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Old 12-14-2007   #81
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
All this raving about Sage is just bandwagonish. If we're unable to overcome his 2 turnovers & lose against TB last week, i doubt we're having these threads pop up.

The thing everyone is missing is that our defense is playing lights out & we're not Losing the turnover battle which by far was the biggest reason we were losing games prior to our current win streak. Another thing is our run game has actually been a factor.

We're no different than any other team in these aspects of the game.
Psht why would someone like GP let...little things like FACTS get in the way of a perfectly imaginary QB controversy?!

Sage has been playing ok...not lights out or pro bowl caliber by any means. It's easy to laud praise when he has a top 5 WR and at least a semblance of a running game behind him. Two thing Schaub had only twice this year oh yeah...he was 2-0.
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Old 12-14-2007   #82
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Dear Lord people. Enjoy a TEAM win with Mario breaking out on national TV. Schaub played excellent in some losses this year without weapons and did well for us. Sage has done well also and won the last 3. Considering his background in the league I'm not jumping on any controversies. Sage did a good job tonight but wasn't the ONE who won the game for us. Schaub has done the same. Enjoy the win without the b.s. The making mountains out of molehills gets old quick.
Well there's at least two of us in the house...Don't drink the cool aide Texan's fans. Nice post.
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Old 12-14-2007   #83
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by tulexan View Post
There is no controversy. Schaub is hurt and Sage is playing great in relief. I also think that calling Schaub fragile is like calling Adrian Peterson fragile. He got a concussion on a cheap shot and dislocated his shoulder on an odd fall.
Agreed. I think this is a tempest in tea pot for folks looking for something destructive to do. There is no controversy. Did I post that MS was cluster couplultion on the roll out and out on the edge......Sage is worse. Break out the sun dails. No one has figured it out yet...but they will. The people calling for a switch are just rats looking for the next ship to jump. Don't feed them and the trolls will move on.
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Old 12-14-2007   #84
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Agreed. I think this is a tempest in tea pot for folks looking for something destructive to do. There is no controversy. Did I post that MS was cluster couplultion on the roll out and out on the edge......Sage is worse. Break out the sun dails. No one has figured it out yet...but they will. The people calling for a switch are just rats looking for the next ship to jump. Don't feed them and the trolls will move on.
Nice post. The stats show this all. As someone said above our defense has been what has changed games for us and has helped us overcome turnovers, etc. We are getting consistent play all around.
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Old 12-14-2007   #85
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

Nice game Sage. Real nice game offensive line, running backs, defensive line, secondary, special teams, receivers, linebackers, trainers, fans, everyone. Except GP. This wasn't a total team effort, this was the Sage show. For the third time!! Holy cow man, have you tried Cymbalta? Everyone, please tell GP that Sage is God himself and maybe, just maybe we can have message board peace.
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Old 12-14-2007   #86
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

Wow.

With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

I don't recall trashing any of you in my posts on this topic. I might be urging you to see it my way, and I might be enthusiastic about my opinion, but it seems like a lot of you are enjoying bashing me.

I gave MY points as to why I think Schaub is not the answer, but I don't see anything original from you guys on this. It's the sad, tired one-liners form you guys on it. I just figured we could talk football and discuss issues. I think if you look at my responses, they are filled with reasons and ideas...but I look at your replies on this, and it's perosnal attacks on me...hinting I need to be on a drug, saying that people should just agree with me so we can move on, etc.

LOL.

1. Schaub is fragile no matter WHAT type of hit he takes. Nothing less than perfect oline blocking is going to allow him to be a good QB.

2. Schaub is slow getting away from center, giving the rushing defenders an easier chance of reaching him and disrupting the play. His footwork also gets sloppy as the game goes on, appearing ot be sluggish and uncertain of where to go as he's trying to scramble...resulting in getting waxed from the blindside.

3. Schaub is not a marathon runner--He looks good in short bursts. The guy hasn't strung together more than 1 1/2 games of fast-paced football. IMO, he was gassed after the Panthers game and didn't recover.

4. He cannot sense blinside pressure and make the right decision because he's trying too hard to make something happen. Throw it away, and play another down, please.

I'll just keep putting these points up on the board, in my posts, as a reminder that I am trying to engage in the arena of ideas while you guys are basically just having a grand old time with personal attacks.

Just let your guard down some Sunday afternoon (whenever Schaub finally gets healthy enough to last an entire game) and try to see if you can see any of those four points I just described.

