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Old 12-30-2007   #21
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
I would also add, "bye, bye Andre Davis", because its probably too late for us to resign him as his value had been rising on the FA market but after today
he's gonna be priced at a higher number than we may be willing to pay.
Quite possible!
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Old 12-30-2007   #22
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Obviously, the Texans keep Davis. But, Mathis is a RFA and would bring a 4th round pick if some team signs him to an offer sheet. I think the Texans have to at least tender Mathis at the lowest amount.
I just don't think he is worth the roster spot after averaging a handfull of games each season. The money and the talent might be right, but the health isn't.

Davis has been impressive and got past his injury bug - at least this year.
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Old 12-30-2007   #23
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
I would also add, "bye, bye Andre Davis", because its probably too late for us to resign him as his value had been rising on the FA market but after today
he's gonna be priced at a higher number than we may be willing to pay.
While I don't remember seeing it at the game, I heard on the radio that Davis was making a slot machine motion in the endzone after each TD. Apparently, he is aware of his value. It'll be interesting to see how much money he signs for next season.
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Old 12-30-2007   #24
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
One thought, if Mathis is cheap (not sure and can't be bothered) why not keep him too, see if he can stay healthy and have another deep threat to go with AJ, Walter, JJ, AD?
Why keep a guy who is HABITUALLY injured. It doesn't matter how cheap you get him, he is still costing the team money to sit at his home and watch the game.

AD completely proved his worth to this team this year. I can see him as a major part of the receiving team for the next several seasons. His play when AJ was out was superb and the guy has just shown the rest of the NFL that he is a solid player.

We need to resign this guy...ASAP. AD going somewhere else would be a major loss.
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Old 12-30-2007   #25
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
While I don't remember seeing it at the game, I heard on the radio that Davis was making a slot machine motion in the endzone after each TD. Apparently, he is aware of his value. It'll be interesting to see how much money he signs for next season.
Pay him....he's worth it. He actually makes a difference in the games. Start 86'ing some of the non-performers...let them know that poor play won't be tolerated.
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Old 12-30-2007   #26
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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It would suck to see another team get him. Since he's a FA I'm worried about him walking. I hope he enjoys playing for us and appreciates that the Texans gave him a chance. That might be all we have going for us.
Agreed. Any team that wants to play for us is welcome in my book.
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Old 12-30-2007   #27
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Obviously, the Texans keep Davis. But, Mathis is a RFA and would bring a 4th round pick if some team signs him to an offer sheet. I think the Texans have to at least tender Mathis at the lowest amount.
At the lowest tender he would bring a 7th round pick isnt that right? Or is it actually based on where the player is drafted? then the next brings a 3rd and then the highest tender has to give up a 1st and 3rd. I am pretty sure thats how it works correct me if I am wrong. Anyway it does not actually hurt us to sign Mathis to the middle tender, its still only like 700k for a season and then if he isnt working out then say see ya. I like the idea of bringing him back but at this point it should be Davis' job to lose and not the other way around.
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Old 12-31-2007   #28
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

I can't believe I'm about to write something nice about a Hokie, but here goes:

Show Andre Davis the money. The man can (and, nearly as important, does) play. For those worrying about whether he is one of those guys who's only going to perform in a contract year--always a legit subject of concern--don't. Unlike his former teammates Dogfighter Vick and MeLo Hall (and a host of other lesser miscreants), Davis has always been a solid citizen and a good lockerroom guy. It's the ones with attitude who tend to go slack once they've gotten paid; that won't be Davis.

In addition, a guy who's one year removed from being a street free agent won't be getting a boatload of guaranteed money in a new contract, even one who's had as good a year as Davis. So he'll still have to play hard to earn his money even if he was solely about the $$$.

Man, I feel dirty typing those last two paragraphs.
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Old 12-31-2007   #29
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

Odds are that Mathis is gone and AD will take over as the primary kickoff returner. If only he could stay healthy.
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Old 12-31-2007   #30
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

Its fortunate that we have Mathis salary which can be donated to the resign Andre Davis fund.
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Old 12-31-2007   #31
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
I would also add, "bye, bye Andre Davis", because its probably too late for us to resign him as his value had been rising on the FA market but after today
he's gonna be priced at a higher number than we may be willing to pay.
I kinda disagree with this. I believe he wants a home and he likes it here. I have no problem with signing him to very nice #3 reciever money. And I believe if the incentives are in line...he'll do the deal. TBS if they do resign him I hold to my belief that he is what he is. Strickly a role player and nothing more. Over paying for him would be a cap mistake.
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Old 12-31-2007   #32
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
I would also add, "bye, bye Andre Davis", because its probably too late for us to resign him as his value had been rising on the FA market but after today
he's gonna be priced at a higher number than we may be willing to pay.
I was joking with a friend when I said after the first one run out onto the field with a contract and after the second my firend said you better bring a bigger contract than the one you have.
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Old 12-31-2007   #33
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Cool Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Have fun with your next team.

