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Old 12-02-2007   #41
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

I didn't get a chance to see the hit today, but the thing to remember is that when Schaub left some of these games this year, they weren't due to some ankle, or phantom injuries, the guy got a legitimate beat down.

During the first Titan game in Week 7, he received an illegal helmet to helmet hit from Haynesworth, and then again in Week 8, he suffered another illegal hit in the Chargers game knocking him out w/ a CONCUSSION. I mean it was such a cheap hit that the league even went back and fined the player 15k. I don't know about you guys, but if you get a dirty shot to the head and suffer a concussion, I'm not sure there is too much you can do.
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Old 12-02-2007   #42
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by Grid View Post
P.S. there is absolutely nothing wrong with his arms strength. He gets the ball down field very well (look at all the huge touchdowns AJ has had), and his accuracy is very good. No he wont be throwing 15 yard passes that appear to teleport from his hand to the receivers hands (before promptly bouncing out and triggering a tip drill), but he has enough power behind his throws to thread a ball between defenders.. hes done it numerous times this year.
I'm a fan of his. But accuracy has not been his strong suit so far. I think it has a lot to do with the line... and don't give me completion%. He doesn't put people in a position to run. That is part of accuracy.
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Old 12-03-2007   #43
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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But that is my point, if Schaub was the savior of our franchise than he should have been able compensate with his play. It didn't happen.

Manning wins without Harrison, Brady wins with who ever is there.
So you are going to dog on Schaub for not making enough TDs when he has Andre Johnson to throw to, then you are going to say that having Andre Johnson shouldnt matter, he should be doing it all by himself?

.........

oooook

I think people expect too much from Schaub. He is the savior of our franchise in that he replaced David Carr. He doesnt have to be Manning 2.0

Would it be so terrible if we just had a good QB that can move the ball and find the open man? Do we have to have a guy that can win the superbowl with third stringers?

There arent many QBs in the league that dont struggle when their best target is gone for 7 freaking games. And Schaub also has to deal with poor protection and a bad running game.

And yes we DO have a bad running game. The last few weeks it has been decent..but for the majority of the season we struggled to move the ball at all on the ground.
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Old 12-03-2007   #44
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
I'm a fan of his. But accuracy has not been his strong suit so far. I think it has a lot to do with the line... and don't give me completion%. He doesn't put people in a position to run. That is part of accuracy.

People dwell on his mistakes and ignore all the passes he has made to double and triple covered receivers.

Go back and watch the games again and you will see him making more good throws than bad ones. Hell, seems like every game he makes one or two really scary passes to Owen Daniels with defenders all around him.


Oh, and to the guy that compared Schaub's accuracy percentage to David Carr's last year. I cant decide if you just dont watch the games, or if you are ignoring the truth in an attempt to make Schaub look bad (for whatever reason). But everyone knows that the only reason Carr had a 68% completion rating is because 3/4 of his passes were dump offs because he no longer had the nerve to stay in the pocket. Schaub makes plays.
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Old 12-03-2007   #45
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Who would that someone else be?
I can hardly believe we're having this conversation. You want to dump a guy that's doing fairly well because he got hurt. Yet you offer no alternative. What you propose is to insert a new guy who has to learn the offense and earn the level of respect that Matt has developed with the team. You may as well throw away the next two seasons if you make that move.
Major rep coming your way, it couldn't of been said any better.
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Old 12-03-2007   #46
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Wow.

This seems familiar. Been going on every year for the past 4 years or so.

We drop out of the playoff picture and everyone's at each other's throats.

LOL.

Schaub is awful. If the guy needs perfect protection, then he's awful. There's not a QB in the NFL who doesn't get smacked every now and then. And Schaub has shown that he can't take a hit.

Burn me at the message board stake if you wish, but this QB gamble is a losing deal. No need for stats. Wins and losses are all that matter. The guy can't even finish a game.

But please let me know how he'll magically get better. He's not a first-year rookie, fellas.

I SHOULD copy this and pull it out when Schaub wins his next game, just so that I can show you how much you are overreacting...but im not going to (mostly cause id forget).

Schaub got jacked up twice in a row.. the second time he fell awkwardly on his arm and his shoulder got dislocated. Its not like he took a hit in the chest and decided he couldnt play anymore. I mean if a truck drove onto the field and he got run over would you still be complaining about how he lacks durability? Because his injury today was just as unavoidable.

No, Schaub isnt durable.. but I personally think he would be fine if our Oline would stop this "well we are just gonna let a couple guys through for the next 8 downs" shit. A hit every now and again isnt gonna kill him.. its when he gets beat on constantly for 20 minutes that he ends up getting injured.

