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Old 01-09-2008   #101
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I think we'll now see the return of the H-back.
If I'm not mistaken, I've seen our TE line up at H-back.
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Old 01-09-2008   #102
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Default Re: Texans trying to hire Alex Gibbs...

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Originally Posted by WesmanTexanfan View Post
yes, me too, we neeeeeeeed a great O line coach, that would be sweeeeeeeeeet if we land him
What's this "if" business. It's a done deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3189246
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Old 01-09-2008   #103
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

This is really good news, Gibbs can do serious wonders for our run game.

Mini-Shanny must have quite the talent, he's on the fastrack, probably watched his dad coach since he was in diapers.

I don't guess we are getting a new DC, seems like only the fans think it is him?
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Old 01-09-2008   #104
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I think we'll now see the return of the H-back.
Makes me wonder what changes might come at the fullback position, and especially if or how it affects Leach. Also, how does Breuner fit into the H-back situation, if at all..? I don't know enough about the position, but I seem to recall it being more similar to a tight end type guy than a fullback. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 01-09-2008   #105
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Great move with Gibbs, this is one of those acquisitions that the fans on the MB's have been clamoring for for years.

Shanahan to OC, not a big deal. Kubiak primarily oversees the offense and does that pretty well, great opportunity for Shanahan to advance his career but shouldn't change our offense much if at all.

Richard Smith I'm torn on. For some small stretches of games our defense looks fearsome, some stretches we bend but don't break, and for big stretches we just break. He doesn't have a ton of talent to work with (especially in the secondary) but if you read the national opinions about our team we're considered to have more than our fair share of young studs manning the D (MW, AO, TJ, Ryans, DRob, now Bennett). One of my least favorite things about Smith is that his D gives up enormous games to lackluster offenses at times, and consistently gets slapped around by the good ones. The problem is with all of these young players on defense and all the change that's going on there, bringing in a new DC might actually bring that unit a step backwards. Just look at Denver, they bring in the big name DC last year in Bates, and they suck it up this year. Big names do not guarantee success. At this point I say hold on to Smith, get him some more players in the secondary, and potentially allow Bush to have a bigger hand in the grand scheme of things to freshen things up.
A couple of thoughts about today's hiring.

Two great things about this move:

1. It shows that Kubiak isn't all about him. That if he can find someone who he thinks will help, he is more the merrier. The former Denver hires on the staff have been the strongest parts of the offense.

2. It is a good thing for Shanny the younger. I was uncertain about him coming to the Texans until I heard him speak at a coaching clinic. You completely forget how old he is. He is very impressive talking football.

One of the best things at the coaching clinic he talked about was how things early in the game set up plays late in the game. That they watch defensive tendencies and then exploit them later in the game with certain play calls. It was neat seeing him show various examples of this. (notably part of the talk showed how the offensive line play in the ZBS could set up opposing teams for being exploited on the pass--we may be seeing more of this under Gibbs).

The plus for him is that he and Kubiak are completely on the same page. The negative for Shanny as OC is that if the offense struggled at all, the fanbase would be pointing fingers at him. It was harder to point fingers at Sherman because of his experience level, but less so if the struggles happen under Shanahan.

When you get someone like Gibbs to be assistant head coach, it gives Shanahan more coverage because you have so much experience on the offensive side of the ball that people won't put all the blame on him. So it is much more palatable to say Shanny for OC if you are doing it at the same time as getting Gibbs. Nice move.


As for your comment about Bates, he was always a meh in my book and not a big name. Nothing in his background suggested that he was a special type of coordinator. I am glad we passed on him.

That being said, I would love us to upgrade the defensive coaching if there is someone out there with the experience and track record that would be nice to see. Even if you have the caysh, you can't necessarily get the guy you want, so if they are looking to do a change, they are going to have to be pretty quiet about it or Smith gets hung out to dry.
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Old 01-09-2008   #106
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Makes me wonder what changes might come at the fullback position, and especially if or how it affects Leach. Also, how does Breuner fit into the H-back situation, if at all..? I don't know enough about the position, but I seem to recall it being more similar to a tight end type guy than a fullback. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The H-back is a mix between the FB and the TE. Whereas the TE is mostly used as an extra blocker and sometime receiver, the elite H-back usually is utilized as a "man for all seasons" in that he is expected to be a balanced mix of blocker, pass protector and receiver..........and he better have the brains of a QB, the hands of glue and the body of a battering ram...............
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Old 01-09-2008   #107
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
The H-back is a mix between the FB and the TE. Whereas the TE is mostly used as an extra blocker and sometime receiver, the elite H-back usually is utilized a "man for all seasons" in that he is expected to be a balanced mix of blocker, pass protector and receiver..........and he better have the brains of a QB, the hands of glue and the body of a battering ram...............
Owen Daniels? Hell, Kevin Walter although I'm not sure about him on blitz pickup, they did use him as a RB at times.
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Old 01-09-2008   #108
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
A couple of thoughts about today's hiring.

