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Old 12-14-2007   #61
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Sage might as well finish out this season as the starter. You cant take him out if he hasnt lost a game. Sage has earned the start for these last two matches, and next season I think the QBs should compete in camp for the starting spot.
With Schaub's dislocated shoulder, I don't think there's even a choice about who starts the rest of the season.

I think we get hammered by the Colts, but I think we beat the Jags.

And I, like you, hope that we retain Sage and let him openly compete with Schaub for the starting role. That's something Carr never had (a rival) and it only helps the team in the end...it helps to see which guy is more fit. It forces a guy to prove himself beyond doubt, beyond the hype. And that includes the hype about Sage--If Schaub beats Sage out, in a truly OPEN competition, then I won't be upset. I'll be glad because Schaub will have had to have majorly improved on some things to have own the gig.

And therefore, in the end, WE (the fans) will win in that sort of situation. But there's nothing to be gained, IMO, by a team naming a starter and not even opening it up for competition.
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Old 12-14-2007   #62
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

Sage has been such a breath of fresh air coming in and essentially we havn't lost a step. I want to say that first. However, watching Sage, even tonight, I just got a sense that he's not the guy I want leading our team for 16 games. Don't get me wrong, he played yet another great game but there were still those mistakes of rushing, poor timing on a lot of throws, etc. I don't see him as our full time starter.

I do also want to say this....Again, I love sage to death but a lot of this talk is reminding me of a certain situation up in Nashville. "Vince Young won all those games his rookie year....vs...Tenn's defense was the reason they won all those" Well tonight our Defense completely dominated. Mario was incredible, Demps had 2 easy Interception drops, Bennett had 2 Interception drops....Don't kid yourselves our defense was the biggest reason we won that game.
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Old 12-14-2007   #63
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

What's crazy is that if Sage hadn't broken his hand last season Kubes probably would've pulled Carr and we would've seen him put these performances together. Do you think we would've traded for Schaub then or let Sage have his shot?

As it is I think our qbs are interchangeable in terms of production but we hitched our wagon to Schaub in the offseason so I think we have them battle it out in training camp next season unless somebody offers us a sweet deal for Sage.
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Old 12-14-2007   #64
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

We'll probably trade Sage for a pick, as long as we get some good value for him I'm for it. There is no doubt he has played solid this past couple of weeks, but, in my opinion, that's it. Denver didn't play great and I think that Kubiak hid Sage's weaknesses.
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Old 12-14-2007   #65
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by tulexan View Post
Sage is doing all of this one year too late. If Carr got hurt last year like Schaub did this year he probably would've been the starter going into this year.
Or in the history of David Carr if the oaches had benched him an let back-ups play, who knows where we'd be at?
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Old 12-14-2007   #66
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

Sage has been good in relief but saying he is "3-0" isn't the whole story IMO--he's played some terrific stretches as a reliever and he has also lost winnable games for us as a reliever. He has a few "oh ****" moments every game (last night's INT into triple coverage--where did that come from?) and sometimes like last night those lead to big scores. A lot of Schaub's less than impressive games came w/o AJ while Rosenfels has mostly had him.

Having said that I absolutely would try to keep both of them--can't go wrong with having that kind of reliable backup on the bench. Maybe Sage can start, but for now I think the jury's out on that one.
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Old 12-14-2007   #67
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
...Maybe Rosenfels is a product of the system and Kubiak's coaching?

Unloading Rosenfels may not be as a bad as everyone thinks if Kubiak is as good as a QB coach some people think.

Good opportunity to leverage value to improve the team. Kind of like when Shanahan traded Portis for Bailey. Every one thought he was crazy for doing that.
Wouldn't that be something if the Texans became known as the team that could take any QB in their system and make him serviceable like Denver is known for their RB's in the system? Especially after our 1st five years.
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Old 12-14-2007   #68
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

If things work out well for us, we'll get a couple of picks for Sage Rosenfels.

If we beat the Colts, and Sage plays like he did tonight(good enough), We'll probably get a second round pick, plus a second day pick.

Sage can, and probably will go on to have a Flutie like career somewhere else.

It would be nice if he could do that here, but it isn't going to happen.

We'll trade him, to get enough capital to trade up in next years draft.
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Old 12-14-2007   #69
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Well, I think Kris Brown was kickig long field goals all day because drives were stalling just past mid-field.

But I recall Sage leading us down to the goal line a lot tonight. Somebody has to get the team down there, and someone has to be "clutch" and not piss away the chance at a TD.

Sage was efficient. Had Denver not sustained long drives all night, mostly via Bradon Marshall on nice gains at crucial moments to sustains a drive, the score might have been even more lopsided.