Seriously.. he has been out twice this year.. and both times it was the product of constant bad protection for an extended period of time.
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Old 12-03-2007   #47
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I don't think that is quite right. Some posters (not me in this case) questioned the Scaub deal when it was made becasue it was a lot to give up for a player with little more experience than a rookie. This opinion was frequently and sometimes vociferously condemned because Schaub had been on an NFL some seasons. A lot of the time the dissenting posters were labeled as Carr or Vince lovers, usually erroneously.

======================

Schaub's skills are the least of the Texans problems; his health might turn out to be more problematic.

I, for one, questioned the Schaub deal. Many, if not most, talked about how he was the MOST coveted backup QB in the league and were comparing him to Favre, blah, blah, blah. Well IMO, the 2nd coming of Favre and the most coveted backup QB in the league would have gone for at least a mid-1st round pick. How many other teams out there needed QB's and didn't go for the famous backup QB? At Atlanta, his stats showed he was only an average backup QB and was inconsistent from game to game. Guess what we've discovered? He's inconsistent from game to game .... OMG, it's like his history was right or something.... imagine that!

Many defend him as being basically a rookie QB. Well, isn't Derek Anderson basically a rookie QB who wasn't nearly as coveted as Matt and NOBODY ever called him the 2nd coming of Favre ........... and DA's stats are far better than Matt's and we could have had him for nada! So IMO, to expect a little more from Matt is not too much to expect at this point.

Please don't misunderstand me. He is better than last year's #8 but, he is not and does not appear that he ever will be an all-pro QB in this league.

I'm not totally down on Matt. But, the facts are the facts, he has been inconsistent, his stats are what they were in Atlanta .... mediocre, and he has not been durable.

Just as I emphasized in the off-season, we needed to address the oline before any QB can look like an all-pro on this team and I was "vociferously condemned" (see above) because it was all last year's #8's fault and our oline was going to be tremendously better because of Matt. It was even suggested how much better our running game would be because of Matt. In fact, I think the cheerleaders were even going to be better looking because of Matt!

Bottom line, I want Matt to be better, I want him to be Favre, I want him to be all-pro ........ but he ain't.
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Old 12-03-2007   #48
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

I was and continue to be a fan of the move to make the trade for Schaub -
in theory. Yout have to take chances from time to time to succeed in this league. But as a back-up in ATL he did have limited playing time in the NFL so the uncertainty of his ability to be a full-time QB represented the big downside to the decision. And now we are seeing a very bad scenario in that downside in a QB who appears to be injury prone.
But the Texans hedged their bet on Schaub by having a relatively modest investment in guaranteed money (I'm thinking only 'bout 7 million?). The biggest investment of course was the 2 second round picks, but the point is our future isn't tied to Schaub and its possible Sage or another player and not Schaub could still be our QB of the future.
McNair I'm sure has learned a lot about getting too close to his QB and he will probably move quicker next time to make the necessary change. And that also goes for his HCs I would hope.
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Old 12-03-2007   #49
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by adam View Post
In his last season with us, David Carr completed 68% of his passes. I suppose that makes Carr the smarter passer, eh? No. Comp.% (while there is a spot where you'd like your QB to be) is probably one of the most overrated passing stats that is frequently used to measure a QB. The stupid passes I refer to are the ones that are thrown to covered receivers behind the first down marker on third down (sound familiar?). I have also seen him chuck it into double and triple coverage a number of times when he should have just thrown it away.
This is when I stopped reading considering Carr never went down field and right now we have a pretty high number of passes downfield compared to last year.

Grid, welcome back to overreaction 101. 2 weeks ago he was a stud.

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I was and continue to be a fan of the move to make the trade for Schaub -
in theory. Yout have to take chances from time to time to succeed in this league. But as a back-up in ATL he did have limited playing time in the NFL so the uncertainty of his ability to be a full-time QB represented the big downside to the decision. And now we are seeing a very bad scenario in that downside in a QB who appears to be injury prone.
But the Texans hedged their bet on Schaub by having a relatively modest investment in guaranteed money (I'm thinking only 'bout 7 million?). The biggest investment of course was the 2 second round picks, but the point is our future isn't tied to Schaub and its possible Sage or another player and not Schaub could still be our QB of the future.
McNair I'm sure has learned a lot about getting too close to his QB and he will probably move quicker next time to make the necessary change. And that also goes for his HCs I would hope.
Thanks for being level-headed. Right you are. Not only that but you can chalk up one of the #2s as if we used it on drafting him. So basically we gave up a future #2.

