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Old 12-05-2007   #1
DominatorDavis
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Default Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

I know that the season is still ongoing with 4 games left but man...I just get sad everytime I see us end a game. I hate loosing. I hate even more watching a team that started the season with so much passion and hope, just melt before my eyes. We are better than 5-7 and should be 8-4 right now and looking at the playoffs. I feel the frustration like no other.

Having said that - these injuries are destroying our team and have all but ruined our season. Turnovers are killing us. We're a talented team...we just hand the ball to the opposing team too much. I know that this has been said elsewhere but it makes you believe things about this team which are not true. Like that they are worthy of a 5-7 record etc etc... GRR

1) We need a starting left tackle. Someone anyone.

2) We need a fast, consistent runningback, who does not fumble.

3) We need a corner, a strong safety, and a free safety

Were getting slaughtered out there.

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Old 12-05-2007   #2
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Ironically, this post could have been from 2002, 03, 04, 05, etc
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Old 12-05-2007   #3
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis View Post
I know that the season is still ongoing with 4 games left but man...I just get sad everytime I see us end a game. I hate loosing. I hate even more watching a team that started the season with so much passion and hope, just melt before my eyes. We are better than 5-7 and should be 8-4 right now and looking at the playoffs. I feel the frustration like no other.

Having said that - these injuries are destroying our team and have all but ruined our season. Turnovers are killing us. We're a talented team...we just hand the ball to the opposing team too much. I know that this has been said elsewhere but it makes you believe things about this team which are not true. Like that they are worthy of a 5-7 record etc etc... GRR

1) We need a starting left tackle. Someone anyone.

2) We need a fast, consistent runningback, who does not fumble.

3) We need a corner, a strong safety, and a free safety

Were getting slaughtered out there.

Dominator
Points made and discussed on other threads. You are on target.

1. We should have access to a good left tackle in first round.
A. Sam Baker 6'4" 310 USC agile LT has been sound technician 3 years.
B. Ryan Clady 6'5" 320 Boise State Mobile Jr. tackle. Dominant blocker
C. Michael Oher 6'5" 325 Mississippi Agile with good tools
D. Alex Boone 6'7" 325 Ohio St. best LT since Orlando Pace (I think I saw that Dallas is interested).
E. Gosder Chrilus 6'6" 320 Boston more of a project
2. First the facts. Dayne has looked pretty good last four games despite what has happened around him. Eche was a one game flash. Green still has one more high dollar season ($3-5 million) & I'd be surprised if he is cut. If we end up with a top 15 pick, it is possible we could trade down and get a 2nd or high 3rd. We can get a good LT lower in first and imo draft a RB in 2nd. A free agent pick up is possible but not a significant one.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

3.A Strong Safety will not be addressed in draft. CC Brown, Brandon Harrison and Glenn Earl, Boulaware and Brandon Mitchell will compete.
B. Corner Bennett, Hutchins, Jason Simmons, Faggins, DR (if he can return), Fletcher and Free Agent signee Asante Samuel (in my dream) will compete.
C. Free safety is the position that puzzles me. On the Draft Insiders' Digest dated Nov 9th only one FS is in top 100 and Kenny Phillips will probably not be there when we select. I do not think Kubes will draft a FS until 3rd at earliest.

If we lose remaining games, like it or not that is a strong possibility, things could break right for us in off season. At least better than the breaks during the season (injury report).
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Old 12-05-2007   #4
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

1) We need a starting left tackle. Someone anyone.
Agreed. With as many holes as we have on this team, I still think LT has to be the priority in the offseason. If Spencer can come back healthy, then we have the added bonus of having quality depth, but by that time, the guy wouldn't have played football for two years, so you can't count on him coming back.

2) ADDITION - Center.
IMO, there has been a huge drop-off from McKinney to Flannagan...and I thought the same last year. As much as I would like to see it, I don't know that a 10 year vet comes back from this sort of knee injury.

We seem to have a lot more options at guard. Pitts and Weary are not all-stars, but they have been pretty solid. I think Studdard is a good young talent (I am a UT guy) and would not be surprised for him to get enough out of the experience he gets in the next four games to really push for playing time next year. Per the Chron, it looks like Frye has been moved to guard as well and I think there is a possibility that a healthy, less mobile, Spencer gets moved inside when he comes back.

You seem to see a lot of OL have the ability to play a center/ guard combo - McKinney and Chris White fit this description. I had heard good things about Chris White, but the fact that he hasn't taken over for Flannagan on a more consistent basis isn't a real vote of confidence for his play at center. Unless we think that we can successfully make this move with one of the current players, I think we have to find an upgrade.

3) We need a fast, consistent runningback, who does not fumble.
Agreed. Taylor's injury really hurts here, as he was looking like the guy that could have filled this role and you can't count on him making that kind of push coming off a serious knee injury. This is my second area to fill - after BOTH of the OL positions are addressed.