You may continue with the kind remarks you've had for me thus far.
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Old 12-14-2007   #87
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by Mr PC View Post
Sage might as well finish out this season as the starter. You cant take him out if he hasnt lost a game. Sage has earned the start for these last two matches, and next season I think the QBs should compete in camp for the starting spot.
Absolutely.
Stick with what's working for the remainder of the season.
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Old 12-14-2007   #88
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Wow.

With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

I don't recall trashing any of you in my posts on this topic. I might be urging you to see it my way, and I might be enthusiastic about my opinion, but it seems like a lot of you are enjoying bashing me.

I gave MY points as to why I think Schaub is not the answer, but I don't see anything original from you guys on this. It's the sad, tired one-liners form you guys on it. I just figured we could talk football and discuss issues. I think if you look at my responses, they are filled with reasons and ideas...but I look at your replies on this, and it's perosnal attacks on me...hinting I need to be on a drug, saying that people should just agree with me so we can move on, etc.

LOL.

1. Schaub is fragile no matter WHAT type of hit he takes. Nothing less than perfect oline blocking is going to allow him to be a good QB.

2. Schaub is slow getting away from center, giving the rushing defenders an easier chance of reaching him and disrupting the play. His footwork also gets sloppy as the game goes on, appearing ot be sluggish and uncertain of where to go as he's trying to scramble...resulting in getting waxed from the blindside.

3. Schaub is not a marathon runner--He looks good in short bursts. The guy hasn't strung together more than 1 1/2 games of fast-paced football. IMO, he was gassed after the Panthers game and didn't recover.

4. He cannot sense blinside pressure and make the right decision because he's trying too hard to make something happen. Throw it away, and play another down, please.

I'll just keep putting these points up on the board, in my posts, as a reminder that I am trying to engage in the arena of ideas while you guys are basically just having a grand old time with personal attacks.

Just let your guard down some Sunday afternoon (whenever Schaub finally gets healthy enough to last an entire game) and try to see if you can see any of those four points I just described.

You may continue with the kind remarks you've had for me thus far.
Maybe people wouldn't be so critical if you actually read the stats and the facts before hunting and pecking 100 mph another reply. The spelled out arguments are on the previous page and they are true. I laid them out game by game. I can't help that you made up facts about Anderson to prove your point. You can't take 11 games where a guy gets two massive hits and is out and make the argument that he is automatically fragile when almost every QB, save maybe 5-8, don't make it through a full season. As others have pointed out, Aikman only played 11 his rookie year. People weren't rushing to annoint Steve Walsh because he got their only win. It happens. Please read the long list of facts on the other pages. Stop listing the pocket presence argument when the totals say otherwise. Its frustrating to debate a person and to lay out things like his rankings the first half of the season only for it to be ignored because you are too busy typing.
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Old 12-14-2007   #89
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by austintexanite View Post
We'll probably trade Sage for a pick, as long as we get some good value for him I'm for it. There is no doubt he has played solid this past couple of weeks, but, in my opinion, that's it. Denver didn't play great and I think that Kubiak hid Sage's weaknesses.
Sage keeps playing well, we trade him back to the Dolphins for the first pick and we take McFadden or trade down in top 5 and take Jake Long or another OL stud, and a RB in a later round. It's simple. Ha!
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Old 12-14-2007   #90
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

The problems with football discussions with you (I admit, I usually only observe) are one sided discussions. All of them. It's your way or the highway. I've read where people have countered your arguments with valid points, I've read where people have tried to reason with you, all to no avail. Sage had a decent game. The Texans played a hell of a game. Sage is a good QB. Matt is a good QB. Matt took some serious shots, and he's missed some time. Sage hasn't and he's proving himself on the field. Good for him. And even more importantly, good for the Texans. I think that Matt showed enough that considering our investment in him (yes, it's a factor), and what he showed while he was on the field without certain players that he should not lose his job due to injury. Sage has been a great asset for us no doubt about it. Thank God that he was our backup, or this season could have really gotten ugly. Bottom line, it's a great day to be a Texans fan, even amongst all this discourse.
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Old 12-14-2007   #91
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by Chance_C View Post
The problems with football discussions with you (I admit, I usually only observe) are one sided discussions. All of them. It's your way or the highway. I've read where people have countered your arguments with valid points, I've read where people have tried to reason with you, all to no avail. Sage had a decent game. The Texans played a hell of a game. Sage is a good QB. Matt is a good QB. Matt took some serious shots, and he's missed some time. Sage hasn't and he's proving himself on the field. Good for him. And even more importantly, good for the Texans. I think that Matt showed enough that considering our investment in him (yes, it's a factor), and what he showed while he was on the field without certain players that he should not lose his job due to injury. Sage has been a great asset for us no doubt about it. Thank God that he was our backup, or this season could have really gotten ugly. Bottom line, it's a great day to be a Texans fan, even amongst all this discourse.
QFT!!! Great post!!
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Old 12-14-2007   #92
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Wow.

