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Old 12-04-2007   #41
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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I've seen him play in college, I've seen him practice, and I'm pretty sure I saw him play during the preseason.
Ok..I thought I missed something.
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Old 12-04-2007   #42
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Gaffney was never a bust. First of all, he was a 2nd round pick. Hard to call anyone not drafted in the first round a "bust". Secondly, he didn't have a real QB throwing the ball to him until he got to New England.
wow, mcnabb is not a real qb?
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Old 12-04-2007   #43
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by adam View Post
I've seen him play in college, I've seen him practice, and I'm pretty sure I saw him play during the preseason.
You did see him in preseason if you watched the Arizona game. He was their 3rd or 4th string QB and he played sometime in the 4th quarter. When he was cut by Arizona the Texans picked him up because they remembered him in that game. He stood out as a good developmental QB.
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Old 12-04-2007   #44
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Unless somebody is going to overpay, absolutely no reason to consider trading Rosenfels. Essentially, the Texans would create a significant hole, back-up QB, to maybe filling some other need. Classic robbing Peter to pay Paul or borrowing your way out of debt, etc.
I have to agree with you on this AT. Unless a team is so desperate and would give us 3 or 4 picks, I wouldn't even think about trading Sage away. Now if Schaub was someone who never got hurt, and we had a 3rd string QB that could step in like Sage, it would be a different story. But at this time, it doesn't make any sense to do this. It would be like taking a step backwards. If we're going to get extra draft picks, it will probably come by trading back during the draft like they did this past draft when they traded back in the 4th and picked up an extra 5th rounder. JMHO!
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Old 12-05-2007   #45
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Having a backup QB in case your starter goes down is not a "luxury" it's "competent roster management".
It definitely is a luxury now that I think about it. Why? There are 32 teams, so with backups, there are 64 guys that could play QB in a regular season game in the NFL in a given week.

That is why there is a premium on quality backups.

At some point, backups are going to get to walk due to how free agency work. Which is why Atlanta delt Schaub.

Better to get value before that happens.

I don't know if Rosenfels is in high demand or if he will be at the end of the year.

But, I would rather have a young rookie starting at linebacker, offensive line, or defensive back, than having a player that is going to riding the bench.

Like I said too many holes on this team...
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Old 12-05-2007   #46
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

How long is his current contract w/ the Texans ?! When does he become an UFA ?



At this point Im keeping Sage on the roster ..... The O-line still blows and until this team puts some top tier talent in the OL .... Schaub will get some vacation time in early .... I want a back-up QB who can step in and get the job done .

Bad-The-Van-Puke anyone ?! Thought not .



Memo to Richard Smith : Fix the OL , no more 6th round favors , no more UDFA garbage . Spend some damn money and fix whats been ailing this team from day one .
/blue in the face


Just in case you are dyslexic or retarded whatever was wrong with that !d!07 you replaced as GM ..... LO ehT xiF


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Old 12-05-2007   #47
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
It definitely is a luxury now that I think about it. Why? There are 32 teams, so with backups, there are 64 guys that could play QB in a regular season game in the NFL in a given week.

That is why there is a premium on quality backups.

At some point, backups are going to get to walk due to how free agency work. Which is why Atlanta delt Schaub.

Better to get value before that happens.

I don't know if Rosenfels is in high demand or if he will be at the end of the year.

But, I would rather have a young rookie starting at linebacker, offensive line, or defensive back, than having a player that is going to riding the bench.

Like I said too many holes on this team...
1. Sage is signed to a 4 year deal that began in '06. So he's signed through '9. He's costing the Texans 1.6 mil in cap space. That is not premium money.

2. The reason ATL wanted Schaub is because he knew that teams would pay him a lot more money than what he was making in ATL and it was his contract year. Say it with me, contract year.