4) We need a corner, a strong safety, and a free safety.
I think we need to address either free safety OR corner, but think we have some guys that were injured this year and some young guys that can step up and fill the other holes.

What are the chances that we can go out this off-season and upgrade each one of these four spots? You have to expect your first round pick to step in day one and start and I think that we can find a player in the third round that could come in and compete for playing time at any one of these spots - heck, two years ago we started two 3rd round rookies on the line. Maybe this year we forego the "potential" pick in the third (like we got with Jacoby) and get someone with less upside, but who can step in day one. If we could choose wisely in the draft, that would leave addressing two of these needs in free agency. Is $30M enough to get this done?
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Old 12-05-2007   #5
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

DC was but part of this mess. Piss poor QB in conjunction with a less than ideal line is a very bad combination.

While glancing through the game day guide at the last game, there was a small article that broke down position draft choices. The OL was the leader of draft picks made, but obviously bad luck and poor choices have been the dominating constant theme on previous drafts.

IMO, we need to pay special attention to the OL this draft...even at the expense of a high RB or CB.
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Old 12-05-2007   #6
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Ironically, this post could have been from 2002, 03, 04, 05, etc
At least now we don't have WR, TE, and QB(imo) still in the equation. Baby steps.
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Old 12-05-2007   #7
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
At least now we don't have WR, TE, and QB(imo) still in the equation. Baby steps.
Agreed.
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Old 12-05-2007   #8
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
At least now we don't have WR, TE, and QB(imo) still in the equation. Baby steps.
Really poor baby steps, IMO. The team would have been better served to address the OL first, before worrying about skill positions. You can get by with less than premium talent at skill positions, if you have a good O-line. Teams have proven it throughout the years. Great offensive players cannot overcome the lack of a real offensive line on a consistent and broad enough basis to put together a winning team. How many years of AJ's career will have been wasted by the time this team puts together a quality O-line? Schaub's?
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Old 12-05-2007   #9
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Really poor baby steps, IMO. The team would have been better served to address the OL first, before worrying about skill positions. You can get by with less than premium talent at skill positions, if you have a good O-line. Teams have proven it throughout the years. Great offensive players cannot overcome the lack of a real offensive line on a consistent and broad enough basis to put together a winning team. How many years of AJ's career will have been wasted by the time this team puts together a quality O-line? Schaub's?
I understand what you are saying. But with a healthy Spencer and Mckinney..... I think our offensive line would have been very adequate this year. Injuries have to be considered in this discussion. I mean season enders to both and possibly a career ender to Spencer? There is no crystal ball for that. Not saying injuries are not apart of the game. But the plan was to have both as starters this year. Its only Kubiaks second year... and we keep losing more than we can acquire. Weary the latest.
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Old 12-05-2007   #10
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Somehow I don't see the Texans going anything but RB in the first round, especially if the team goes winless for the rest of the year.

I think Bob will be looking for a "Sexy" pick, and fat guys that block don't sell merch or tickets (even if they should)
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Old 12-05-2007   #11
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Default I know its early

Mr McNair is at a crossroad. Get substandard players and keep the salary's down. Or try and make this team reach .500. Mr Carr was not a great quarterback but so isn't the current one. The error I see in Matt Schaub is he hangs up on his mistakes. I think he is so afraid of goofing it effects his judgment on field. It does not take a great quarterback to make a winning team.
Look at the 1985 Chicago Bear. Jim McMahon was not a great quarterback. You had though several key guys William Perry, Walter Payton, namely. If we are to win ballgames we need to go for the best.

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I found this it sheds light on the entire college football scene. Yes we may draft a no name and he will surprise the whole NFL. If Mr McNair continues to keep the course salarys and profit will suffer. Lets not be another Detroit.
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Old 12-05-2007   #12
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

The Texans are currently on pace to give up only 24 sacks this season, by far the fewest of any season since our inception. The current ranking for sacks allowed:

NO 11
CIN 16
CLE 16
DAL 16
NE 16
SD 16
ARI 17
GB 17
IND 17
HOU 18

Not saying there isn't more room for improvement, but it's not like the OL has been a total sieve as in years past. I personally think we have to get a young upgrade at center during this offseason, and if there is a LT available in the draft that is far better than the DBs and RBs available, then by all means, grab him. Just saying that the OL isn't looking as bad as it has in the past.
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Old 12-05-2007   #13
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

I wish there was a way of evaluating O-Lines besides sack numbers. For instance, just because a QB gets rid of the ball doesn't mean that the lineman did not get abused on that particular play. I guess it would be way too difficult to track such things though.
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Old 12-05-2007   #14
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Oak View Post
DC was but part of this mess. Piss poor QB in conjunction with a less than ideal line is a very bad combination.

While glancing through the game day guide at the last game, there was a small article that broke down position draft choices. The OL was the leader of draft picks made, but obviously bad luck and poor choices have been the dominating constant theme on previous drafts.