Look, I am less of a stat guy...and I'm more of a perception guy. I see this offense, and its role players, looking a lot more in rhythm and operating at a better pace than I did with Schaub as the starter. I also see a defense who is pinning its ears back and making BIG PLAYS, which CAN be attributed to having Demps and Bennett coming along nicely, but has also got to be partly due to a Texans offense scoring points and allowing the defense to take chances more.

Simply put, I just feel that outside of the Chiefs game and the Saints game, Schaub has not exactly looked like a world champ (to me). I have said that it might be due to him being a first-year starter who is perhaps a little under-developed (especially pertaining to physical fitness and endurance) but yet I see a few other things that are more of just part of Schaub's style, which I don't see getting better all of a sudden.
Let me give you a little refresher since you claim your not a stats guy yet you just try to throw out bad games and have amnesia on other ones that weren't won...Schaub...80% after AJ went out in the Indy loss!!..how are those first three games and EFFICIENCY. His "horrible game v Atlanta he was 70% and over 300 yards with no ints. He lost a fumble. This is the same stuff Sage does and in many cases less turnovers and better percentages. Also, when your top weapon is out, the red zone shrinks. Everyone knows this. He was 3-1 with AJ. Our sack total is one of the tops in the league. Through half of the season Schaub was ranked in the Top 10 in 7 QB categories. You keep saying I'm not spelling things out but your arguments hold no weight. I showed you a stat on our sack total and what NFL execs are seeing of the guy in the pocket..along with many of us..and you come right back with an argument that he can't get throws off and is too slow in the pocket. How does that work?

KC--(W)-16 of 22 (72.7), 225 yds, 1 TD, 1 int
Car--(W)-20 of 28 (71.4), 227 yds, 2 TDs, 0 int
Indy(L)--27 of 33 (81.8), 236 yds, 1 TD, 2 int
Atl(L)--28 of 40 (70), 317 yds, 1 TD, 0 int
Miami(W) 20 of 34 (58.8) 294 0 TD 1 int

I will keep going if you want.....because there are only 1 or 2 truly bad games out of 11, yet people are turning a blind eye..ok, I will..almost all of these games above abnd below are similar if not better to the stats you are saying made Champ Bailey look like a chump and "picking apart defenses."

Jax(L) 19 of 31 (61.3) 259 yds 0 Tds 1 int
Tenn(L) 5 of 9 (55.6), 23 yds, 0 and 0 (knowcked out..Sage comes in with 4 TOs and then leads us back)
S.D-(L and a truly bad game) 11 of 18 (61.1), 77 yds, 0 TD, 2 ints
Out Two Games
N.O.--21 of 33 (63.6) 293 yds 2 TDs 0 ints
CLE-(allegedly horrible game but actually not bad besides 2 picks)
22 of 36 (61.1) 256 yds 2 tds 2 ints
Tenn--3 of 5 (60), 34 yds, 0 and 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
Derek Anderson would like to talk about this topic.

He was up-and-down in Cleveland. There was Tim Couch, then there was Charlie Frye, then there was Derek, then it was back to Tim, and then it was Derek, and then it was Frye, and over and over and over.
And I guess Derek Anderson just somehow found a way one day.
Now you are just making up facts. Couch hasn't played in Cleveland since 2003. Anderson was drafted by Baltimore in 2005 and was picked up on waivers by Cle last year in 2006 where he played sparingly...a few games. So this is the year he has played and done well without jumping around.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 12-14-2007 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 12-14-2007   #70
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

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Sage has been good in relief but saying he is "3-0" isn't the whole story IMO--he's played some terrific stretches as a reliever and he has also lost winnable games for us as a reliever. He has a few "oh ****" moments every game (last night's INT into triple coverage--where did that come from?) and sometimes like last night those lead to big scores. A lot of Schaub's less than impressive games came w/o AJ while Rosenfels has mostly had him.

Having said that I absolutely would try to keep both of them--can't go wrong with having that kind of reliable backup on the bench. Maybe Sage can start, but for now I think the jury's out on that one.
Well said. I seem to remember a guy named Beurlein who was a great backup and who won 4 games during a Cowboy SB year when Aikman went out. He was a hot commodity, went somewhere else and didn't really do too much the rest of his career but was a decent NFL QB..a better backup. You can't predict these things. The best thing would be to have both. You could probably count on one hand the number of NFL teams that have a QB make it through an entire season. That is why I will never get the argument that Schaub is fragile when almost all QBs these days miss games. I'd love to have both.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 12-14-2007 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-14-2007   #71
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

I think we keep both of them. Sage just signed a 4 year 7 million $ contract last year. Give the guy a bonus and let him battle it out with Schaub next year. If Schaub shows he can do the job - then trade Sage after next year. Right now, however, we aren't sure that Schaub can stay on the field and a good backup seems to be pretty important.