Now imagine this will you. Schaub goes down due to a late hit from some cheapshot artist. And out comes. . . Quincy Porter, or Bradlee Van Pelt under center. You would cry, I would cry, and the 1 draft pick that we would get for dealing Sage (Because no team is going to give us multiple picks for him) would also cry.

I don't see how you think having Sage on our team is keeping us below .500 when in reality, it's pretty much keeping us from going any lower. He has stepped in to no less than 3 games this year, and he started 1 and won it too? You're wanting to trade away our insurance policy for draft picks. If we did trade Sage we would absolutely have to spend the only draft pick we would get for him, on. . . another QB. It wouldn't work, and the only way it would happen is if somebody would be goofy enough to try to trade multiple (2+) draft picks to get him.

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan
It definitely is a luxury now that I think about it. Why? There are 32 teams, so with backups, there are 64 guys that could play QB in a regular season game in the NFL in a given week.

That is why there is a premium on quality backups.
What does that even mean? Lots of teams carry 3 QB's on their roster because the starter is old (Garcia and the Bucs) or they are in the middle of a QB carousel right now (Jackson, Minnesota).

If people are knocking down the door to get Sage then yeah, trade him for 2 or 3 picks. But I know that's not going to be the case this offseason. Dealing him, just to deal him is such a horrible way of shooting yourself in the foot, it's Casserly-like.

And here's a question I pose to you, would you rather have a young rookie taking snaps under center? Because that is what would happen if Schaub ever got hurt in a game (which has happened a lot so far), and we had dealt Sage for a single draft pick.

I just can't believe that this thread got started about Sage of all people, when who we should be shopping around for draft picks is Anthony Weaver. He takes up more cap space, produces less, and has more people to take his place than Sage does. He fits all the criteria for trade that Sage doesn't.
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Old 12-05-2007   #48
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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I don't see how you think having Sage on our team is keeping us below .500 when in reality, it's pretty much keeping us from going any lower.
The Texans need players, it's that simple. Keeping Sage isn't going to put the Texans over .500, if you wanna look at it from that perspective.

I understand the logic behind having a quality backup. In some circumstances, it is good to have, but it is a luxury the Texans don't need if they get good value.

Schaub and Sage cannot play at the same time. I would much rather have an impact player that will play every game. Meaning, the Texans could get a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I think the team would be a lot better off if they had a rookie sensation starting at linebacker, offensive line, or defensive back in place of Sage sitting on the bench coming in on spot duty.

Furthermore, whenever there is an injury on the offensive line and defensive backfield, we are picking guys off the street while being stacked at the QB position. The Texans need players, which is what I think is more important than carrying 2 QBs.

Also, Sage's contract is also an advantage because he locked up for a small amount of cap hit for the team that acquires him.

It would be in the Texans best interest to pursue the possibility of trading Sage if does well while Schaub is out and there is legit interest in obtaining his services.

That's all I am saying...

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
And here's a question I pose to you, would you rather have a young rookie taking snaps under center? Because that is what would happen if Schaub ever got hurt in a game (which has happened a lot so far), and we had dealt Sage for a single draft pick.
When I look at who the Texans have at RB, offensive line, and defensive backs, the answer to your question is yes. I would be more than happy to run that risk if it means drafting a rookie sensation to fill one of those holes.

It just amazes what the Texans will do for the QB position, but just ignore other positions.

Last edited by hollywood_texan; 12-05-2007 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 12-05-2007   #49
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

The issue with trading Sage is that someone would have to value him as a starter, not a quality reserve in order to get enough value to make losing him worthwhile. In essence, a veteran back-up QB, familiar with your system has more value to the team he is on than in the open market. In a lot of ways, he is like the dependable, paid for 2nd car. You don't realize the value until you either have to use the thing more than expected or you don't have one.
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Old 12-05-2007   #50
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
The issue with trading Sage is that someone would have to value him as a starter, not a quality reserve in order to get enough value to make losing him worthwhile. In essence, a veteran back-up QB, familiar with your system has more value to the team he is on than in the open market. In a lot of ways, he is like the dependable, paid for 2nd car. You don't realize the value until you either have to use the thing more than expected or you don't have one.
I hear what you are saying and really don't disagree with you or the other people I have responded to.

