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Old 12-03-2007   #61
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
I didn't feel like reading this whole thread. Here's my 2 cents.

Q: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

A: No. 9 TDs, 9 INT's. That's most likely the last we'll see of him this year. His grade for the season is an "I."

Ephraim Salaam was not brought in to be the starting LT. He was brought in for depth. When he totally misses a block and gets his QB's shoulder dislocated, it's pretty easy to see why.

I don't know what the hell Schaub could have done about it. The Tacks just have our number. They know where the weakness in the O-Line is and they exploit it every time.

Seems to me like when the issue of "durability" comes up as it pertains to the QB play, it's really a Carr homer take in disguise. Troy Aikman wasn't very durable either. That didn't seem to bother the Hall of Fame voters.

I'll take Schaub's fundamental skills over Carr's durability anyday. It wouldn't surprise me if Carr isn't even on an NFL roster next season.
Not comparing the two but a good point. Some guys, early in the career get knocked around pretty hard but are still successful. There were Cowboy SB years where Kosar and Beurlein had to step up.

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I've seen enough.

I see no difference between Carr and Schaub under the center other than Carr wouldn't be missing out on so many games.
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Old 12-03-2007   #62
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
I've seen enough.

I see no difference between Carr and Schaub under the center other than Carr wouldn't be missing out on so many games.
Really? No difference at all? Do you watch football? For everything that will go unanswered regarding Schaub this season, I don't think his superiority to Carr should be called into question.
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Old 12-03-2007   #63
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

Schaub looks to be a good QB. But, the problem is he isn't good enough to make the Texans better while giving up two 2nd round draft picks. Which was my issue with that trade from the beginning. My position was, let Sage take the reigns and build a strong core of players through the draft!

In the Schaub deal, it seems it is a push when grading the overall talent on the team from 06 to 07. Definite improvement at the QB position, but the other positions just seem to either be holding the line or getting worse.

The Texans seems to be in desperate need of offensive linemen and a dependable big play running back to really help out Schaub. Unfortunately, the draft may not play out to draft one of those positions, which has been the issue for the last several years. Which is why you need your 2nd round picks!

Making trades and dipping in the free agency market is not how to build a consistent strong franchise.
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Old 12-03-2007   #64
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

I took this from a reply in the Chronicle Z Report blog. You guys may worship Schaub all you want but he has only completed 7 of 10 games he has started, in the schools I went to 70% was a 'D'.

Feel free to dissect the following numbers all you want but numbers don't lie, be it 5 yard dumpoffs or 70 yard passes to AJ, it all equals out. Some of you search for excuses to make your point more viable, and say things like 'Do you even watch football?' Funny. I don't have to give my words meaning by demeaning you so feel free to read the following it may open your eyes some.

----------------------------------------------------------

Carr only had 13 TD'S passing and running, but 19 TO'S on both Int & fumbles all of last year. All of this occurred with 41 sacks regardless of who fault there were.

Schaub and Sage are responsible to date for 17 TD's, & 20 Turnovers, but this has happened on only 18 sacks and we have 5 more games to go.

We are going to have many more turnovers on fewer sacks. It should go the other way. Less sacks should equal healthy QB, fewer TO'S and more wins.

------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your time.
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Old 12-03-2007   #65
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Schaub looks to be a good QB. But, the problem is he isn't good enough to make the Texans better while giving up two 2nd round draft picks. Which was my issue with that trade from the beginning. My position was, let Sage take the reigns and build a strong core of players through the draft!

Making trades and dipping in the free agency market is not how to build a consistent strong franchise.
Very well said. I agree wholeheartedly even though I like Carr this would've worked as well.
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Old 12-03-2007   #66
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
I took this from a reply in the Chronicle Z Report blog. You guys may worship Schaub all you want but he has only completed 7 of 10 games he has started, in the schools I went to 70% was a 'D'.

Feel free to dissect the following numbers all you want but numbers don't lie, be it 5 yard dumpoffs or 70 yard passes to AJ, it all equals out. Some of you search for excuses to make your point more viable, and say things like 'Do you even watch football?' Funny. I don't have to give my words meaning by demeaning you so feel free to read the following it may open your eyes some.