AD can run em back, plus play wide receiver.
Who?
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Old 12-31-2007   #34
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

Being a WR5 and back up KR while injured for most of his career provides no leverage with the Texans or any other NFL team. Mathis has his work cut out for him to make any roster next year.
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Old 12-31-2007   #35
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
At the lowest tender he would bring a 7th round pick isnt that right? Or is it actually based on where the player is drafted?
The lowest tender compensation is based upon where the player is drafted. In Mathis' case, the 4th round. Remember, just because you tender a RFA doesn't mean his contract is guaranteed. Also remember that not so long ago, Mathis was a Pro Bowl returner. And returners are gaining importance in the collective mind of the NFL.
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Old 12-31-2007   #36
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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I just don't think he is worth the roster spot after averaging a handfull of games each season. The money and the talent might be right, but the health isn't.

Davis has been impressive and got past his injury bug - at least this year.
Although JJ Moses never returned one for a TD...he only fumbled the ball once (but yet he recovered it himself)...and was able to give us really good field position most of the time.

And they let him go. Very unceremoniously.

So I agree with Runner here: Just because he made a few plays here and there, don't start thinking that the guy is worth a bloated contract as a top tier receiver along the same lines as AJ or Moss or Owens, etc.

There's enough weapons on this team (AJ, Daniels, Jacoby, Daniels) and some more guys coming (draft) who can fill the void. Had AD been an every-game-guy who also was racking up yards AND catches, then I could see it.

But catching a few deep balls (due to his speed) and returning three kickoffs for TDs (due to his speed) does not, in my book, qualify a roster spot AND a huge contract--Both of which can be used on other needs.

I'm just saying: McNair is not accustomed to shelling out the bucks. Maybe Kubiak and Smith can beg Daddy McNair for some extra allowance to keep AD around since he does indeed play WR and KR...but I'll believe it when I see it. AD will get paid....by someone else.
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Old 12-31-2007   #37
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Although JJ Moses never returned one for a TD...he only fumbled the ball once (but yet he recovered it himself)...and was able to give us really good field position most of the time.

And they let him go. Very unceremoniously.

So I agree with Runner here: Just because he made a few plays here and there, don't start thinking that the guy is worth a bloated contract as a top tier receiver along the same lines as AJ or Moss or Owens, etc.

There's enough weapons on this team (AJ, Daniels, Jacoby, Daniels) and some more guys coming (draft) who can fill the void. Had AD been an every-game-guy who also was racking up yards AND catches, then I could see it.

But catching a few deep balls (due to his speed) and returning three kickoffs for TDs (due to his speed) does not, in my book, qualify a roster spot AND a huge contract--Both of which can be used on other needs.

I'm just saying: McNair is not accustomed to shelling out the bucks. Maybe Kubiak and Smith can beg Daddy McNair for some extra allowance to keep AD around since he does indeed play WR and KR...but I'll believe it when I see it. AD will get paid....by someone else.
Is it me, or does anyone else think you don't know what a salary cap is? It will be Kubiak and Smith's call as to whether or not AD is kept, and if he is, what to pay him. McNair already knows what the salary cap limit is. Why would he have any reason to get involved?
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Old 12-31-2007   #38
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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I'm just saying: McNair is not accustomed to shelling out the bucks. Maybe Kubiak and Smith can beg Daddy McNair for some extra allowance to keep AD around since he does indeed play WR and KR...but I'll believe it when I see it. AD will get paid....by someone else.
On the contrary, McNair is all too accustomed to shelling out big bucks ... to non-deserving players. I have a feeling they'll be able to work something out with Davis - although Davis' agent will undoubtedly try to leverage a deal with a WR poor team against the Texans.
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Old 12-31-2007   #39
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
Is it me, or does anyone else think you don't know what a salary cap is? It will be Kubiak and Smith's call as to whether or not AD is kept, and if he is, what to pay him. McNair already knows what the salary cap limit is. Why would he have any reason to get involved?
LOL.