It's really a matter of perspective and analysis of the current situation regarding the roster.

You probably are right, Sage probably has more value to the Texans than any other team. It's one thing to be a quality backup QB in the NFL, it's another to be a legit starter learning a new system.

I would explore the opportunity though, that's for sure, and try to Casserly some other GM to the Texans benefit.
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Old 12-05-2007   #51
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

I can see your reasoning, but I just cannot agree with it. Unless there's a team that's willing to give up multiple picks, the value Sage brings to the Texans as a quality backup that does not take up that much cap space is more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder that would be a best case scenario we would get for him.

We would be plugging a hole at the line or backfield, and opening up a worse hole at our QB position. We would maybe solve one problem and definitely generate a way worse one.
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Old 12-05-2007   #52
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

If some team value's Sage as a starting calibur QB and is willing to break the bank to get him you have to pull the trigger ......

Problem is that I dont see Sage as a starter elsewhere . In reality he has had one REALLY good quarter of football against the Titan's while the rest of his play has been merely average at best .

Another thing is that I think the Texans offense suits him well ... systems can make or break a player . If those would be trade partners see him the same way I do then his value isnt near high enough to let him go .


More draft picks on this team would be a nice luxury as there are so many holes to fill .... LT , C , OLB , CB (im not counting on Dunta) and FS to name a few .... Sage just isnt the guy to trade to help fill those holes .
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Old 12-05-2007   #53
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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I can see your reasoning, but I just cannot agree with it. Unless there's a team that's willing to give up multiple picks, the value Sage brings to the Texans as a quality backup that does not take up that much cap space is more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder that would be a best case scenario we would get for him.

We would be plugging a hole at the line or backfield, and opening up a worse hole at our QB position. We would maybe solve one problem and definitely generate a way worse one.
I am lot more concerned about playing Ron Dayne, Chester Pitts, Ephirham Salem, Fred Weary, and on and on for another year.

If I could get one very good rookie starter to replace one of those guys and the trade off is moving Sage. Done!

I think you are looking at a one year of benefit, I am looking 3 to 4 years down the road. And what is that benefit from your perspective? Maybe a .500 record?

The Texans have to really start addressing the offensive line issues, need a big play running back, a quality linebacker, and the defensive backfield is just a complete mess. The Texans gave up two 2nd round draft picks and slipped two spots in the first to get Schaub. I think it is very clear Schaub it not the player to make the Texans better considering what they gave up for him. It was a push.

My point is the Texans don't have enough drafts picks to address glaring holes in the roster. Building a team through free agency and trades puts you in the mess we are in right now and is for the short term.
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Old 12-05-2007   #54
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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I just can't believe that this thread got started about Sage of all people, when who we should be shopping around for draft picks is Anthony Weaver. He takes up more cap space, produces less, and has more people to take his place than Sage does. He fits all the criteria for trade that Sage doesn't.
...except value to other teams

You basically answered your own question as to why people dont want to trade for Weaver instead of Sage.

Overpriced contract + less production on the field = Not so much value on the open market.
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Old 12-05-2007   #55
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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...except value to other teams

You basically answered your own question as to why people dont want to trade for Weaver instead of Sage.

Overpriced contract + less production on the field = Not so much value on the open market.
Weaver reminds me of Jay Foreman ...... Ugh. (yeah I know Different position)


The guy was made out to be a very good run stopper upon arival . Ive yet to really see that . In the Titans game Sunday .... Titans have the ball first and goal at the Texans seven (this is the Titans first scoring drive). Weaver gets driven backwards for 6 yards by White ..... down to the one . This type of play has been typical of the Texans defense for quite a while .
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Old 12-05-2007   #56
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

Trade him for a 2nd rounder. Trade our high 1st round pick for a low 1st round and second round pick. Then take Jonathan Stewart in the late first round, Colt Brennan in the high second round, and your late 2nd and 3rd round picks on OL and secondary.