----------------------------------------------------------

Carr only had 13 TD'S passing and running, but 19 TO'S on both Int & fumbles all of last year. All of this occurred with 41 sacks regardless of who fault there were.

Schaub and Sage are responsible to date for 17 TD's, & 20 Turnovers, but this has happened on only 18 sacks and we have 5 more games to go.

We are going to have many more turnovers on fewer sacks. It should go the other way. Less sacks should equal healthy QB, fewer TO'S and more wins.

------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your time.
I think your thinking is warped. I don't like our Turnover numbers at all but how are Sage's tunrovers attributed to Schaub and wouldn't you expect some more ints when you actually are trying to stretch the field?

I'm sorry but if you know anything about football, how the QB position is played, etc then there is no way that you can even watch games this season and come to the conclusion that Schaub and Carr are even on the same level. Especially considering we are working with the same weapons and many of the weapons have been out this year. He isn't a savior but better than we had by a long shot. Don't take the comments as demeaning but you have to watch a guy play, pocket presence, getting the team involved, etc to have any idea vs. the stats you just threw out.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 12-03-2007 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 12-03-2007   #67
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
even though I like Carr
Never would have guessed...

Time to move on. Sometimes we just bet on the wrong horse.

They're about ready to run that horse out of Charlotte now.
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Old 12-03-2007   #68
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

If they don't give Carr, er I mean Schaub, 5 years to prove himself then something is clearly wrong.
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Old 12-03-2007   #69
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
Carr only had 13 TD'S passing and running, but 19 TO'S on both Int & fumbles all of last year. All of this occurred with 41 sacks regardless of who fault there were.
Is this one particular year, an average, a total, or what? If you want to make a fair comparison, compare Schaub's numbers to Carr's first year.
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Old 12-03-2007   #70
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I think your thinking is warped. I don't like our Turnover numbers at all but how are Sage's tunrovers attributed to Schaub and wouldn't you expect some more ints when you actually are trying to stretch the field?

I'm sorry but if you know anything about football, how the QB position is played, etc then there is no way that you can even watch games this season and come to the conclusion that Schaub and Carr are even on the same level. Especially considering we are working with the same weapons and many of the weapons have been out this year. He isn't a savior but better than we had by a long shot. Don't take the comments as demeaning but you have to watch a guy play, pocket presence, getting the team involved, etc to have any idea vs. the stats you just threw out.
Yes you are right I know nothing about football.

But you obviously can't read, those stats weren't written by me but are an eye opener. He put Sage and Schaub together in his stat comparison, this was also written in there. Again, please read before responding to me I'm not known for sugarcoating peoples ignorance.

I don't have the film in front of me but I'm fairly certain Schaub has had more than one INT in the opponents territory, so drop the long ball spreading the field theory. It is about placing the ball where the receiver can get it, but again, I don't know much about the QB position.

I'd rather have David Carr or Sage for 16 complete games than Schaub for 7, I'd like to think mathematically you can win more games playing 16 games than 7 but if I am mistaken on that line of thinking please let me know.
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Old 12-03-2007   #71
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
Is this one particular year, an average, a total, or what? If you want to make a fair comparison, compare Schaub's numbers to Carr's first year.
Why, is Schaub a rookie on a first year expansion team? Must have missed that.
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Old 12-03-2007   #72
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

wow, ready to give up on Schaub already, eh? well that makes sense. luckily there are tons of good quarterbacks just lying around out there so it'll be very easy to replace him.
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Old 12-03-2007   #73
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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ow much about the QB position.

I'd rather have David Carr or Sage for 16 complete games than Schaub for 7...
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Old 12-03-2007   #74
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
Yes you are right I know nothing about football.

But you obviously can't read, those stats weren't written by me but are an eye opener. He put Sage and Schaub together in his stat comparison, this was also written in there. Again, please read before responding to me I'm not known for sugarcoating peoples ignorance.

I don't have the film in front of me but I'm fairly certain Schaub has had more than one INT in the opponents territory, so drop the long ball spreading the field theory. It is about placing the ball where the receiver can get it, but again, I don't know much about the QB position.

I'd rather have David Carr or Sage for 16 complete games than Schaub for 7, I'd like to think mathematically you can win more games playing 16 games than 7 but if I am mistaken on that line of thinking please let me know.
You said it not me.

