CAN Schaub take a hit?!

[Texans_Chick]

Originally Posted by Mailman

That sounds like a great quote to you because the hyped player who hasn't played at all (i.e. Quinn) is always given a sky-high ceiling without any consideration of his floor, whereas a guy who's played about half a season at the hardest position on the field is a known quantity incapable of improvement.

Flip the script. Given this organization's sketchy record with regards to personnel decisions, the whiners would just as easily bash the front office for not trading for a quarterback in lieu of two #2s because Texans draft pick are usually busts...am I close? I think so.

Drafting is all about fit.

The Texans in 2007 needed someone at QB who wasn't completely new to the speed and pace and lockerroom stuff of the NFL. They didn't need someone to be the face or abs or whatever of the franchise. Especially someone who's agent was very proud of his client's abilities.

Kubiak got Schaub early enough that they could hit the ground running with preparing him for the scheme. With Quinn, you would have had to wait for him to sign, and then there would have been the who's the man between Rosenfels and Quinn. (and as an aside, just think of the ND alums who would flock to the MBs). They picked Schaub to be the man. He's shown leadership qualities, but he has got injured. Some of the injury is fluke, and some of it isn't.

Sometimes you make decisions and they work, and sometimes they don't. It would have been an interesting season to watch a Texan team that stayed healthy, but that didn't happen. Now they just need to survive.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Specnatz

This thread reads like the who's who of the haters, bashers and people who have disappeared until today, got to love that mind set.

As far as Schaub being gingerbread man, lets see he was knocked out of two games by late hits and blind sided helmet to helmet hits, causing him to miss a game. One of which was a concusion in which rules dictate that if it is severe enough the player must sit out a week and not play.

Some of you make me sick to my stomach how you turn on a player because of things that are beyond his control and to vilify a player because of your personal agendas based upon a draft that is in the past or because of the love fest of some dudes hair.

That'd be me. But not for the reasons you listed.

I'd just like to see us "hit" on a great QB or RB. Just once. I don't really care what college he comes from. I just want to see Bob McNair go out and lay it all on the line.

We're not 2 or 3 seasons into the existence of this franchise. We're pretty far down the line, and all I see around here is the obligatory "Just growing pains..." or "It takes time!" excuses that we've been hearing since Day 1.

I guess the only thing that brings me ANY hope is that AMobi has produced sacks, as a rookie, from an interior position on the line. And, Mario has been generating pressure...I actually saw him use some swim move/hand fighting technique when he got one of those sacks, I was impressed (for a change).

Maybe the DL is getting patched up enough to finally focus on the OL and the DBs.

We are so cursed, though. Having Charles Spencer go out was brutal. Who knows what things would be like with Spencer healthy. This franchise has never selected an OL in the first round. Never.

And I don't see us doing it anytime soon. It would be a shock, frankly.

Like I have said: "We'll see what happens in the off-season. If we go after marginal players, instead of talented ones, and if Richard Smith is still the DC, then that tells me all I need to know."

Matt Schaub is slow. He's slow getting away from center, he's sluggish in the pocket, and he gets blindsided too much. Do we check players for their peripheral vision during a physical?

Sorry. I'm off the Schaub wagon.

I stuck on the Carr wagon long enough to know when a guy is not going to get over the top. And Schaub is a goner. But you guys keep on fighting the good fight. Slurp down the Kool Aid and serve it up to the others. I've had enough of it myself.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I agree. No protection and no consistent pressure will never allow us to run any game plan. The battle is won/lost in the trenches, and after 6 dismal seasons, the Texans FO still can't figure out such fundamental concepts of controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

Actually, the team has spent of ton of time, money and draft picks (DL) on trying to accomplish the goal of solid line play. The problem is that they have done a poor job of identifying the correct players at the correct point in their careers.

[beerlover]

observation from watching Brady pull another rabbit out of the hat vs. the Ravens- he does not get layed out when he's sacked, meaning Brady gets respect, even if the rusher has a clean shot there is no intention to hurt or injure its touch & down. when it concerns Schaub he has taken some really vicious shots that would hurt anyone, like he is a rag doll, he gets no respect from opposing defenses or league officals when it comes to leveling damages/fines. just pure speculation on my part, I'll admit, but if Brady had been slammed down on the turf or hit helmet to helmet that guy would probably be sitting the rest of the season

[threetoedpete]

So we're off the MS band wagon are we ?

I think it's been awhile since some of you played some balls out tackle football. No one would of walked away from the hit that Odom put on MS. No one. Soft ? please. I dunno and I ain't in the room...my guess is it is a third degree sepertion. His arm was under him and Odom fell on it full bore.