Two great things about this move:

1. It shows that Kubiak isn't all about him. That if he can find someone who he thinks will help, he is more the merrier. The former Denver hires on the staff have been the strongest parts of the offense.

2. It is a good thing for Shanny the younger. I was uncertain about him coming to the Texans until I heard him speak at a coaching clinic. You completely forget how old he is. He is very impressive talking football.

One of the best things at the coaching clinic he talked about was how things early in the game set up plays late in the game. That they watch defensive tendencies and then exploit them later in the game with certain play calls. It was neat seeing him show various examples of this. (notably part of the talk showed how the offensive line play in the ZBS could set up opposing teams for being exploited on the pass--we may be seeing more of this under Gibbs).

The plus for him is that he and Kubiak are completely on the same page. The negative for Shanny as OC is that if the offense struggled at all, the fanbase would be pointing fingers at him. It was harder to point fingers at Sherman because of his experience level, but less so if the struggles happen under Shanahan.

When you get someone like Gibbs to be assistant head coach, it gives Shanahan more coverage because you have so much experience on the offensive side of the ball that people won't put all the blame on him. So it is much more palatable to say Shanny for OC if you are doing it at the same time as getting Gibbs. Nice move.


As for your comment about Bates, he was always a meh in my book and not a big name. Nothing in his background suggested that he was a special type of coordinator. I am glad we passed on him.

That being said, I would love us to upgrade the defensive coaching if there is someone out there with the experience and track record that would be nice to see. Even if you have the caysh, you can't necessarily get the guy you want, so if they are looking to do a change, they are going to have to be pretty quiet about it or Smith gets hung out to dry.
He had a pretty good track record in his previous two stops at Miami and Green Bay. I recall an article or two about him being a diva and turning down DC jobs that wouldn't allow him complete control of the defense, I figured if he thought he had that much clout maybe he had enough of a reputation (aka big name) around the league to pull it off. Anyways, my only point is that hitting the reset button with a new DC who has a more recognizable name and/or history isn't necessarily going to help, and might indeed set us back with our young players who have just adapted (or are still adapting) to the current set up. However, if some guy becomes available who has a great track record and would fit in well then I wouldn't shed any tears over replacing someone who has been mediocre thus far.
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Old 01-09-2008   #109
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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One of the things I like about this is that I think it's going to make some offensive linemen want to come here to play.

I'm so psyched.
And RBs. If you are a FA you may come here for less money and more glory. RBs tend to really flurish in Gibbs system. Now to fix the defense...
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Old 01-09-2008   #110
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

Wish we could get a hold of Monte Kiffin as DC. I love the Monte Kiffin style defense.
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Old 01-09-2008   #111
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

guess I can do it now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU2yt6wOoK0
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Old 01-09-2008   #112
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Wish we could get a hold of Monte Kiffin as DC. I love the Monte Kiffin style defense.
+ 1 zillion
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Old 01-10-2008   #113
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Pete, that was one hell of a post last page. I played TE and a little bit of H-back in a ZBS in HS for 4 years and I never got it explained like that. Yeah, we had clinics and film sessions, but to break it down like that is remarkable. We also called it "rail blocking". All of the linemen and TE would power step or rail block left or right depending on the call. We ran a CWM offense as well, and the call was made at the line.

