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Old 01-08-2008   #21
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
So he needs to stop being like VY and not let his ego get in the way?
?!?! Did I say Mario sucks? No, I said he was inconsistent and disappeared in many games when there wasn't something extra for him to play for. Mario does not deserve any sort of Player of the Year award (and has already won one). Some Houston fans are so into stats because they somehow think they give a player legitimacy and some rite of passage. Stats mean nothing. Its about championships and playoffs. If Mario would have shown up against the Browns or Falcons, maybe we could mention him since the Texans would have made the playoffs....but Texans fans such as yourself seem more happy cheering on the failures of others rather than the merits of your own. Sad and pathetic.

For you to bring VY up into this thread is just sad and displays a level of intelligent discourse that is sorely lacking. Try again, please.

Mario had a great year but not a POY year. Period. End of story. Keep your childish hatred to yourself. thanks.
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Old 01-08-2008   #22
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
?!?! Did I say Mario sucks? No, I said he was inconsistent and disappeared in many games when there wasn't something extra for him to play for. Mario does not deserve any sort of Player of the Year award (and has already won one). Some Houston fans are so into stats because they somehow think they give a player legitimacy and some rite of passage. Stats mean nothing. Its about championships and playoffs. If Mario would have shown up against the Browns or Falcons, maybe we could mention him since the Texans would have made the playoffs....but Texans fans such as yourself seem more happy cheering on the failures of others rather than the merits of your own. Sad and pathetic.

For you to bring VY up into this thread is just sad and displays a level of intelligent discourse that is sorely lacking. Try again, please.

Mario had a great year but not a POY year. Period. End of story. Keep your childish hatred to yourself. thanks.
* Mario Williams gets 45.7% of the sacks for the Texans. The highest percentage in the NFL.

>What does this imply? A. He is making a great individual effort; B. The rest of the line is not helping him out much.

* The secondary is horrible and played vanilla coverages.

>What this means for Williams is that he has little time to pressure the QB because the secondary isn't forcing too many coverage sacks.

* The offense struggled holding on to the ball and often the Texans had to play from behind.

>What this means for Williams is that in many games, the opposing offenses weren't forced into passing the ball to get back into a game. It is easier to have an impact when an offense becomes one dimensional.

* The nicest thing you can say about the Texans defensive coordinator is that he is inexperienced.

>What this means for Williams is that it's not likely that the scheme is really helping the players play past their potential.

Even so, that Williams was able to stand out and have a big impact in games is amazing given the scheme and imbalanced defensive line, and sketchy secondary.

Bob Sanders is a remarkable player. He is also helped by an offense that tends to put opposing teams in a hole very quickly. Their defense is a light fast defense built on the premise that the offense is going to do them favors, and that they can tee off on opposing offenses who become one-dimensional.

You say that the decision is a no-brainer and baselessly accuse Williams of loafing. Personally, I think that it is okay to have the point of view that you think Sanders did a better job, but I believe that your opinion that Williams was loafing is completely and utterly off the mark, and probably intentionally provocative. (Though I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have no idea how rudely worded and off-base some of your posts come across).

Kubiak throughout the season said he was one of the most consistent players on the team, he played 95% of the snaps--a crazy high number for a defensive lineman, and he was pleased with Williams' effort.

What would Williams have to do to stop you from grumbling about him? Kill Osama? Mediate world peace? Put Peyton Manning's head on a stick and run around Reliant doing a victory lap?
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Old 01-08-2008   #23
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

I have voted 42 times so far!! LOL
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Old 01-08-2008   #24
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
So he needs to stop being like VY and not let his ego get in the way?
Nothing so complicated, just have a "mnaly" embreace with LenDale White.



