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Old 12-03-2007   #81
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

The QB play is clearly upgraded from the crap the team ran out for half a decade. I think we are fine with Schaub and Rosenfels for the next couple of seasons as long as we keep infusing the team with more talent and have another 2 good drafts. For all we know, Shane Boyd will be the QB here in 3 years so worrying about the future at this position is throwing darts. CC Brown had an awful day and the team really needs help in the secondary, the linebackers, we need a weakside edge rusher and another OLÖ.so we have much bigger problems than at QB for the next year or so. Itís clear to me that if Schaub canít stay healthy that Rosenfels is good enough to step in and manage the team even though he is an INT machine. The QB position isnít our biggest positional problem on this team anymore.
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Old 12-03-2007   #82
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Lets straighten this out. He had 3 his first two games with AJ. He then had 1 each in Weeks 3 and 4 without AJ. So in 5 through 10 he had zero and one game he was a bye, one he was out completely and one he was hurt halfway through. So he had 2 1/2 games without a TD
Lets straighten it out even further, he went 1, 2, 1 (I must have dozed off during the Falcon game) then went 0, 0, 0, 0, DNP.

So effectively win(AJ), win(AJ), Joey harrington out played me, ineffective, ineffective, can't stay healthy, can't stay healthy, can't stay healthy, Win(AJ), Schaub plays santa for Cleveland fans, AJ played?, can't stay healthy and possibly on IR.

That pretty much sums up the season for Matt Schaub. Oh and a 5-7 record, 9 INT's, 7 fumbles(3 lost).

Here is to hoping the Glass man has a better year 2.
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Old 12-03-2007   #83
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Great franchises also have great offensive lines. Period. End of story.

Put Brady or Manning behind our current line, and I'd be willing to be that they would not have the success that they have with their teams. Matter of fact, I have no doubts that they would struggle, as well.

Win the battle of the trenches, and even mediocre QBs can make plays. It's football fundamentals.
Pretty well said.
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Old 12-03-2007   #84
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Great franchises also have great offensive lines. Period. End of story.

Put Brady or Manning behind our current line, and I'd be willing to be that they would not have the success that they have with their teams. Matter of fact, I have no doubts that they would struggle, as well.

Win the battle of the trenches, and even mediocre QBs can make plays. It's football fundamentals.
Where have I heard this before?
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Old 12-03-2007   #85
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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The QB play is clearly upgraded from the crap the team ran out for half a decade. I think we are fine with Schaub and Rosenfels for the next couple of seasons as long as we keep infusing the team with more talent and have another 2 good drafts. For all we know, Shane Boyd will be the QB here in 3 years so worrying about the future at this position is throwing darts. CC Brown had an awful day and the team really needs help in the secondary, the linebackers, we need a weakside edge rusher and another OLÖ.so we have much bigger problems than at QB for the next year or so. Itís clear to me that if Schaub canít stay healthy that Rosenfels is good enough to step in and manage the team even though he is an INT machine. The QB position isnít our biggest positional problem on this team anymore.
We should have just kept our 2 second round picks and our original spot in the first and started Sage.
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Old 12-03-2007   #86
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Lets straighten it out even further, he went 1, 2, 1 (I must have dozed off during the Falcon game) then went 0, 0, 0, 0, DNP.

So effectively win(AJ), win(AJ), Joey harrington out played me, ineffective, ineffective, can't stay healthy, can't stay healthy, can't stay healthy, Win(AJ), Schaub plays santa for Cleveland fans, AJ played?, can't stay healthy and possibly on IR.

That pretty much sums up the season for Matt Schaub. Oh and a 5-7 record, 9 INT's, 7 fumbles(3 lost).

Here is to hoping the Glass man has a better year 2.
I don't think you can just trot out those stats and mark it as "ineffective" though when you are considering no McKinney and no AJ. We won the Miami game in Week 5 and he was 20 of 34 with 294 yards and 1 pick. I wouldn't say that is horrible at all. The Jacksonville game wasn't pretty but still 259 yards in a horrible team effort. San Diego was terrible. Hurt for Tenn. I mean I wouldn't exactly say that he just busted out in all these games because of no TDs. The team as a whole was abysmal in some losses. I really think you are overinflating some of the problems compared to where we have had bigger issues.
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Old 12-03-2007   #87
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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We should have just kept our 2 second round picks and our original spot in the first and started Sage.
yeah, that's almost as good as the Commander Carlson plan.
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Old 12-03-2007   #88
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I don't think you can just trot out those stats and mark it as "ineffective" though when you are considering no McKinney and no AJ. We won the Miami game in Week 5 and he was 20 of 34 with 294 yards and 1 pick. I wouldn't say that is horrible at all. The Jacksonville game wasn't pretty but still 259 yards in a horrible team effort. San Diego was terrible. Hurt for Tenn. I mean I wouldn't exactly say that he just busted out in all these games because of no TDs. The team as a whole was abysmal in some losses. I really think you are overinflating some of the problems compared to where we have had bigger issues.
I would agree with this to a point but I don't think think the inability to score is over inflating the problem. Schaub does not have enough athleticism to over come a bad passing day. Meaning that unlike VY and Gerrard he can't make plays with his feet and Manning has enough testicle fortitude to will out a win.