For example, when we were running middle zone left, rail left...the line would step hard left with a DT usually lined up in the 1 technique as he said. We were actually told to widen our gaps to encourage a DT to shoot a particular hole. Anyways, the LG would rail block left into the RDT in the 1 technique. His objective was to turn the DT's shoulders and allow for the C to take over the double team as the RB was about to hit the hole while the LG would continue on his "rail" to the left, engaging with a LB attempting to either fill the hole or flow to the ball. If the block was made at the second level, it created an easy and obvious cutback lane for the RB. It was like an easy 12 yards. If the LB was able to shed the LG block before the RB passed, it was still a 5 yard gain. Sure, the play in theory failed, but it was still a 5 yard run on a "failed" play. That is the beauty of a true ZBS. I as well could talk about principles and assignments for hours.
Good info. I was under the misguided impression that all zone plays were determined "on the fly" where the running back saw the hole open up. But from what you and Coach Dent are saying with the CWM principle, the "hole" is actually designated in a sense for inside and middle zone plays. Does this apply to the stretch play (Broncos style) as well?
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Old 01-10-2008   #114
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC



"It's all coming together now, Smithers."

Kubiak has mentioned a few times now the need to get a young left tackle. I interpreted him to mean someone besides Spencer. Meaning this draft. Meaning a young Texans LT could be getting coached up by one of the best o-line coaches ever. I don't want to jinx it by saying what else this could mean.

I wonder about pass protection though. Despite the Falcons' impressive rushing numbers, Vick got sacked a bunch. Was a lot of this on Vick, like the Carr effect? I do remember a lot of Falcons fans complaining about the mediocrity of their o-line and how Gibbs made it look a lot better than it was.

Last edited by Rex King; 01-10-2008 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 01-10-2008   #115
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

All this info on the "correct" zone blocking scheme makes me hope that Gibbs comes in and sets things straight.



Here is the thing though.. the use of fullbacks is not a "new" thing with the ZBS and the NFL. Fullbacks were used extensively in Denver while they were making the ZBS famous.

Now..its true that fullbacks in the "Denver" scheme were not used the same way others used them..yes they did run blocking but they were also (more importantly) used as receivers and for misdirection.. (I think...im pretty much talking out my ass here).

Anyway..my question is.. can the ZBS be implemented "fully" and still make use of our FB?

Either way..I hope Gibbs comes in and gives us a real honest-to-god direction to move forward with on the Oline.
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Old 01-10-2008   #116
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Here is the thing though.. the use of fullbacks is not a "new" thing with the ZBS and the NFL. Fullbacks were used extensively in Denver while they were making the ZBS famous.

Now..its true that fullbacks in the "Denver" scheme were not used the same way others used them..yes they did run blocking but they were also (more importantly) used as receivers and for misdirection.. (I think...im pretty much talking out my ass here).

Anyway..my question is.. can the ZBS be implemented "fully" and still make use of our FB?

Either way..I hope Gibbs comes in and gives us a real honest-to-god direction to move forward with on the Oline.
Well, I just went back and looked at some highlights of the Atlanta offense from 2005 and... voila... Fullbacks.

2005 was still Gibbs, right?
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Old 01-10-2008   #117
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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I wonder about pass protection though. Despite the Falcons' impressive rushing numbers, Vick got sacked a bunch. Was a lot of this on Vick, like the Carr effect? I do remember a lot of Falcons fans complaining about the mediocrity of their o-line and how Gibbs made it look a lot better than it was.
Vick definitely amplified the sacks. Their line was not a cast of all-stars, and Gibbs did make them look better than they were, talent-wise, but Vick exacerbated the sacks issue as well. Actually, a lot of scrambling QBs tend to do that. A decently mobile QB with good field awareness will thrive behind a well-coached ZBS line.
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Old 01-10-2008   #118
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

One thing about Gibbs and its widely known, gibbs doesn't like the use of high draft picks on lineman. Gibbs would rather develop a atheletic type lineman from the 3rd rd or so.
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Old 01-10-2008   #119
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Default Re: Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
The H-back is a mix between the FB and the TE. Whereas the TE is mostly used as an extra blocker and sometime receiver, the elite H-back usually is utilized as a "man for all seasons" in that he is expected to be a balanced mix of blocker, pass protector and receiver..........and he better have the brains of a QB, the hands of glue and the body of a battering ram...............
Ahem...and not fumble.
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Old 01-10-2008   #120
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Default Re: Texans trying to hire Alex Gibbs...

great move with gibbs..

and about smith, remember last year we did blitz quite a bit so i think we might see more of it in the future if the secondary gets settled

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