RB upgraded, backup QB hole filled with a gifted potential future starter (toward the end of Schaub's contract), and holes at OL and secondary filled.

This all assumes, of course, that we land a premium lineman (Faneca?) and safety (Bob Sanders?) in free agency.
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Old 12-05-2007   #57
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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I have to agree with you on this AT. Unless a team is so desperate and would give us 3 or 4 picks, I wouldn't even think about trading Sage away. Now if Schaub was someone who never got hurt, and we had a 3rd string QB that could step in like Sage, it would be a different story. But at this time, it doesn't make any sense to do this. It would be like taking a step backwards. If we're going to get extra draft picks, it will probably come by trading back during the draft like they did this past draft when they traded back in the 4th and picked up an extra 5th rounder. JMHO!
Agreed: So going by this logic....we're so bad that we have to get draft picks out of players who have proved themselves on the roster, why not go whole hog ?
Lets trade Andre Johnson to Dallas for their two ones and two ?

No way ?

I mean that's basiclly what we are saying. We have a bad o-line any way, lets just trade away one of the better back ups in the league that affords you the luxury of saving a roster spot for a specail teams guy or an extra TE or FB. Instead...let's just keep three young guys suck up roster spots and let us get beat to death when MS goes down ? Is that it ?

So are you suggesting that we go next season with MS and the guy from New Mexico, San Deigo State and the guy from Tulsa as the primary back ups ?

Or are you posting that they should spend the third on the best QB that comes sliding down the board ? Just would like to see your plan for replacing Sage. Or are you going to pick up a FA guy who is determined by one of the other teams to not be ready for prime time yet ? One of Oakland's cast offs ? Just curious how you would fill this void .
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Old 12-05-2007   #58
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Agreed: So going by this logic....we're so bad that we have to get draft picks out of players who have proved themselves on the roster, why not go whole hog ?
Lets trade Andre Johnson to Dallas for their two ones and two ?

No way ?

I mean that's basiclly what we are saying. We have a bad o-line any way, lets just trade away one of the better back ups in the league that affords you the luxury of saving a roster spot for a specail teams guy or an extra TE or FB. Instead...let's just keep three young guys suck up roster spots and let us get beat to death when MS goes down ? Is that it ?

So are you suggesting that we go next season with MS and the guy from New Mexico, San Deigo State and the guy from Tulsa as the primary back ups ?

Or are you posting that they should spend the third on the best QB that comes sliding down the board ? Just would like to see your plan for replacing Sage. Or are you going to pick up a FA guy who is determined by one of the other teams to not be ready for prime time yet ? One of Oakland's cast offs ? Just curious how you would fill this void .
The offensive line and defensive backfield are full of band aids. If you could trade Sage to a get a starter in the second or third of next year's draft to fill one of those issues, I say you do it. The Texans need quality starters, not an insurance policy at this stage of the game.

I understand your point about the QB position and having a quality backup, but what about all the other positions that are lacking serious talent as well?

The Texans are going to have to get creative in order to revamp the roster. Sliding two spots last year and giving up to 2 second rounds picks set the Texans back at the expense of the QB position. That sure sounds famaliar!

Keeping Sage isn't going to build this team for the future and it isn't going to mean a push to be better than .500. Besides, due to free agency, Sage is going to get leave anyway if has the opportunity to start somewhere else. At least get some value when you acquired him for nothing.

Too many holes on the roster to say a backup QB is untouchable.

Last edited by hollywood_texan; 12-05-2007 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 12-05-2007   #59
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The offensive line and defensive backfield are full of band aids. If you could trade Sage to a get a starter in the second or third of next year's draft to fill one of those issues, I say you do it. The Texans need quality starters, not an insurance policy at this stage of the game.