I know those stats weren't by you but you are skipping some things. You are saying that you think Carr and Schaub are the same but you are attributing stats from Sage. You are also taking a guys 5th years vs a 1st year. You also don't take into account the number of passes over 40 yards that we have risen on or above 20. You also fail to respond to team injuries. You just can't say that Schaub would have reached those numbers if he played. I never knew in this day and age that QBs all made it through the years unscathed. I guess Aikman and all those others that mised 3-4 games a year in SB years were off too.

Considering your boy isn't even the second stringer on Carolina's team anymore I think you lost all credibility with your first point. Sorry, it is proven. Again, I find many faults with Schaub's game but watching him and saying he is on the same level as Carr last year is laughable. It just is. Not a great QB at all but better than what we dealt with.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 12-03-2007 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 12-03-2007   #75
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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So you are going to dog on Schaub for not making enough TDs when he has Andre Johnson to throw to, then you are going to say that having Andre Johnson shouldnt matter, he should be doing it all by himself?

.........

oooook
That is exactly what I am saying. If Moss and TO can have a QB that gets them 13+ TD's why not AJ? IMO, he is just as good if not better than those guys. Schaub threw 4 TD passes in the first two games, and 4 TD passes in the last three weeks, that means weeks 3 thru 10 he had 1, this is not a typo, 1, TD pass.

There is something wrong with a QB that only manages 1 TD pass in 5 weeks (minus one week for the bye week and then minus two weeks due to injury)

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I think people expect too much from Schaub. He is the savior of our franchise in that he replaced David Carr. He doesn't have to be Manning 2.0
Great franchises have great QB's. Period. Why do you think that Dallas and the 49ers and the Steelers have five rings and the Patriots chasing down a fourth? B/C they get great QB play.

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Would it be so terrible if we just had a good QB that can move the ball and find the open man? Do we have to have a guy that can win the superbowl with third stringers?
Yes to the first, that is just settling for mediocrity. Yes, see Brady.

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There arent many QBs in the league that dont struggle when their best target is gone for 7 freaking games. And Schaub also has to deal with poor protection and a bad running game.
Now we are back to the protection excuse? He has only been sacked 17 times. Dayne has been averaging 90 yards a game over the last four weeks.
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Old 12-03-2007   #76
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

This thread makes baby raptor jesus cry.
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Old 12-03-2007   #77
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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This thread makes baby raptor jesus cry.
Why baby raptor Jesus? He was a grown man, he had a beard.
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Old 12-03-2007   #78
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
That is exactly what I am saying. If Moss and TO can have a QB that gets them 13+ TD's why not AJ? IMO, he is just as good if not better than those guys. Schaub threw 4 TD passes in the first two games, and 4 TD passes in the last three weeks, that means weeks 3 thru 10 he had 1, this is not a typo, 1, TD pass.
Lets straighten this out. He had 3 his first two games with AJ. He then had 1 each in Weeks 3 and 4 without AJ. So in 5 through 10 he had zero and one game was a bye, one he was out completely and one he was hurt halfway through. So he had 2 1/2 games without a TD

As for the protection issue. I'd chalk that up to a testament to his work in the pocket. From seeing the games since McKinney has been out I wouldn't call it protection. He also stands in and takes some hits...of source he got hurt. The running game just seems to be anything the last two and I wouldn't call Ron Dayne someone that forces teams to change their plan.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 12-03-2007 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 12-03-2007   #79
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
Yes you are right I know nothing about football.

I'd rather have David Carr or Sage for 16 complete games than Schaub for 7, I'd like to think mathematically you can win more games playing 16 games than 7 but if I am mistaken on that line of thinking please let me know.
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Old 12-03-2007   #80
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Great franchises have great QB's. Period. Why do you think that Dallas and the 49ers and the Steelers have five rings and the Patriots chasing down a fourth? B/C they get great QB play.
Great franchises also have great offensive lines. Period. End of story.

Put Brady or Manning behind our current line, and I'd be willing to be that they would not have the success that they have with their teams. Matter of fact, I have no doubts that they would struggle, as well.

Win the battle of the trenches, and even mediocre QBs can make plays. It's football fundamentals.
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