IMO, we need to pay special attention to the OL this draft...even at the expense of a high RB or CB.
Not just bad luck poor choices...it's a question of hitting one of the rare birds who are stiff enough to absorb the bull rush and at the same time be light enough on their feet to be like a balerina. You can patch a little inside. You can go with a guy who is a little less than perfect on the right side. But hitting a true OLT is prety hard. They are rare and that is why
when you hit one ...you pay the guy.

It's also why if you got a thirty something starting for you on the left side you make sure you got someone in the pipe line who is locked and loaded to begin his NFL career. And the Texans don't have that right now.

Yes we have 18 sacks right now and that is on pace to reach the thirty three we were promised at the begining of the season. Our new QB has taken some major hits. His fault, their fault, does it matter? Fact is they have 48 million and two twos invested in the guy. Just me, I don't wanna explian to Mr. McNair how the second guy he bought for us ends up just like the first guy he bought for us. Know what I mean ?
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Last edited by threetoedpete; 12-05-2007 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 12-05-2007   #15
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Ironically, this post could have been from 2002, 03, 04, 05, etc
Except we had a semi-fast, consistent running back who didn't fumble from 03-05.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtran04 View Post
I wish there was a way of evaluating O-Lines besides sack numbers. For instance, just because a QB gets rid of the ball doesn't mean that the lineman did not get abused on that particular play. I guess it would be way too difficult to track such things though.
I agree those sack numbers are a little bit deceptive. It's a heck of a lot better than the Keystone cops circus we had in 05, but compare the time Schaub and Rosenfels have had with the time Brady has to throw. It's not a 2-sack difference.

I do think a better rushing threat would help. They'd have to respect the play-action, from which we've gotten a lot of our big plays, a lot more.
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Old 12-05-2007   #16
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanAddict View Post
The Texans are currently on pace to give up only 24 sacks this season, by far the fewest of any season since our inception. The current ranking for sacks allowed:

NO 11
CIN 16
CLE 16
DAL 16
NE 16
SD 16
ARI 17
GB 17
IND 17
HOU 18

Not saying there isn't more room for improvement, but it's not like the OL has been a total sieve as in years past. I personally think we have to get a young upgrade at center during this offseason, and if there is a LT available in the draft that is far better than the DBs and RBs available, then by all means, grab him. Just saying that the OL isn't looking as bad as it has in the past.
There is a big, if not huge, difference in our protection though versus other teams. When our QB's are "pressured" (which is on almost every pass play) they are physically being at least "touched" if not actually hit. When you watch our defense "pressure" other QB's it is because our guys our in the general vicinity of the QB. So, yes we are giving up fewer sacks but, our QB's are still getting alot of pressure.
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Old 12-05-2007   #17
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

I don't think that we can afford to think that Weary, Spencer, or D-Rob will ever come back. They had some wicked injuries and it would be dumb to think that they will come back without losing some ability. Keep the door cracked for them but in our minds we need to move on.
I'm not sure how bad McKinney or White injuries were, but they aren't spectacular players anyways.
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Old 12-05-2007   #18
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtran04 View Post
I wish there was a way of evaluating O-Lines besides sack numbers. For instance, just because a QB gets rid of the ball doesn't mean that the lineman did not get abused on that particular play. I guess it would be way too difficult to track such things though.
Watching the games and seeing how many times/how much Schaub has to move around or hurry a throw might be a good start to get a feel for the truth. If Schaub is almost constantly on the move using his pocket presence to get the pass off, maybe the reduction of sacks is primarily on him.

It is simpler to just look at the stats and determine that the line is good in pass protection.
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Old 12-05-2007   #19
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanAddict View Post
The Texans are currently on pace to give up only 24 sacks this season, by far the fewest of any season since our inception. The current ranking for sacks allowed:

NO 11
CIN 16
CLE 16
DAL 16
NE 16
SD 16
ARI 17
GB 17
IND 17
HOU 18

Not saying there isn't more room for improvement, but it's not like the OL has been a total sieve as in years past. I personally think we have to get a young upgrade at center during this offseason, and if there is a LT available in the draft that is far better than the DBs and RBs available, then by all means, grab him. Just saying that the OL isn't looking as bad as it has in the past.
Some pretty good teams on that list...
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Old 12-05-2007   #20
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Best way to look at Offensive Line performance by strictly #'s is by QB sacks, QB hurries, and QB hits. However that is only talking about passing situations. The OL has much ado about the running game too, so rushing yards can be deceptive.

Schaub has been a world of difference in getting the sack # down. However, he's getting hit just as much as carr did. The only difference is Carr took the sack where schaub throws it away. With Schaub throwing the ball, his release is causing him to be completely unprotected at the time he gets hit and that's why he's getting hurt. Of course you can probably add late hits and unsportsmanlike conduct to the reason as well.

Hurries and Hits tell a much clearer story to how the OL is actually performing, rather than sacks alone.
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