So we're now going to part with x number of picks and start fresh again ? Or draft a QB and hope we hit a Brady scenario ? You guys are nuts. David Carr was a prime prospect when he came out. MS has had three bad hits and he is on the verge of entering the DC zone. MS is not a bad QB. What is bad is the total lack of support from the franchise. Gotta have a line. Good enough is not good enough. Getting by will only get your guy killed. Every time you switch QBs from scratch in the NFL you set the franchise back at least three years. All of you who danced on DC's Texan grave...you got what you wanted...It's not the QB. As pointed out above already, MS can move in the pocket. He had a clean chalk board and wasn't a mess when he started. The quetion now is what is the brain trust going to do about this in the off season ? David Carr wan't a disater untill after he had taken 149 hits. Here' hoping that MS lives to get through season three.

What did I tell you the first of the season.. Everyone filling out their little guesses as who we were going to be beat for our "W's". We're going to sweep these guys ...going to win three in a row here.... What did I tell ya ? Better not loose anyone down the streach. This franchise has missed on seven...count them seven, offense tackles in six years. You can't fail like that and not expect the chickens to come home to roost one day. Well it's here. I thought it would be Salaam on the ground. Just a few weeks ago I posted beter get the rookies some reps... Yeah well here you go. The back ups gotta go. We're going to serve them up cold turkey. They haven't had live bullets since August. Bon Appotite NFL. Gonna be a hoot. You make your own luck.

[eriadoc]

It bears mentioning that the other QB here in the past came in and played with a separated shoulder (throwing, at that). It'll be interesting to see how Schaub handles it. Favre is going back out there with an injured opposite shoulder next week, too.

[Texans_Chick]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

Actually, the team has spent of ton of time, money and draft picks (DL) on trying to accomplish the goal of solid line play. The problem is that they have done a poor job of identifying the correct players at the correct point in their careers.

And developing those players. See e.g. Fred Weary, Seth Wand sitting on benches in 2005.

And having a consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball in order to find the right fit. See e.g. every year of the Texans, fining players to get them to crash diet to play zone, and then backing off of that.

And then trying to make those players do things that aren't really their strength, sometimes because of need and sometimes out of ignorance. See e.g. Moving Steve McKinney to right guard in 2006 or arranging the defensive linemen in a way to find a place for Anthony Weaver and his contract to play.

And then playing players because they were a off season signing. See e.g. Victor Fat Freaking Riley at left tackle in 2005 (but not Jordan Black in 2007).

And they have had some really horrible luck, see e.g. Charles Spencer.


The problem is that every team that has good linemen wants to keep them because they know the importance of a line too. So you have to develop your own. And developing your own is difficult when you've had a revolving door at offensive line coach (and people coaching that who had never coached it before or don't have NFL experience coaching it), and a revolving door of scheme and philosophy--primarily zone, or not zone or whatever. Or on the defensive line where you have changed the entire scheme, you have had multiple defensive line coaches, and your defensive scheme is run by someone who has never done it before.

Fortunately, most of the Texans games left are at home, which makes it easier for offensive lines. The Colts game might get a little scary. You'd like to run it a bunch there, but we are running out of healthy running backs.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

Actually, the team has spent of ton of time, money and draft picks (DL) on trying to accomplish the goal of solid line play. The problem is that they have done a poor job of identifying the correct players at the correct point in their careers.

This is true, and I think our D-line is improving. Give these kids another year or so, and I think the dividends will pay off.

But, our o-line still stinks in spite of the patchwork. We have never spent a high round pick on a offensive lineman, and I think we need to refocus ourselves in order to truly build "from the ground up".

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by Texans_Chick

And having a consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball in order to find the right fit. See e.g. every year of the Texans, fining players to get them to crash diet to play zone, and then backing off of that.


The problem is that every team that has good linemen wants to keep them because they know the importance of a line too. So you have to develop your own. And developing your own is difficult when you've had a revolving door at offensive line coach (and people coaching that who had never coached it before or don't have NFL experience coaching it), and a revolving door of scheme and philosophy--primarily zone, or not zone or whatever. Or on the defensive line where you have changed the entire scheme, you have had multiple defensive line coaches, and your defensive scheme is run by someone who has never done it before.

Fortunately, most of the Texans games left are at home, which makes it easier for offensive lines. The Colts game might get a little scary. You'd like to run it a bunch there, but we are running out of healthy running backs.

February 2, 2001: Chris Palmer is hired as the Texans' first offensive coordinator. Palmer spent the previous two seasons as head coach of the expansion Cleveland Browns.

January 30, 2006: Houston hires Troy Calhoun as the offensive coordinator.

Jan. 17, 2007: The Texans promote assistant head coach/offense Mike Sherman to assistant head coach/offensive cooridinator. Sherman replaces Troy Calhoun who left after the season to become head coach at the Air Force Academy.

March 7: The Texans hire Frank Pollack as offensive line coach.

November 2007: Mike Sherman takes the Texas A&M Head coaching position.

The Texans will have and will have had 3 different Offensive coordinators in the last 3 years and two different 0-line coaches and lots of changes on the Defensive side of the ball as well.