TC, wonderfully said as always.
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Old 01-08-2008   #25
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

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Shame on you for choosing common sense over blind tribal loyalty.
It's called getting positive publicity out. Sorry I'm proud of the Texans and want to see their name mentioned for two seconds on ESPN without followed by the word "injury". I live in Dallas, and would love to see a Houston game sometime, but since there is no positive publicity about the Texans, noone else here cares about seeing them, so I end up watching a Browns vs Bengals game at the beginning of the season. None of these awards mean anything at all. The players only like them so they can try to turn it into better contracts....which it won't. Performance is what matters, so if me and hundreds of other people use their time voting 1000 freakin times trying to help make it at least a close call, then who are you to talk? I couldn't care less if Bob Sanders deserves the award, b/c he's going to make Millions as a reward already, and the award isn't going to get the Colts MORE hype, they're already hyped up enough as it is.

Sorry gotta go, I'm going to go vote for a Texan now...a blind homer and proud of it.
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Old 01-08-2008   #26
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
* Mario Williams gets 45.7% of the sacks for the Texans. The highest percentage in the NFL.

>What does this imply? A. He is making a great individual effort; B. The rest of the line is not helping him out much.

* The secondary is horrible and played vanilla coverages.

>What this means for Williams is that he has little time to pressure the QB because the secondary isn't forcing too many coverage sacks.

* The offense struggled holding on to the ball and often the Texans had to play from behind.

>What this means for Williams is that in many games, the opposing offenses weren't forced into passing the ball to get back into a game. It is easier to have an impact when an offense becomes one dimensional.

* The nicest thing you can say about the Texans defensive coordinator is that he is inexperienced.

>What this means for Williams is that it's not likely that the scheme is really helping the players play past their potential.

Even so, that Williams was able to stand out and have a big impact in games is amazing given the scheme and imbalanced defensive line, and sketchy secondary.

Bob Sanders is a remarkable player. He is also helped by an offense that tends to put opposing teams in a hole very quickly. Their defense is a light fast defense built on the premise that the offense is going to do them favors, and that they can tee off on opposing offenses who become one-dimensional.

You say that the decision is a no-brainer and baselessly accuse Williams of loafing. Personally, I think that it is okay to have the point of view that you think Sanders did a better job, but I believe that your opinion that Williams was loafing is completely and utterly off the mark, and probably intentionally provocative. (Though I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have no idea how rudely worded and off-base some of your posts come across).

Kubiak throughout the season said he was one of the most consistent players on the team, he played 95% of the snaps--a crazy high number for a defensive lineman, and he was pleased with Williams' effort.

What would Williams have to do to stop you from grumbling about him? Kill Osama? Mediate world peace? Put Peyton Manning's head on a stick and run around Reliant doing a victory lap?
QFT, must spread the rep around.

Damn It!
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Old 01-08-2008   #27
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
* Mario Williams gets 45.7% of the sacks for the Texans. The highest percentage in the NFL.

>What does this imply? A. He is making a great individual effort; B. The rest of the line is not helping him out much.

* The secondary is horrible and played vanilla coverages.

>What this means for Williams is that he has little time to pressure the QB because the secondary isn't forcing too many coverage sacks.

* The offense struggled holding on to the ball and often the Texans had to play from behind.

>What this means for Williams is that in many games, the opposing offenses weren't forced into passing the ball to get back into a game. It is easier to have an impact when an offense becomes one dimensional.

* The nicest thing you can say about the Texans defensive coordinator is that he is inexperienced.

>What this means for Williams is that it's not likely that the scheme is really helping the players play past their potential.

Even so, that Williams was able to stand out and have a big impact in games is amazing given the scheme and imbalanced defensive line, and sketchy secondary.

Bob Sanders is a remarkable player. He is also helped by an offense that tends to put opposing teams in a hole very quickly. Their defense is a light fast defense built on the premise that the offense is going to do them favors, and that they can tee off on opposing offenses who become one-dimensional.

You say that the decision is a no-brainer and baselessly accuse Williams of loafing. Personally, I think that it is okay to have the point of view that you think Sanders did a better job, but I believe that your opinion that Williams was loafing is completely and utterly off the mark, and probably intentionally provocative. (Though I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have no idea how rudely worded and off-base some of your posts come across).

Kubiak throughout the season said he was one of the most consistent players on the team, he played 95% of the snaps--a crazy high number for a defensive lineman, and he was pleased with Williams' effort.