Oh boy.

I know that you THINK that it all works that way, and that's nice that you have this fantasy built up that an owner just wears a blazer and sits up in the luxury box during games...maybe glad-handing a few political or entertainment dignataries during some photo shoots. It's "neat" that you think the coaches are given piles of monopoly money to just run out and get whoever they want. It's sweet that you think the owner puffs a cigar, sticks his hand out to his coach and GM, and pats them on the back while telling them "I trust you boys, so you just go get us one heckuva' team and we'll see how it goes!"

But I gotta say that us hiring RICHARD SMITH as DC was probably the thing that tiped me off to the idea that Bob McNair has limits on what he pays the staff. Grabbing RS as DC was a penny pinching move. If RS was 4th or 5th on Kubiak's wish list, then why didn't we get the first 3 or 4 on Kubiak's list? Probably salary, if I'm guessing.

BTW, last season...the Colts spent all of their cap money and Peyton Manning even RE-NEGOTIATED to help out, just so the team could afford to upgrade their team.

Teams have one of two types of owners: Hobby owners and Business owners. Hobby Owners (Jerry Jones) want to to try and make some money along the way, but they are miserable if they aren't winning...they take the winning/losing aspect verrrrry seriously. McNair is a business owner, always ensuring the team stays fiscally responsible no matter what.

Have we EVER spent what's allowed in the cap? Since I don't know much...you can enlighten me. Oh, well, I'll do it for you--We've NEVER come close to spending our cap allowance. EVER. When a guy like Grady Jackson became a free agent this season, I knew we (a) wouldn't pursue him, and (b) we wouldn't get him. Can you imagine what a run stuffing guy like that could do for finesses guys like Mario and Amobi? We just simply do not take those financial risks. It "costs" too much--BTW, I think GJ only got a one-year deal from Jax, right?. It would have been nice to see what a guy like that would do on our line with guys like Amobi and Mario flanking him. Meanwhile, our rival (Jax) scoops him up. It's a no-brainer.

McNair is a tycoon. And him "bringing the NFL" back to Houston does not get him a pass, IMO, for his controlling measures as it relates to consistently bypassing players who are considered to be top tier.

We supposedly have about 20 zillion in cap space this off-season. I would love to see how much of it actually gets spent.

And by the way, there's NO CAP SPACE for coaching contracts. So why don't we have a top DC on staff? Money issues. McNair is going to spend as little as he can. Always. It's how he got rich, and it's how he's running this team.

You get a guy like Bob Kraft or the Rooney family or Jerry Jones--guys who are tycoons, but who bankroll their teams every year--and you get competitive sons-a-guns who want to win all the time.

To me, Bobby McNearly comes off as a laid back Business owner who wants to watch the bottom line most of all. So sue me for my opinion, ye of 2 posts.
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Old 12-31-2007   #40
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Default Re: Bye Bye Jerome Mathis

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On the contrary, McNair is all too accustomed to shelling out big bucks ... to non-deserving players. I have a feeling they'll be able to work something out with Davis - although Davis' agent will undoubtedly try to leverage a deal with a WR poor team against the Texans.
Shelling out bucks to bad players is more of a result, IMO, of a situation whereby coaches (Dom and Kubiak) have probably learned that they had spending limits. They had an "allowance," so to speak.

Why else are we getting such bums in here, cycling through so many tons of manure posing as what we've been told are "real gems" who just needed a place to play?

We get what we pay for. It's how it works when YOU spend YOUR money, and it's what we get when a Business Owner tries to make sure we stay at the top of the list in the NFL as "Most Profitable" NFL teams. We're up there, at around the 10th or 11th "Most Profitable" teams.

And that's of little comfort to a guy like me who wants to win or go broke trying. Al Davis is a tycoon who spends a lot of money, and he IS a guy who directly picks his players. But McNair is a "No" guy, IMO, as it relates to his coaches and GMs coming to him for permission to spend some bucks.

I'm telling you guys--We will be BLESSED by God Himself if we somehow get a playoff caliber team with the way McNair spends money. The guy is a nice man, he's a character guy, and I appreciate that aspect. But I do not see him having the same "drive" as other owners when it comes to winning or losing. He's focused primarily on the business aspect of running this team. And the ramifications trickle down to the field...in a very slow trickle.
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