How in the hell can you have any consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball if you keep changing coaches. Which is easier to maintain consistency offense or defense when you have changes? It seems we are all in agreement that Richard Smith needs to go. With Sherman gone and with no telling who he takes with him there is going to be yet again turn over on both sides of the ball. I do not know the X's and O's like some do but it seems hiring all these old guys that are retreads is not helping, the team needs young talent that can and want to make a name for themself. Sure it is risky but I think it is a risk worth taking if Kubiak is willing to listen to new ideas.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

This is true, and I think our D-line is improving. Give these kids another year or so, and I think the dividends will pay off.

But, our o-line still stinks in spite of the patchwork. We have never spent a high round pick on a offensive lineman, and I think we need to refocus ourselves in order to truly build "from the ground up".

If you look around the league, the only OL position that requires a high 1st round draft pick is OLT and I agree we need the long term answer there. Of this year's opening day OL, three were Texans' first day picks Pitts (2nd), Weary (3rd), and winston (3rd) with Spencer (3rd) as a guy they wanted to start. The biggest issue with building the total OL through the draft is drafting 1 or 2 every year, not the round they were drafted with the exceptions noted above.

[The1ApplePie]

Boller took some monster hits last night, some of them deep into cheap shot territory, and he still managed to get up and not lie on the field crying.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by The1ApplePie

Boller took some monster hits last night, some of them deep into cheap shot territory, and he still managed to get up and not lie on the field crying.

So you think we should have worked a deal with the Ravens for Boller?

[cuppacoffee]

Regardles of the reason..Kubiak doesn't show a lot of patience with players who can't stay on the field.

Unless your name is Ahman.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Texans_Chick

And developing those players. See e.g. Fred Weary, Seth Wand sitting on benches in 2005.

And having a consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball in order to find the right fit. See e.g. every year of the Texans, fining players to get them to crash diet to play zone, and then backing off of that.

And then trying to make those players do things that aren't really their strength, sometimes because of need and sometimes out of ignorance. See e.g. Moving Steve McKinney to right guard in 2006 or arranging the defensive linemen in a way to find a place for Anthony Weaver and his contract to play.

And then playing players because they were a off season signing. See e.g. Victor Fat Freaking Riley at left tackle in 2005 (but not Jordan Black in 2007).

And they have had some really horrible luck, see e.g. Charles Spencer.


The problem is that every team that has good linemen wants to keep them because they know the importance of a line too. So you have to develop your own. And developing your own is difficult when you've had a revolving door at offensive line coach (and people coaching that who had never coached it before or don't have NFL experience coaching it), and a revolving door of scheme and philosophy--primarily zone, or not zone or whatever. Or on the defensive line where you have changed the entire scheme, you have had multiple defensive line coaches, and your defensive scheme is run by someone who has never done it before.

Fortunately, most of the Texans games left are at home, which makes it easier for offensive lines. The Colts game might get a little scary. You'd like to run it a bunch there, but we are running out of healthy running backs.

Missed this post earlier today...excellent stuff

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by threetoedpete

So we're off the MS band wagon are we ?

I think it's been awhile since some of you played some balls out tackle football. No one would of walked away from the hit that Odom put on MS. No one. Soft ? please. I dunno and I ain't in the room...my guess is it is a third degree sepertion. His arm was under him and Odom fell on it full bore.

So we're now going to part with x number of picks and start fresh again ? Or draft a QB and hope we hit a Brady scenario ? You guys are nuts. David Carr was a prime prospect when he came out. MS has had three bad hits and he is on the verge of entering the DC zone. MS is not a bad QB. What is bad is the total lack of support from the franchise. Gotta have a line. Good enough is not good enough. Getting by will only get your guy killed. Every time you switch QBs from scratch in the NFL you set the franchise back at least three years. All of you who danced on DC's Texan grave...you got what you wanted...It's not the QB. As pointed out above already, MS can move in the pocket. He had a clean chalk board and wasn't a mess when he started. The quetion now is what is the brain trust going to do about this in the off season ? David Carr wan't a disater untill after he had taken 149 hits. Here' hoping that MS lives to get through season three.

What did I tell you the first of the season.. Everyone filling out their little guesses as who we were going to be beat for our "W's". We're going to sweep these guys ...going to win three in a row here.... What did I tell ya ? Better not loose anyone down the streach. This franchise has missed on seven...count them seven, offense tackles in six years. You can't fail like that and not expect the chickens to come home to roost one day. Well it's here. I thought it would be Salaam on the ground. Just a few weeks ago I posted beter get the rookies some reps... Yeah well here you go. The back ups gotta go. We're going to serve them up cold turkey. They haven't had live bullets since August. Bon Appotite NFL. Gonna be a hoot. You make your own luck.

I gotta hand it to ya, you have been on the horn non-stop to get quality o-linemen in here. After last weeks' game & the last 5 years here in houston as well as watching what joe thomas has helped David Anderson & the browns to become has made me a believer. HELP ME UP ON THE BANDWAGON 3 toe!