And I use those three as example b/c those are the three we are chasing.
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Old 12-03-2007   #89
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Where have I heard this before?
It's a broken record for our franchise's history.

My point was that your rant about Schaub is incomplete when considering the talent around him. No QB is going to succeed when they are constantly pressured and cannot trust the pocket.
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Old 12-03-2007   #90
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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I would agree with this to a point but I don't think think the inability to score is over inflating the problem. Schaub does not have enough athleticism to over come a bad passing day. Meaning that unlike VY and Gerrard he can't make plays with his feet and Manning has enough testicle fortitude to will out a win.

And I use those three as example b/c those are the three we are chasing.
What does Schaub not have that Manning, Garrard, and Young all have on their teams?

Hmmm, wonder what it could be.....
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Old 12-03-2007   #91
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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yeah, that's almost as good as the Commander Carlson plan.
In all honesty, what is the difference between Carlson and Schaub? Carlson was good, he had his moments of brilliance, heck he almost threw two thousand yards the season he replaced Moon as the starter until, well, he got hurt, tearing his groin playing the Patriots.

I don't believe there is that much of a difference from Schaub to Sage and not worth what we gave up for Schaub if we already had Sage.
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Old 12-03-2007   #92
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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We should have just kept our 2 second round picks and our original spot in the first and started Sage.
It's like we got divorced and remarried the next day, regarding dumping Carr and trading for Schaub. The second wife is good but the marriage is probably doomed due to the circumstances. Otherwise, it probably would have worked just fine.

The Texans don't seem to be any better than they were this time last year when looking at the overal talent.

Yes, we improved our QB position, but we don't have two 2nd picks and slipped two slots in the first. Considering where the Texans where last year on talent level, very few players would have been able to bridge that gap.

Which was my whole issue with that trade.

I like Schaub and he probably will be a good QB, but it seems like we are expeting too much from him.

The Texans organizaiton has just been so fascinated with this QB thing beyond what the team has and what the guy can really deliver.
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Old 12-03-2007   #93
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I would agree with this to a point but I don't think think the inability to score is over inflating the problem. Schaub does not have enough athleticism to over come a bad passing day. Meaning that unlike VY and Gerrard he can't make plays with his feet and Manning has enough testicle fortitude to will out a win.

And I use those three as example b/c those are the three we are chasing.
That can't all be on Schaub. That is putting all points or scoring on one guys shoulders instead of saying.."if we had a break away back to help the offense, it would open up the passing game." I wouldn't call Brady or Manning "mobile." So why VY or Gerrard as examples. Gerrard has Fred Taylor and MJD and a line. I mean if you have a hurt and ineffective line and a running back that is as slow as Christmas why should your QB have to win with inferior talent?

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It's a broken record for our franchise's history.

My point was that your rant about Schaub is incomplete when considering the talent around him. No QB is going to succeed when they are constantly pressured and cannot trust the pocket.
Again!
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Old 12-03-2007   #94
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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It's like we got divorced and remarried the next day, regarding dumping Carr and trading for Schaub. The second wife is good but the marriage is probably doomed due to the circumstances. Otherwise, it probably would have worked just fine.

The Texans don't seem to be any better than they were this time last year when looking at the overal talent...
I don't agree with this sentiment at all. The team that started off 2-0 and played Indy tough is not the same team we're seeing now. I think it's unfair to compare the 2007 Texans with last year's team considering the way the surgeon's scalpel has gutted the roster.
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Old 12-03-2007   #95
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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That can't all be on Schaub. That is putting all points or scoring on one guys shoulders instead of saying.."if we had a break away back to help the offense, it would open up the passing game." I wouldn't call Brady or Manning "mobile." So why VY or Gerrard as examples. Gerrard has Fred Taylor and MJD and a line. I mean if you have a hurt and ineffective line and a running back that is as slow as Christmas why should your QB have to win with inferior talent?