What would Williams have to do to stop you from grumbling about him? Kill Osama? Mediate world peace? Put Peyton Manning's head on a stick and run around Reliant doing a victory lap?
show up to every game and not just when its convenient or the lights are on. he had a very good year but POY? give me a break. he would disappear in some games and make little to no effort. Kearney, Sanders, and Haynesworth are all much more deserving of the honor. Why does that make me a bad guy for having that opinion?

I have been saying lots of good things about Mario but to say he is the Player of the Year in the NFL on the defensive side is laughable at best IMHO.

i love Mario and his durability and development already have me happy with the selection of him, but lets back away from POY talk and things of this nature. He isn't at that level yet although he is MUCH closer than he was at the beginnning of teh season. I just hope he can help make the rest of the team better like Okoye. Then we could really have a bull in a china shop defense.
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Old 01-08-2008   #28
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
show up to every game and not just when its convenient or the lights are on. he had a very good year but POY? give me a break. he would disappear in some games and make little to no effort. Kearney, Sanders, and Haynesworth are all much more deserving of the honor. Why does that make me a bad guy for having that opinion?

I have been saying lots of good things about Mario but to say he is the Player of the Year in the NFL on the defensive side is laughable at best IMHO.

i love Mario and his durability and development already have me happy with the selection of him, but lets back away from POY talk and things of this nature. He isn't at that level yet although he is MUCH closer than he was at the beginnning of teh season. I just hope he can help make the rest of the team better like Okoye. Then we could really have a bull in a china shop defense.
I am not saying you are a bad guy. I am saying that as it relates to this point, you are repeating yourself that Mario Williams is loafing without any factual information backing up what you are saying. And then you suggest that he doesn't make the rest of the team better?

You can suggest that other players are more deserving of the honor and back up what you are saying about that. You don't have to denigrate Williams' effort without evidence to make that case for other players.

When you are trashing an athlete's effort with no factual basis for doing so, well then I don't think that makes you a bad guy, I just think that suggests that you don't care if what you are saying makes any sense at all or that you are just saying provocative things just to be provocative.
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Old 01-08-2008   #29
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

point taken, tc.

Kearney was dominating the Skins OL and helped his team win their playoff game. He played at a pretty high level all season and had a hand in his team reaching the playoffs and having a good defense.

Sanders is the spiritual leader of a Colts defense that is coming off a Super Bowl victory. His return has validated teh Colts D as top quality, even without Freeney.

Haynesworth is probably the most hated DL in the league but its not all due to him having no class, being a cheapshot artist, and basically being a total douchebag. He is also arguably the most dominant defensive force in the NFL. He would be a long shot but if he wasn't such a jerk, he would probably be a shoo-in.

I just couldnt give any player from the Texans the DPOY award after how badly they played as a unit. Mario played well at times, phenomenally well, but the unit as a whole struggled mightily. I don't blame Mario for that but I do give a little extra credit to those candidates whose defensive squads were moer successful than Mario's defensive squad. I lay a lot of the blame on poor coaching but i just cant see a DPOY being on a squad so poorly rated like the Texans' defense is/was.

GO TEXAN IN 2008!! 10-6 Wild Card Berth
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Old 01-08-2008   #30
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Mario is a young player who is still trying to learn the position. As I have said before, it's pretty evident that he didn't have to do much in college beyond using his strength, speed, and size to get to the QB. In fact, when he went up against some of the better teams, that's when he "disappeared". He has to learn technique, and you could see him getting better all season. People who are learning things cannot apply them at full speed until they've internalized those things. That takes time, and even more importantly, repetitions. As Mario continues to get reps and incorporate more nuances into his techniques, he will get even better. Comparing his year to Kerney, or Allen, or whomever is not a good way to get an accurate assessment.

