so unless he has initial burst without the overrall speed he is not what I would say is 1st round material. I would put him in the second round though.
Then you haven't watched any of his game tape and shouldn't be giving a others on this board such non-sense. Talib would be great in the cover two or in a bump-n-run. He's big enough to play on the line, and can stay with recievers to make the play on the ball.
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Old 01-23-2008   #11
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

I want to know how Chris Long drops..for what reason Mel?
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Old 01-23-2008   #12
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Good speed only, last I checked he only runs a 4.5 so unless he has initial burst without the overrall speed he is not what I would say is 1st round material. I would put him in the second round though.

4.5 speed is good enough to be an elite CB. It's the on-field speed and quickness that matter. Often, the difference between a 4.3 guy and a 4.5 guy is simply track experience. If a CB throws up a 4.65, then I'd be concerned. However, if he looks fast and fluid on film and runs a 4.48, I'd be all over him.
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Old 01-23-2008   #13
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

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I used to think that Kiper and the rest of his ESPN buddies were unbelievably
biased in favor of Reggie Bush. But now I'm starting to think its an institutional bias of all USC players more than anything, because for him to rank USCs Baker ahead of other OTs Williams & especially Otah is downright goofey. I dunno, is the guy trying to undermine his own credibility ? Several are already dropping Baker completely out of the first round while the other 2 OTs are going no where but up the rankings.
Without commenting on the USC bias at all, because I have no idea, it depends on your view of Baker, IMO. Baker is the most polished left tackle in the draft, and should be rated even higher, but for a leg injury this year. He made it through his junior year with no significant injuries, but this year, it was a hamstring (I think?) that slowed him some. From a skill set perspective, I like him better than anyone. If the injury causes him to fall out of the first round, he'll be a huge steal, a la Winston for us, except better. JMO.
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Old 01-23-2008   #14
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Talib is being over-rated IMO he isn't good in man to man coverage and clady is boderline top ten and there is no we get him.
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Old 01-23-2008   #15
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Without commenting on the USC bias at all, because I have no idea, it depends on your view of Baker, IMO. Baker is the most polished left tackle in the draft, and should be rated even higher, but for a leg injury this year. He made it through his junior year with no significant injuries, but this year, it was a hamstring (I think?) that slowed him some. From a skill set perspective, I like him better than anyone. If the injury causes him to fall out of the first round, he'll be a huge steal, a la Winston for us, except better. JMO.
Baker isn't
a 1st round talent he is a 2nd round talent just like his old team meate Winston Justice who was rated as a 1st round talent and was drafted in the 2nd round by Philadelphia and he hasn't made it into the starting lineup yet.
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Old 01-23-2008   #16
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

There aren't a lot of speed demons at WR in the AFC South. But, there are some physical receivers, and Talib would be a good matchup with those guys. Plus, he's a corner that can make plays on the ball. Talib is someone the Texans would have to look at where they're sitting in the draft.
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Old 01-23-2008   #17
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

So here's a very important question concerning what CB's would fit our team.

What kind of CB are we really looking to get? What exactly are our defense/secondary schemes? Do we want a CB that is great in man-to-man coverage, bump and run, "bend but don't break", cover-2, etc????

Additionally, I'm one to believe that 4.5 speed isn't a problem. Like mentioned earlier, it's really about a players burst and quickness (not to discount the 40-time at all though). How quick are his instincts, how quick is he changing direction, how fluid are his hips? Fred Bennett was timed at the combine running 4.46, 4.49, 4.53. Now you can argue, well he went in the 4th round...and that's valid but this season I never really saw Fred getting beat badly and he was always making plays on the ball. It's more about the players game, being able to spot the ball, etc. than his straight-line speed.

So again I come back to which CB's would really fit our team? Kind of like looking at RB's and OL...3-4 vs 4-3 DE/LB's ...same applies for CB's. Now understood we're not going to have a shot at some but I think it's important for us to understand who would be a good fit. I'd really appreciate some help with that.
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Old 01-23-2008   #18
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Without commenting on the USC bias at all, because I have no idea, it depends on your view of Baker, IMO. Baker is the most polished left tackle in the draft, and should be rated even higher, but for a leg injury this year. He made it through his junior year with no significant injuries, but this year, it was a hamstring (I think?) that slowed him some. From a skill set perspective, I like him better than anyone. If the injury causes him to fall out of the first round, he'll be a huge steal, a la Winston for us, except better. JMO.
I dunno if his performance is still hindered by a leg injury, but before this week I probably shared your opinion about Baker. But I'm watching him this week on NFLNet from Mobile and he does not favorable impress like the other
2 top OTs there for the Sen-Bowl, Cherilus from BU & Williams from Vandy.
The guy looks sorta soft and definitely doesn't have much of the kind of demeanor one wants in an OLinemnan. And another negative is he has the
dreaded disadvantage of relatively short-arms for an OT (< 33"). The analyst
at NFLNet suggest he may actually need to be moved inside to guard.
Maybe my inital impression was misleading, so I'll try to keep an open mind for
the rest of his practice sessions from Mobile ?
I do know he'd be a good fit in Gibbs ZB system/schemes, as they ran a lot of that at USC and he is athletic. I dunno, maybe he'd be the perfect bookend Online match to go with Winston, but so far I'm not seeing it ? Guess it all depends upon where he ends up on the April Draft-Board ? And whether or not Gibbs likes him ?
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Old 01-23-2008   #19
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

I think the best thing Talib did was to intercept a pass in the bowl game on TV. I like a CB that can go nose to nose and cause havoc within five yards, run with the WR and time a break up. INTs are great but a knock down ball works for me.
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Old 01-23-2008   #20
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

lots of folks criticizing Kiper here that have no clue what they're talking about. hysterical.
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