I understand your point about the QB position and having a quality backup, but what about all the other positions that are lacking serious talent as well?

The Texans are going to have to get creative in order to revamp the roster. Sliding two spots last year and giving up to 2 second rounds picks set the Texans back at the expense of the QB position. That sure sounds famaliar!

Keeping Sage isn't going to build this team for the future and it isn't going to mean a push to be better than .500. Besides, due to free agency, Sage is going to get leave anyway if has the opportunity to start somewhere else. At least get some value when you acquired him for nothing.

Too many holes on the roster to say a backup QB is untouchable.


Two weeks ago I would of listened to this. Our o-line just got whiped out. There aren't just holes in the dam anymore we need to improve...there is no dam. It's gone. So just know going in that they aren't going to rebuild the o-line with quality draft picks in one draft. Too many holes not to keep a solid QB on the roster. Unless you're playing for the '09 draft and you want the team to crater in '08 on purpose ? Is that what you are posting ? Waist '08 to get at the '09 draft class ? Kubiack should of given the young o-line guys some snaps way befor it became a disater. He didn't . Why...he dosen't give up. He's stuborn. He honestly believed that they still had a chance even after the Jaxonville beat down. Even after McKinney went down. He's not going to waist a year to get to the quick fix. He dosen't operate that way. So let's trade A.J. and get a bunch of picks... I don't think so. They're going to need every roster spot they have to squeeze as many o-lineman onto the roster as they possibly can come cut downs in August. Wanna believe anything is going to happen believe that one.
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Last edited by threetoedpete; 12-05-2007 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 12-05-2007   #60
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Default Re: Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Two weeks ago I would of listened to this. Our o-line just got whiped out. There aren't just holes in the dam anymore we need to improve...there is no dam. It's gone. So just know going in that they aren't going to rebuild the o-line with quality draft picks in one draft. Too many holes not to keep a solid QB on the roster. Unless you're playing for the '09 draft and you want the team to crater in '08 on purpose ? Is that what you are posting ? Waist '08 to get at the '09 draft class ? Kubiack should of given the young o-line guys some snaps way befor it became a disater. He didn't . Why...he dosen't give up. He's stuborn. He honestly believed that they still had a chance even after the Jaxonville beat down. Even after McKinney went down. He's not going to waist a year to get to the quick fix. He dosen't operate that way. So let's trade A.J. and get a bunch of picks... I don't think so. They're going to need every roster spot they have to squeeze as many o-lineman onto the roster as they possibly can come cut downs in August. Wanna believe anything is going to happen believe that one.
I never said trade AJ or to even trade a starter. You are going down a path I didn't even bring up.

You mention McKinney on the offensive line. Without the injury he had this season, he probably wouldn't start on many teams in the NFL.

This whole injury issue for 2007 is really a misnomer, most of the players the Texans that were injured this year would have had a hard time finding a new team anyway if cut by the Texans.

Here is a question for you, how does trading your backup QB mean your throwing away a season anyway? It's a risk and it seems to be very expensive insurance that we really don't need at this point.

Like I said, given the current situation of the Texans, the backup QB should not be untouchable. Which seems to be what you are advocating.

I am not saying to give him away. But, pump up his value and see what you can get. Besides, with free agency and if is that good, he'll get his shot anyway and the Texans will not get any value in return. And just what is that value, we hang around just under .500. I am not saying one player will make the difference, but that one player could be an important piece of the puzzle the Texans wouldn't have otherwise. Futhermore, we gave up two 2nd round draft picks for a QB we have to provide insurance on. The cost of ownership with Texans QBs is ridiculous!

The Texans need players. If we can trade a backup QB to get a rookie starter on the offensive line, linebacker, RB, or defensive back. I say do it. You have to take risks to be successful.

I understand the concept you are coming from, but that doesn't mean it is applicable to every situation. The Texans situation is one of those situations.

Last edited by hollywood_texan; 12-05-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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