Mario didn't disappear at all this year. He was/is still learning. You can complain that he wasn't worth the #1 pick overall, given that he wasn't very polished yet, but that story has been rehashed a thousand times, and Mario is earning his stripes faster than the alternatives. So ...... whatever.
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Old 01-08-2008   #31
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Mario is a young player who is still trying to learn the position. As I have said before, it's pretty evident that he didn't have to do much in college beyond using his strength, speed, and size to get to the QB. In fact, when he went up against some of the better teams, that's when he "disappeared". He has to learn technique, and you could see him getting better all season. People who are learning things cannot apply them at full speed until they've internalized those things. That takes time, and even more importantly, repetitions. As Mario continues to get reps and incorporate more nuances into his techniques, he will get even better. Comparing his year to Kerney, or Allen, or whomever is not a good way to get an accurate assessment.

Mario didn't disappear at all this year. He was/is still learning. You can complain that he wasn't worth the #1 pick overall, given that he wasn't very polished yet, but that story has been rehashed a thousand times, and Mario is earning his stripes faster than the alternatives. So ...... whatever.

Actually, though I agree with your main point, and believe that Williams is still improving and learning technique, I disagree with the highlighted section. Actually, from what I understand from someone who watched him his entire career, he had some very good games against good competition.

He had three different defensive coordinators while at NC St, and each of the coordinators wanted him to do different things. Some of them dropped him into coverage at times, or had him play mostly contain and not really rushing. So, though some of the things he did didn't show up as sack statistics, it wasn't like he wasn't contributing at all.
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Old 01-08-2008   #32
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Excellent posts as always TC.

As for SH, i've been reading his comments on football and other sports and baselessly accusing Mario of "loafing" seems to be the status quo as far as his posts are concerned. He has proven to me that if he has an agenda, he will push it facts be damned!!!
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Old 01-08-2008   #33
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
* Mario Williams gets 45.7% of the sacks for the Texans. The highest percentage in the NFL.

>What does this imply? A. He is making a great individual effort; B. The rest of the line is not helping him out much.

* The secondary is horrible and played vanilla coverages.

>What this means for Williams is that he has little time to pressure the QB because the secondary isn't forcing too many coverage sacks.

* The offense struggled holding on to the ball and often the Texans had to play from behind.

>What this means for Williams is that in many games, the opposing offenses weren't forced into passing the ball to get back into a game. It is easier to have an impact when an offense becomes one dimensional.

* The nicest thing you can say about the Texans defensive coordinator is that he is inexperienced.

>What this means for Williams is that it's not likely that the scheme is really helping the players play past their potential.

Even so, that Williams was able to stand out and have a big impact in games is amazing given the scheme and imbalanced defensive line, and sketchy secondary.

Bob Sanders is a remarkable player. He is also helped by an offense that tends to put opposing teams in a hole very quickly. Their defense is a light fast defense built on the premise that the offense is going to do them favors, and that they can tee off on opposing offenses who become one-dimensional.

You say that the decision is a no-brainer and baselessly accuse Williams of loafing. Personally, I think that it is okay to have the point of view that you think Sanders did a better job, but I believe that your opinion that Williams was loafing is completely and utterly off the mark, and probably intentionally provocative. (Though I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have no idea how rudely worded and off-base some of your posts come across).

Kubiak throughout the season said he was one of the most consistent players on the team, he played 95% of the snaps--a crazy high number for a defensive lineman, and he was pleased with Williams' effort.

What would Williams have to do to stop you from grumbling about him? Kill Osama? Mediate world peace? Put Peyton Manning's head on a stick and run around Reliant doing a victory lap?
Stupid, you must spread Reputation around, rule.

I am going to randomly rep people just so I can rep this.
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Old 01-11-2008   #34
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-defense

bump... but watch the vid on the top right of the link- the last 20 seconds are priceless
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Old 01-13-2008   #35
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Voting a SS defensive player of year is like voting an OG offensive player of the year.

No disrespect to Sanders (or Adrian Wilson who is incredible as well) but strong safety is probably the easiest position on the field to fill.
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Old 01-15-2008   #36
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Default Re: Vote MW for GMC Defensive POY

Eh, I don't think he deserves it over some of the other players nominated this year, but if our secondary gets better, and if we have more TEAM success he's going to stak up the awards.

BTW, anyone else notice he's the only player nominated whose team is not in the playoffs? He's earned a lot of respect last year.
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