I'm happy with the guy and his play. I think it is the best QBing we have seen as a franchise when it comes to getting it downfield, pocket presence, etc. His durability is a concern. It is something we will need to address as this goes along.
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Old 12-03-2007   #50
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

Wow.... Dont understand where this came from.

When Schaub is in, MOST of his interceptions (not all) were not his fault. How you say? How many times have you seen a ball thrown to be bumped up into the air by the reciever, then intercepted. Maybe some will argue about the lack of finace (sp?), but when he is in, he is a very good qb.
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Old 12-03-2007   #51
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Old 12-03-2007   #52
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

As far as the durability goes, does Schaub even try to gain weight? I mean he's what?--6'5" and 170 or something? I don't see how he could be trying to gain weight and still be that skinny, and I would think that gaining some weight would help with his durability.

It's the holidays. Somebody get that man outta the tape room and FEED him.

OK, maybe he just looks so skinny because he's getting hit by 350 lb. nose-guards, but he could still gain some weight.
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Old 12-03-2007   #53
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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As far as the durability goes, does Schaub even try to gain weight? I mean he's what?--6'5" and 170 or something? I don't see how he could be trying to gain weight and still be that skinny, and I would think that gaining some weight would help with his durability.

It's the holidays. Somebody get that man outta the tape room and FEED him.

OK, maybe he just looks so skinny because he's getting hit by 350 lb. nose-guards, but he could still gain some weight.
Although I'd gather you're joking, but I believe he could use a little strength training. Schaub has the size of a prototypical QB, but it appears to me he lacks the strength for his body size. I think he needs to work on his strength and conditioning this off-season. He'll be fine.

I like Schaub and I definetely think he's got what it takes to become a good QB for us. I do not expect him to be a Manning, Brady, Favre, etc., but I do want him to have the durability to go into battle with his teamates week in week out.
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Old 12-03-2007   #54
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Old 12-03-2007   #55
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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This is when I stopped reading considering Carr never went down field and right now we have a pretty high number of passes downfield compared to last year.
I find it funny that no one can make a case for Schaub's play outside of the "at least he isn't David Carr" argument. Make no mistake, Schaub is better than Carr. You'll never catch me arguing that. However, Trent Edwards is
better than J.P. Losman. Philip Rivers is better than Ryan Leaf. Do you see where I am going with this? Being better than someone who sucks, even when those keeping track have gotten used to the sucking of a particular individual, does not make you spectacular by any means.

Either way, I can tell you didn't finish reading my post because you obviously missed the point. The point of that section of my post wasn't to display Carr's superior completion percentage but to rather point out that completion percentage is a poor way judge the level of intelligence a QB displays when throwing the football. Case in point, David Carr had a high completion percentage. Yet, he still made stupid passes. Matt Schaub has a high completion percentage, yet still makes stupid passes.

All of that said, I am not over-reacting. I have not called for him to be cut. In fact, I have called for him to be IR'd so that he'll be at 100% for next season. I'm not gonna cut him off after one season. However, I am going to be objective when analyzing him. I am not going to play homer with the most important position on the field. I saw an old thread that was bumped awhile ago concerning David Carr that was made when he still played here. As you could imagine, a lot of people had his back and lauded his play. Particularly his ability to complete a large percentage of his passes. Yet, when he got cut, everyone that was pro-Carr came around and looked at him objectively and realized that he wasn't the golden QB that they thought he was. Playing for the team I love doesn't mean that Schaub is without fault.
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Old 12-03-2007   #56
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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I find it funny that no one can make a case for Schaub's play outside of the "at least he isn't David Carr" argument. Make no mistake, Schaub is better than Carr. You'll never catch me arguing that. However, Trent Edwards is
better than J.P. Losman. Philip Rivers is better than Ryan Leaf. Do you see where I am going with this? Being better than someone who sucks, even when those keeping track have gotten used to the sucking of a particular individual, does not make you spectacular by any means.

Either way, I can tell you didn't finish reading my post because you obviously missed the point. The point of that section of my post wasn't to display Carr's superior completion percentage but to rather point out that completion percentage is a poor way judge the level of intelligence a QB displays when throwing the football. Case in point, David Carr had a high completion percentage. Yet, he still made stupid passes. Matt Schaub has a high completion percentage, yet still makes stupid passes.