With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

I don't recall trashing any of you in my posts on this topic. I might be urging you to see it my way, and I might be enthusiastic about my opinion, but it seems like a lot of you are enjoying bashing me.

I gave MY points as to why I think Schaub is not the answer, but I don't see anything original from you guys on this. It's the sad, tired one-liners form you guys on it. I just figured we could talk football and discuss issues. I think if you look at my responses, they are filled with reasons and ideas...but I look at your replies on this, and it's perosnal attacks on me...hinting I need to be on a drug, saying that people should just agree with me so we can move on, etc.

LOL.

1. Schaub is fragile no matter WHAT type of hit he takes. Nothing less than perfect oline blocking is going to allow him to be a good QB.

2. Schaub is slow getting away from center, giving the rushing defenders an easier chance of reaching him and disrupting the play. His footwork also gets sloppy as the game goes on, appearing ot be sluggish and uncertain of where to go as he's trying to scramble...resulting in getting waxed from the blindside.
Are u serious? If you Tivo'ed the game go back & see how much faster Sage is coming from under center.
3. Schaub is not a marathon runner--He looks good in short bursts. The guy hasn't strung together more than 1 1/2 games of fast-paced football. IMO, he was gassed after the Panthers game and didn't recover.
What the hell kind of critique is this?
4. He cannot sense blinside pressure and make the right decision because he's trying too hard to make something happen. Throw it away, and play another down, please. Yeah b/c Sage is soooo much better at that, Yeah he was really sensing that blindside pressure against TB when he got hit & stripped from the backside both plays he fumbled the ball.

I'll just keep putting these points up on the board, in my posts, as a reminder that I am trying to engage in the arena of ideas while you guys are basically just having a grand old time with personal attacks.

Just let your guard down some Sunday afternoon (whenever Schaub finally gets healthy enough to last an entire game) and try to see if you can see any of those four points I just described.

You may continue with the kind remarks you've had for me thus far.

You have no points, everything you've said about Schaub has happened or can be said about Sage. & again for a guy who's only played in 5 games & started in 3, explain why he has just as many INT's & TO's as Schaub does who's played more games.
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Old 12-14-2007   #93
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

Will someone tell me what's wrong with having two good quarterbacks on the team? Why all hand wringing over this? Schaub is the starter, Sage is the backup, and we should be frigging damn happy we have them both.

And this comes from someone who (before the season started) wanted Sage to start and seriously trashed the trade for Schaub.
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Old 12-14-2007   #94
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Will someone tell me what's wrong with having two good quarterbacks on the team? Why all hand wringing over this? Schaub is the starter, Sage is the backup, and we should be frigging damn happy we have them both.

And this comes from someone who (before the season started) wanted Sage to start and seriously trashed the trade for Schaub.
Exactly the point many of us are making. People started writing Sage the savior posts 2 weeks ago and most just wanted to explain that Schaub has done just as well, if not better, and that it is not a problem to have both guys and be winning. Its a good TEAM problem to have.
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Old 12-14-2007   #95
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

I am very pleased with our QBs, I want to keep both of them on the roster that way we dont have any worries. I do feel the need to stick up for Sage when so many people say that he is only a backup and thats all he will ever amount to. Sage has proven over and over that he has what it takes to lead this team. And I really dont see how anybody in their right mind could say Schaub has done better than Sage. I'd say they have both been good, possibly equal, but Sage has done every bit as good a job as Matt and there is no sense in denying it.
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Old 12-14-2007   #96
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Will someone tell me what's wrong with having two good quarterbacks on the team? Why all hand wringing over this? Schaub is the starter, Sage is the backup, and we should be frigging damn happy we have them both.