Again!
With Manning and Brady its about arm strength and accuracy. Notice that those two always have receivers open? Thats b/c both of those guys can thread the needle and put the ball were it has to go in a hurry. Hell even Gafney is open on the Patriots squad.

The other thing that those guys have that Schaub does not seem to have is a killer instinct. His inability to score once the field has been shortened. Sure Schaub has been good this year going from our 20 to there 40 but its from there 40 to the EZ that we seem to have all kinds of trouble.

Same thing with John Kitna, all kinds of passing yards and no points to show for it.
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Old 12-03-2007   #96
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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In all honesty, what is the difference between Carlson and Schaub? Carlson was good, he had his moments of brilliance, heck he almost threw two thousand yards the season he replaced Moon as the starter until, well, he got hurt, tearing his groin playing the Patriots.

I don't believe there is that much of a difference from Schaub to Sage and not worth what we gave up for Schaub if we already had Sage.
You are making Schaub out to be a scapegoat. Going into a season with Sage and nobody would have been a laughable plan. When the team had a chance to be honest with themselves and not extend Carr to the max and draft a big strong QB they passed. We now have a workable tandem till the rest of the team is built. You can get all bent over the Schaub deal but the QB situation is fine with both of those guys here for now. Sure they should have drafted Culter or Young, but we can't do anything about that and they did the right thing in bringing in Schaub since he brought some credible QB'ing to the franchise (it's almost impossible to win in the NFL with bad quarterbacking...just look at our old teams and the Panthers). This team can win with those guys but won't ever win with the many holes in the roster we see today. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if we had Boyd start in a couple of years.....but I don't regret making the Schaub deal even if he was hurt a few times this season. Schaub is still a young QB in my eyes and the jury is out, but he deserves another camp and another shot to lead the team when it has more players.
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Old 12-03-2007   #97
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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With Manning and Brady its about arm strength and accuracy. Notice that those two always have receivers open? Thats b/c both of those guys can thread the needle and put the ball were it has to go in a hurry. Hell even Gafney is open on the Patriots squad.

The other thing that those guys have that Schaub does not seem to have is a killer instinct. His inability to score once the field has been shortened. Sure Schaub has been good this year going from our 20 to there 40 but its from there 40 to the EZ that we seem to have all kinds of trouble.

Same thing with John Kitna, all kinds of passing yards and no points to show for it.
Yeah and the fact that they both have all day to throw. You know why Brady's receivers are open....because you can only cover a guy for so long in the NFL and if a QB sits in the pocket he can throw perfectly. Also when you have a healthy Randy Moss you can throw it up for grabs. They run 5 WRs sets. Schaub has made some really good throws. The team looks up to him. He is in his first real year. Manning struggled off the bat. I'm not sure how you can compare our new QB getting his first starts vs two SB winning QBs right now. The Pats have had one injury..on defense. Both teams have elite lines.

We have trouble inside the 20s because it takes talent to work when the field shrinks and we don't have it...or a running game. Vinny preached about the field being shorter earlier in the year.

Overall you are expecting a QB in his first year starting and a group of castoffs and one great WR to get over injuries and emulate 2 SB teams. It doesn't jive with our talent.
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Old 12-03-2007   #98
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

Another thing to consider, the reason Schaub was a 3rd pick, he had a shoulder injury that limited his play in 2003 with Virginia.
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Old 12-03-2007   #99
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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With Manning and Brady its about arm strength and accuracy. Notice that those two always have receivers open? Thats b/c both of those guys can thread the needle and put the ball were it has to go in a hurry. Hell even Gafney is open on the Patriots squad.
Note to TEXANRED: 30 other teams are unhappy with their QBs when comparing them to Manning and Brady.

You said it yourself: "Hell even Gafney is open..." What could possibly be giving Gaffney enough time to get open? Oh yeah, protection.

BTW, you will never be happy with our QB if Manning and Brady are your standards of comparison.
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Old 12-03-2007   #100
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

Boyd is on the practice squad, correct?

That means ANY team can sign him away from us.

Doesn't look to promising, IMO, to see him on this team in 2-3 years. it would take BOTH of our QBs getting hurt simultaneously.

I really liked watching Boyd when we played the Cardinals in the preseason. He was moving the ball down the field with his arm AND his legs.

We're soooooooo far away from being a good team. It's almost depressing just thinking about how many moves it takes for us to jump up to playoff contender.
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