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Old 11-22-2004   #1
mdfan
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Default 4-3 Defense Please

We do not have the right guys for 3-4 defense, and how about Dave Wandstedt for defensive coordinator for next season. Chris Palmer never did like his skills or Dom Capers, to conservative, and people keep saying what Dom Capers did when he was in Jacksonville, that's past tense, what he did in the past is in the past, we talking now in the future, today. If what you're doing isn't winning games, try something different. You say we don't have the right personnel, you don't know what these playere can do until you try them out and see. If tha don't work fine something that will. I"m a season ticket holder and now considering selling my last three tickets, because this team isn't worth watching.
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Old 11-22-2004   #2
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please give us the starting defense in a 4-3, as well as back ups. and then compare that with the current personel in the 3-4. i think you might be enlightened....
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Old 11-22-2004   #3
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We need Romeo Crennel or Bill Parcells down here, Dave Wandstedt (sp?) for defensive coordinator. Also, we need to $ee if we can acquire Al Saunders for O-coordinator. With that coaching staff.....baby, in no time we're in the promise land!
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Old 11-22-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBTexans08
We need Romeo Crennel or Bill Parcells down here, Dave Wandstedt (sp?) for defensive coordinator. Also, we need to $ee if we can acquire Al Saunders for O-coordinator. With that coaching staff.....baby, in no time we're in the promise land!
Of the four people you mentioned, the only one who could help this team would be Romeo Crennel...
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Old 11-22-2004   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan7
Of the four people you mentioned, the only one who could help this team would be Romeo Crennel...
Unless the Texans do not win another game this year, Capers and Co. are going to be back next year. We are just now seeing that they are a problem, before it was diguised as an Expansion Team.
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Old 11-22-2004   #6
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I dont think Capers will switch to a 4-3. Regarless you cant do it in the middle of a season.
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Old 11-22-2004   #7
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The DC rob venturi something like that was here in indy with jim mora, that was why mora was fired in indy because he wouldn't fire the DC. You have to have great defensive players to play that system, we indy as you know, all of our money is in offense so it didn't work at all here.
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Old 11-23-2004   #8
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Default How Much???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdfan
I"m a season ticket holder and now considering selling my last three tickets, because this team isn't worth watching.

Let me know, where do you sit??
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Old 11-23-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdfan
I"m a season ticket holder and now considering selling my last three tickets, because this team isn't worth watching.
The Cowboys play a 4-3 and are looking for fans. Take I-45 north. C-ya
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Old 11-23-2004   #10
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Once again, I have to refer to Vinny's advice on why our 3-4 isn't working. The LB play other than Sharper is not above average.
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Old 11-23-2004   #11
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Quote:
I"m a season ticket holder and now considering selling my last three tickets, because this team isn't worth watching
Don't let the door hit ya in the @ss. Why wait? Sell now so some real Texans fans can sit in your seats for a change.
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Old 11-23-2004   #12
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I got my reservations about Capers, but the 3-4 he and his people installed
here in Houston is not one of them. Most teams don't use it, so thier's the element of opponents being unfamiliar with it. And it is (or should be), cheaper to staff than the 4-3.
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Old 11-23-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
I got my reservations about Capers, but the 3-4 he and his people installed
here in Houston is not one of them. Most teams don't use it, so thier's the element of opponents being unfamiliar with it. And it is (or should be), cheaper to staff than the 4-3.
Maybe should be, but it is not in the case of the Texans
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Old 11-23-2004   #14
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thats cause we had to sign FAs. in the long run it will be cheaper because you need a different kind of personel. Tweeners at LB.. huge guys on the line.. you can get 3-4 stars in the 3rd or 4th round on a regular basis.
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Old 11-23-2004   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdfan
I"m a season ticket holder and now considering selling my last three tickets, because this team isn't worth watching.
As many times as i have to return to area, i actually wish that I had not given up my seats. As for your basic notion concerning the defense, personal wise i would like to see more pure speed and quickness. The teams with the best records in the league run the 3-4, New england and pittsburg.
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Old 11-23-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
thats cause we had to sign FAs. in the long run it will be cheaper because you need a different kind of personel. Tweeners at LB.. huge guys on the line.. you can get 3-4 stars in the 3rd or 4th round on a regular basis.
Think that notion is overrated...give me 2nd and i will dig up some facts.
Edit: starters 1st day picks
patriots 3 DL (1st): Lbs 1 (1st), 1 2nd, 1 3rd: DBs 1 (1st), 1 (2nd)

so the Patriots start 5 1st round picks, 2 2nd round pick, and 3rd round pick...the other 3 starts were obtain by signing from other clubs..Hardly a bargain basement 3-4.


Pittsburg seem closer the notion that your are trying to sell

Steelers 1 DL (1st): LB 1(2nd) , 1(3rd) : DBs 2 (1st), 1 (3rd)

Steeler start: 3 1st , 1 2nd, 2 3rds so 6 first day picks which is probably similiar to that of any 4-3 team.
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Old 11-23-2004   #17
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AT--part of the cheaper theory is that premier DE's for a 4-3 are much more expensive than both DT's and LB's. A 4-3 uses two of those DE's and while a 3-4 has two guys labeled DE's they would otherwise be DT's in a 4-3. Basically sacks rule the popularity contest so 4-3 DE's cost a premium. Hopefully we end up with as much talent (more closely related to draft place) but with a lower price.
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Old 11-24-2004   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
in the long run it will be cheaper because you need a different kind of personel. Tweeners at LB.. huge guys on the line.. you can get 3-4 stars in the 3rd or 4th round on a regular basis.
Yea, that's what I'm saying and if I had the initiative to do a little research I
think I'd find that the premeir 3-4s (NE, Pittsburg, etc.), are getting their LBs
in these lower rounds. And while I do confess to deriving a little enjoyment from antagonizing the Babin apologists, at some point they really should repent and admit we defeated one of the attractions of the 3-4 by using
such a high round pick for a position that could have been staffed with a
less pricey investment.
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Old 11-24-2004   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
at some point they really should repent and admit we defeated one of the attractions of the 3-4 by using
such a high round pick for a position that could have been staffed with a
less pricey investment.
Good 3-4 teams also use 1st round picks. Most of the savings comes in the different price range for the various players.

Look at the franchise numbers:
DE's $6.5 mil
DT's $5.6 mil
LB's $5.8 mil

So you really get to save on two folks just on position--one DE to LB, and one DE to a DT since the 3-4 uses 4-3 DT's all along the line. If you can also slip in some lower draft picks that is gravy.
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Old 11-24-2004   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Good 3-4 teams also use 1st round picks. Most of the savings comes in the different price range for the various players.

Look at the franchise numbers:
DE's $6.5 mil
DT's $5.6 mil
LB's $5.8 mil

So you really get to save on two folks just on position--one DE to LB, and one DE to a DT since the 3-4 uses 4-3 DT's all along the line. If you can also slip in some lower draft picks that is gravy.
I would need AJ's numbers to back this, but because the Texans used FAs to fill their DL and LB positions, I am willing to bet that the team has one of the highest cost defenses in the league with results that don't match the cost.

For this cost theory to work, the texans would have to have a better record at drafting at all or draft better at those positions. Remember Texans are 0-4 in DL drafted, never drafted an ILB, 1st and 3rd OLB (that contribute), 1st round CB, 4th round Safety. There is a point where drafted players will need to replace the higher cost FAs that Texans need to use to field a team. Three years in, it would be unfair to draw too much a conclusion either way for the texans. At the moment the 3-4 is not cheaper. Whether it becomes so will depend on the success Casserly and co of identifying players in the next couple of drafts.
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