How distressing would it be next year to know we have come this far, Schaub gets hurt and we can't continue our newly found winning ways because Sage is playing for Atlanta and we are stuck with some 3rd string backup. The very thought gives me the heebie jeebies.
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Old 12-14-2007   #72
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

This thread is the exact reason i came to this place last to see the feedback about the game. Sage's been playing great i'm happy we have him, but to think there's going to be a QB controversy next year is absurd. mainly b/c

1) they just gave Schaub 40 + mil to be the starter

2) Schaub hasn't done anything to lose the starting job

3) Sage isn't playing head & shoulders better than Schaub.

Schaub has just unfortunately taken some tough shots that have knocked him out of a couple of games. Furthermore for all Sage has done his TD to INT ratio isn't all that great for someone who's only played significant minutes in 5 games.
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Old 12-14-2007   #73
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Default Re: Wow....this is gonna be tough

All this raving about Sage is just bandwagonish. If we're unable to overcome his 2 turnovers & lose against TB last week, i doubt we're having these threads pop up.

The thing everyone is missing is that our defense is playing lights out & we're not Losing the turnover battle which by far was the biggest reason we were losing games prior to our current win streak. Another thing is our run game has actually been a factor.

We're no different than any other team in these aspects of the game.
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Old 12-14-2007   #74
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

Have Said it before and will again. Cody Carlson 2.0.
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Old 12-14-2007   #75
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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There is absolutely no way the Texans would pick Sage over Schaub. Sage can either accept his role as being a backup or can demand to be traded. I'm sure there will be teams that will bite, but the Texans have their man with Schaub.

100% correct!!!! You don't give Schaub the kind of $ they gave him and then sit him. If he's healthy, he's your starter......... case closed. It may be right or wrong, but it's the way it is in the NFL now.
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Old 12-14-2007   #76
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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There is absolutely no way the Texans would pick Sage over Schaub. Sage can either accept his role as being a backup or can demand to be traded. I'm sure there will be teams that will bite, but the Texans have their man with Schaub.
Yeah unfortunately, you may be right. It may not matter who is playing better or who has actually EARNED the job versus being annointed, does it?
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Old 12-14-2007   #77
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Yeah unfortunately, you may be right. It may not matter who is playing better or who has actually EARNED the job versus being annointed, does it?
In my opinion, the Texans gave Scahuab the job when the acquired him for the big bucks. It's too late to be second guessing their move now. Hopefully we can keep Sage, because he's a quality backup.
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Old 12-14-2007   #78
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Yeah unfortunately, you may be right. It may not matter who is playing better or who has actually EARNED the job versus being annointed, does it?
Again, look at the stats above..you can't say that, especially with Sage's turnover ratio. I'm glad we are winning but it should just be two guys competing.
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Old 12-14-2007   #79
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post

Look, I am less of a stat guy...and I'm more of a perception guy.
& that may be part of the problem right there.

Look, I'm not going to tell you that Schaub is better than Sage in any way. At the same time, I won't be telling anyone that Sage is the better QB. But if you asked me, I'd tell you I'd prefer to start Sage from now until.

I was one of the guys who was fine with starting Sage this season, and didn't see why we'd give up two #2 draft picks for a guy who is basically Sage Rosenfels. Unproven backup.

But it isn't going to happen.

Sage has played himself into the starters role, I'll agree with that. If we win out, and luck into a play-off spot, and they start Schaub for the play-off game, I'd be upset.

But if we win out, still miss the play-offs, I'd expect the Texans would be looking to cash in & redeem their second round pick in the 2008 draft.

& I'd be fine with that.

I'm a Sage fan.

But I don't think his play, or his ability to move the ball, to be that much better than Schaub's.
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Old 12-14-2007   #80
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

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& that may be part of the problem right there.

Look, I'm not going to tell you that Schaub is better than Sage in any way. At the same time, I won't be telling anyone that Sage is the better QB. But if you asked me, I'd tell you I'd prefer to start Sage from now until.

I was one of the guys who was fine with starting Sage this season, and didn't see why we'd give up two #2 draft picks for a guy who is basically Sage Rosenfels. Unproven backup.

But it isn't going to happen.

Sage has played himself into the starters role, I'll agree with that. If we win out, and luck into a play-off spot, and they start Schaub for the play-off game, I'd be upset.

But if we win out, still miss the play-offs, I'd expect the Texans would be looking to cash in & redeem their second round pick in the 2008 draft.

& I'd be fine with that.

I'm a Sage fan.

But I don't think his play, or his ability to move the ball, to be that much better than Schaub's.

GOOD POST!!!!
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