All of that said, I am not over-reacting. I have not called for him to be cut. In fact, I have called for him to be IR'd so that he'll be at 100% for next season. I'm not gonna cut him off after one season. However, I am going to be objective when analyzing him. I am not going to play homer with the most important position on the field. I saw an old thread that was bumped awhile ago concerning David Carr that was made when he still played here. As you could imagine, a lot of people had his back and lauded his play. Particularly his ability to complete a large percentage of his passes. Yet, when he got cut, everyone that was pro-Carr came around and looked at him objectively and realized that he wasn't the golden QB that they thought he was. Playing for the team I love doesn't mean that Schaub is without fault.
My post was a reply to the fact that you said Carr also had a high completion percentage. It had nothing to do with their exact comparisons until you broached the subject. You can't just take sentences out of context. Carr completed 5 yard dumpoffs at a high percetage. Schaub has gone downfield. That was the reply.

As far as Schaub, at one point before the injuries he was ranked in the Top 10 in 7 QB categories. Pretty good for a "rookie." He also, besides some obvious mistakes, has run the team pretty well and kept our offense in some games despite having the injuries, etc. No one ever said Schaub is without fault. I'm just judging him on 10 or whatever starts he has actually had in the NFL. If you look at it, along with what we asked him to do when AJ, McKinney and Green went down, I think he has had a pretty good season. Being objective doesn't mean kneejerk reactions after every game. I just think some have gotten into this 6 year rut of complaining where they can't get out. This season has gone downhill but I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture regarding individual players this season.
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Old 12-03-2007   #57
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

I've seen enough.

I see no difference between Carr and Schaub under the center other than Carr wouldn't be missing out on so many games.
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Old 12-03-2007   #58
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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My post was a reply to the fact that you said Carr also had a high completion percentage. It had nothing to do with their exact comparisons until you broached the subject. You can't just take sentences out of context. Carr completed 5 yard dumpoffs at a high percetage. Schaub has gone downfield. That was the reply.
Which is exactly why I was trying to point out that completion percentage is a bad statistic to argue for a QB on. Schaub is better than Carr. Carr has a better completion percentage. Thus, the measurement is flawed.

Quote:
As far as Schaub, at one point before the injuries he was ranked in the Top 10 in 7 QB categories. Pretty good for a "rookie." He also, besides some obvious mistakes, has run the team pretty well and kept our offense in some games despite having the injuries, etc. No one ever said Schaub is without fault. I'm just judging him on 10 or whatever starts he has actually had in the NFL. If you look at it, along with what we asked him to do when AJ, McKinney and Green went down, I think he has had a pretty good season. Being objective doesn't mean kneejerk reactions after every game. I just think some have gotten into this 6 year rut of complaining where they can't get out. This season has gone downhill but I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture regarding individual players this season.
I'm not having a kneejerk reaction. I have been very fair to Matt, given everything that has transpired throughout the course of the season. He has played fairly decent, but only extraordinarily when compared to what we were used to with Carr. I am willing to Schaub some time, not 5 years mind you, but time. I am more than willing to see what he can do next season after what I hope will be a good offseason that will center in on the offensive line. If he spends some time on decision making, some time building up his arm strength, and some time conditioning himself. He may develop into an elite QB. As of now, however, he is not. My main concern is that he has regressed as the season has worn on. Granted, it's hard to argue with the beginning of the season for a guy who is basically a rookie. None-the-less, his performance has really come back down to Earth...and it needs some work. Overall, I would say that Schaub has potential. He needs a lot of work. As a fan, I am willing to give him the time to accomplish said work. By the end of next season, I think we'll know whether he (and Kubiak for that matter) are going to turn the corner or not.
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Old 12-03-2007   #59
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

I didn't feel like reading this whole thread. Here's my 2 cents.

Q: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

A: No. 9 TDs, 9 INT's. That's most likely the last we'll see of him this year. His grade for the season is an "I."

Ephraim Salaam was not brought in to be the starting LT. He was brought in for depth. When he totally misses a block and gets his QB's shoulder dislocated, it's pretty easy to see why.

I don't know what the hell Schaub could have done about it. The Tacks just have our number. They know where the weakness in the O-Line is and they exploit it every time.

Seems to me like when the issue of "durability" comes up as it pertains to the QB play, it's really a Carr homer take in disguise. Troy Aikman wasn't very durable either. That didn't seem to bother the Hall of Fame voters.

I'll take Schaub's fundamental skills over Carr's durability anyday. It wouldn't surprise me if Carr isn't even on an NFL roster next season.
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Old 12-03-2007   #60
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Default Re: Matt Schaub - Have we seen enough?

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Originally Posted by treygar View Post
I've seen enough.

I see no difference between Carr and Schaub under the center other than Carr wouldn't be missing out on so many games.
This is world-class WRONG.

Are you not actually watching the games, or are you just still hungover from yesterday's game?

If I'm pointing fingers at the reason the Texans aren't winning right now, Schaub is pretty far down the list.
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