And this comes from someone who (before the season started) wanted Sage to start and seriously trashed the trade for Schaub.
I'm the opposite of you: I laid a big wet sloppy kiss on the Schaub deal when it happened. Heck, I even posted a YouTube video about Schaub that showed how better he was than Carr (from Brian Baldinger's NFLN analysis). And I guess I forgot to hold my horses and wait until I saw him on the field.

Sage signed a four-year contract in 2006 (details here) so that's some good news.

But he can seek a trade. I don't know if he'd push for it or not. If he's relatively happy in Houston, he might just be happy with with his $2 million signing bonus, as well as the $1 million or so he gets every year for four years. He might be content as a backup. I just don't know why he wouldn't try and leverage his recent success into a starting role somewhere.

If I were Sage, I'd have my agent express a desire to team management that an open competition (in camp) needs to be guaranteed somehow.

Otherwise, there seems to be some teams with QB messes (Chicago, for example) who might give us good value for him. Maybe.
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Old 12-14-2007   #97
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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I am very pleased with our QBs, I want to keep both of them on the roster that way we dont have any worries. I do feel the need to stick up for Sage when so many people say that he is only a backup and thats all he will ever amount to. Sage has proven over and over that he has what it takes to lead this team. And I really dont see how anybody in their right mind could say Schaub has done better than Sage. I'd say they have both been good, possibly equal, but Sage has done every bit as good a job as Matt and there is no sense in denying it.
And it is the above sentiment that seems to have caused the dispute. There are arguments to both sides but in reality its started as people saying Sage was so much better than Schaub and how we made a bad move. Go look at the stats. It is close but it isn't a complete review with the players that were missing and with the sample size. There are turnovers and many other things to look at. There are many of us in our right mind that just aren't so black and white and hate the bandwagon nature proclaiming one player so much better after every week.

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Sage signed a four-year contract in 2006 details here
Yes, it has been talked about here but you were too busy telling us he was going to bolt because fo these games
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Old 12-14-2007   #98
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by Mr PC View Post
I am very pleased with our QBs, I want to keep both of them on the roster that way we dont have any worries. I do feel the need to stick up for Sage when so many people say that he is only a backup and thats all he will ever amount to. Sage has proven over and over that he has what it takes to lead this team. And I really dont see how anybody in their right mind could say Schaub has done better than Sage. I'd say they have both been good, possibly equal, but Sage has done every bit as good a job as Matt and there is no sense in denying it.
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Old 12-14-2007   #99
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
And it is the above sentiment that seems to have caused the dispute. There are arguments to both sides but in reality its started as people saying Sage was so much better than Schaub and how we made a bad move. Go look at the stats. It is close but it isn't a complete review with the players that were missing and with the sample size. There are turnovers and many other things to look at. There are many of us in our right mind that just aren't so black and white and hate the bandwagon nature proclaiming one player so much better after every week.
Ive looked at the stats and seen both of them perform. Like I said they both did well. But there is no way to make the case that Schaub has done better than Sage. You could make the case that they have performed about equally, or that Schaub has a higher ceiling, but there is no way you can say Matt has performed better than Sage this season. In the last sentece of your post you say you hate the bandwagon mentality of proclaiming one player better than another based on a relatively small sample size. Guess what that is exactly what you are doing when you say Matt is better than Sage.
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Old 12-14-2007   #100
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
And it is the above sentiment that seems to have caused the dispute. There are arguments to both sides but in reality its started as people saying Sage was so much better than Schaub and how we made a bad move. Go look at the stats. It is close but it isn't a complete review with the players that were missing and with the sample size. There are turnovers and many other things to look at. There are many of us in our right mind that just aren't so black and white and hate the bandwagon nature proclaiming one player so much better after every week.
I was off the Schaub wagon right about the Miami game. So I was off the wagon way before Sage was even breaking a sweat on the field on Sundays this season.

The whole "Sage is a great backup" thing is what's really irking me, I guess. To me, it's a slap in the face of a guy (Sage) who has been a better overall solution at QB than Schaub has been.

Man, I am sorry if this rubs you wrong. But I just do NOT see what you all see in Matt Schaub. You can say I am making a snap judgment, but that's what happens when we get fed a bunch of mularkey on David Carr for 5 years.

This team has a vastly more depleted line than Schaub had, and Sage is making it work. He's just flat out lapping Schaub when it comes to getting it done.

I think we've just about worn this argument out. I think I have said all I can say, which is probably just fine with you.
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